final version

Apollo rode the lesser azimuths
on a swifter pacing steed.
Artemis gazed through amber panes,

while we epitomized autumn,
ruby veiled maples
with jack-o’-lantern vistas.

As the scions of Demeter,
we negotiated leaf veins
in carotene stained coats.

Camouflaged in nuptial robes,
we communed like monks
in our turmeric vestments.

Our curry flavored mouths
exchanged lamb stew breaths.
We were like wings of one crow

or larval twins sharing a chrysalis,
imaginal discs of what could be.
No scattered flock of doubt,

as we derided raucus geese
that wing in requisite echelons,
retreating to clement latitudes.

I split pine for the hearth;
she gathered stygian blooms
for our Thanksgiving table.

The sun dialed the hour winter
and she was repossessed,
blushing pomegranate.

I entered darkling torpor
within her obsidian boot,
until we became vernal again.

Hes/bil/gre/tru/mil edit final version 4.2: Thanks for the help guys

(08-09-2013, 07:34 PM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  Apollo rode lesser azimuths,
his quadriga streaming hues,
while Luna upheld amber façade This is an incredibly wordy verse. While I don't in any way support dumbing down, could you be a touch more concise about what is literally happening here?

and we epitomized autumn,
vermillion veiled maples
with jack-o’-lantern vistas. Nice mingling of gentle ("veiled maples") and sinister ("jack-o'-lantern") here, though is "vermillion" needed?

Demeter’s scions,
we negotiated leaf veins,
pelages stained carotene. Should "carotene" and "pelages" be the other way around, seeing as pelage is fur and carotene is a pigment?

Rakish, our camouflage
in ochre sun vestments, Is "ochre" needed?
ersatz monks in turmeric robes.

Mouths flavored curry,
exchanging lamb stew breaths,
two wings of one crow Don't most, if not all, crows have two wings? With that in mind, why is this line significant?

within shared chrysalis,
imaginal discs of what could be.
No scattered flock of doubt, I'll be honest: I have no idea what you're talking about. Though sometimes a phrase or image will emerge as quite potent, a lot of this poem reads like word jumble to me. I have a vague idea that it's about ancient myth-followers doing something or other, but beyond there I'm lost. "Lamb stew breaths" is a good, strong, sensual image, but its contextual purpose baffles me. It's not a part of a narrative so much as an alluring oddity randomly floating about.

as we chortled at wild geese
that honked the obligatory echelon, Is an "echelon" something that can be "honked", not to mention obligatorily? The word as I understand it means rank or class, i.e. "the upper echelons", so it would be like writing "wild geese/that honked the obligatory captain".
migrating to southern latitudes.

I split pine for the hearth;
she gathered stygian blooms
for our Thanksgiving table. Great verse, because it's concise and uncluttered.

Sun-dialed the hour winter This making a verb of "sun-dial" amuses me
and she was repossessed,
blushing pomegranate.

I entered darkling torpor
within her obsidian boot,
until we become vernal again. Should that be "became", seeing as a past tense has previously been established.

The second half of the poem is better than the first, because it's slightly less muddled and dense. Though difficult words are fine, lumping them together so densely cripples rhythm, which your use of short lines seems to want to create. Critique is, of course, JMHO. Thank you for the read

hi christopher. i have to say i'm not equipped enough to give you a good piece of feedback on the poem. i've mentioned a few things but even now, i'm not sure my points are that valid because as i say, the word play feels to bee beyond me. individually you have a lot of good images. the poem as whol feels like a set of snapshots of religious festivals (all except the geese stanza )

thanks for the reads and for all the feedback i've seen you give :J:

(08-09-2013, 07:34 PM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  Apollo rode lesser azimuths,
his quadriga streaming hues,
while Luna upheld amber façade i need a better education and a lot of google to understand this stanza

and we epitomized autumn,
vermillion veiled maples
with jack-o’-lantern vistas. on it's own i think this stanza is more accessible for the reader to comprehend, i like the image of endless lanterns

Demeter’s scions,
we negotiated leaf veins,
pelages stained carotene.

Rakish, our camouflage
in ochre sun vestments,
ersatz monks in turmeric robes.

Mouths flavored curry, would curry flavoured mouths be easier to comprehend,
exchanging lamb stew breaths, i love this line, though i'm not sure it works to well with the curry line
two wings of one crow

within shared chrysalis,
imaginal discs of what could be.
No scattered flock of doubt,

as we chortled at wild geese
that honked the obligatory echelon, is the a [in] missing
migrating to southern latitudes.

I split pine for the hearth;
she gathered stygian blooms
for our Thanksgiving table. this feels out of character with the poem because of it's clarity

Sun-dialed the hour winter
and she was repossessed,
blushing pomegranate.

I entered darkling torpor
within her obsidian boot,
until we become vernal again.

Heslopian, thank you very much for taking the time to read my poem and especially for the in depth analysis and astute observations/suggestions. As a watercolor artist, I must confess that I do come off a bit strong with the color and imagery. Just look at my avatar, ha ha! So I tried to paint the autumn sun and moon in that first stanza, as the angle of the sun’s ecliptic is lower, light refracted (by that horse-drawn chariot ;^} ) and wavelengths reflected by the moon are longer (orange). Vermillion and ocher are those watercolor brushes flourishing again. Ochre is definitely not needed, as turmeric is used to stain the Buddhist monk robes. The carotene pelage swap is right on. I used a little archaic-speak there. Each of the two lovers is one of the wings of a single crow; to recapitulate the shared breathes metaphor in terms of unity. I will examine my wording there. An echelon is also a V-formation of migration and aircraft flight. I laugh at geese honking myself and they do seem obligated to migrate in that noisy geometrical fashion, but I shall look at that section again. ‘Became’ is right. Chrysalis/imaginal disc part is Lepidoptera biology and really what this piece is all about. The mythology captures the season, but also the annual cycle of life for certain creatures. Again, much obliged!

---

(08-10-2013, 07:39 AM)billy Wrote:  hi christopher. i have to say i'm not equipped enough to give you a good piece of feedback on the poem. i've mentioned a few things but even now, i'm not sure my points are that valid because as i say, the word play feels to bee beyond me. individually you have a lot of good images. the poem as whol feels like a set of snapshots of religious festivals (all except the geese stanza )

thanks for the reads and for all the feedback i've seen you give :J:

(08-09-2013, 07:34 PM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  Apollo rode lesser azimuths,
his quadriga streaming hues,
while Luna upheld amber façade i need a better education and a lot of google to understand this stanza

and we epitomized autumn,
vermillion veiled maples
with jack-o’-lantern vistas. on it's own i think this stanza is more accessible for the reader to comprehend, i like the image of endless lanterns

Demeter’s scions,
we negotiated leaf veins,
pelages stained carotene.

Rakish, our camouflage
in ochre sun vestments,
ersatz monks in turmeric robes.

Mouths flavored curry, would curry flavoured mouths be easier to comprehend,
exchanging lamb stew breaths, i love this line, though i'm not sure it works to well with the curry line
two wings of one crow

within shared chrysalis,
imaginal discs of what could be.
No scattered flock of doubt,

as we chortled at wild geese
that honked the obligatory echelon, is the a [in] missing
migrating to southern latitudes.

I split pine for the hearth;
she gathered stygian blooms
for our Thanksgiving table. this feels out of character with the poem because of it's clarity

Sun-dialed the hour winter
and she was repossessed,
blushing pomegranate.

I entered darkling torpor
within her obsidian boot,
until we become vernal again.

Billy, you make very good points, I really appreciate the read and commentary. Some of your valid coments are addressed in my response to Heslopian. The curry swap is a good one and I love this spice in my lamb stew, so they may be alright together. There is a series of autumn rites herein (so you are correct) and it relates to nature renewal and seasonal-dependent biology. That's where the geese and Thanksgiving come in too. For Monarch butterflies, Thanksgiving is akin to their last supper, ha ha! Truly grateful for your time, patience and insight!/Chris

i wish everyone accepted feedback like you do :J:

i did enjoy the explanation to jack of the crows wings

(08-10-2013, 09:04 AM)billy Wrote:  i wish everyone accepted feedback like you do :J:

i did enjoy the explanation to jack of the crows wings

Oh, I am honored, you two did a great read!

(08-09-2013, 07:34 PM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  Apollo rode lesser azimuths,
his chariot streaming hues,
while Luna upheld amber façade This is a very dense stanza - lots of complex imagery going on, which is fine, but I think you could pace this differently so it's not such an onslaught on the senses.

and we epitomized autumn,
vermillion veiled maples
with jack-o’-lantern vistas. Now this is better, beautifully coloured.

Demeter’s scions,
we negotiated leaf veins
with carotene stained pelages. Good again, but lots going on.

Rakish, our camouflage
of sun-washed vestments,
ersatz monks in turmeric robes. More beautiful colouring, this is very intense

Curry flavored mouths,
exchanging lamb stew breaths, This is very intense, but I find the change in tone hear a bit difficult to reconcile with the start of the poem.
each a wing of one crow

within shared chrysalis,
imaginal discs of what could be.
No scattered flock of doubt,

as we chortled at honking geese
that wing obligatory echelons,
migrating to southern latitudes.

I split pine for the hearth;
she gathered stygian blooms
for our Thanksgiving table. My favourite stanza. I sense more space here.

Sun-dialed the hour winter
and she was repossessed,
blushing pomegranate.

I entered darkling torpor
within her obsidian boot,
until we became vernal again.

Hes/bil version 2 edit

Well done, Chris, I like this very much - you have a wonderful ear for sound, and a great sense of colour. Sorry for the lack of detailed textual critique, but my comments are more about the general style.

The disarmingly simple title gives way to a style which is incredibly dense and sensory - lots of colour, smell, taste. I think you, like myself, find the sound of certain words more appealing than their sense or connotations - I always have the temptation to write just stanzas of different combinations of beautiful words, regardless of their meaning. It's useful to have this sense, I feel, but these beautiful words are often only as stunning as their surroundings are ordinary. The word 'turmeric', for example, is wonderful: but it becomes much less striking when surrounded by 'sun-washed', 'curry', 'vestments', 'ersatz'. It's quite overwhelming - a bit of an onslaught on the senses as I noticed above, which can be wonderful, but I think needs to be moderated by a sense of pace.

I hope this is helpful - I like your style, and think this has some great potential. My comments are merely my own opinion.

(08-10-2013, 09:59 PM)EileenGreay Wrote:  

(08-09-2013, 07:34 PM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  Apollo rode lesser azimuths,
his chariot streaming hues,
while Luna upheld amber façade This is a very dense stanza - lots of complex imagery going on, which is fine, but I think you could pace this differently so it's not such an onslaught on the senses.

and we epitomized autumn,
vermillion veiled maples
with jack-o’-lantern vistas. Now this is better, beautifully coloured.

Demeter’s scions,
we negotiated leaf veins
with carotene stained pelages. Good again, but lots going on.

Rakish, our camouflage
of sun-washed vestments,
ersatz monks in turmeric robes. More beautiful colouring, this is very intense

Curry flavored mouths,
exchanging lamb stew breaths, This is very intense, but I find the change in tone hear a bit difficult to reconcile with the start of the poem.
each a wing of one crow

within shared chrysalis,
imaginal discs of what could be.
No scattered flock of doubt,

as we chortled at honking geese
that wing obligatory echelons,
migrating to southern latitudes.

I split pine for the hearth;
she gathered stygian blooms
for our Thanksgiving table. My favourite stanza. I sense more space here.

Sun-dialed the hour winter
and she was repossessed,
blushing pomegranate.

I entered darkling torpor
within her obsidian boot,
until we became vernal again.

Hes/bil version 2 edit

Well done, Chris, I like this very much - you have a wonderful ear for sound, and a great sense of colour. Sorry for the lack of detailed textual critique, but my comments are more about the general style.

The disarmingly simple title gives way to a style which is incredibly dense and sensory - lots of colour, smell, taste. I think you, like myself, find the sound of certain words more appealing than their sense or connotations - I always have the temptation to write just stanzas of different combinations of beautiful words, regardless of their meaning. It's useful to have this sense, I feel, but these beautiful words are often only as stunning as their surroundings are ordinary. The word 'turmeric', for example, is wonderful: but it becomes much less striking when surrounded by 'sun-washed', 'curry', 'vestments', 'ersatz'. It's quite overwhelming - a bit of an onslaught on the senses as I noticed above, which can be wonderful, but I think needs to be moderated by a sense of pace.

I hope this is helpful - I like your style, and think this has some great potential. My comments are merely my own opinion.

Your comments are wonderful and well received Eileen. Your opinions are valid. You are absolutely correct with respect to my style and approach in composing my poetry. I 'paint' my lines; and my stanzas are often built in layers. My word choice is for sound alone in many instances. I love to arrange words in new ways to achieve different resonances and visuals. Not necessarily always successfully, ha ha. Results are highly visual and sensory. More than likely, my literary technique mirrors my painting methodology. I do have to learn to corral things, but I love the happy accidents that befall certain poems. I will definitely weed through some of those word combinations as you astutely suggest. Many times my pallet has too many hues. By the way, I love fairy tales and hence the title, but it is actually more closely linked to the penultimate line, as well as one of the poem’s themes that no one has caught onto. Thank you so much for your time, observations and wisdom! I am ecstatic that you liked it! Cheers/Chris

Let me know if 'nuptial vestments' better links that stanza to the 'exchanged... breaths' in the next stanza.

(08-09-2013, 07:34 PM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  version 3

Apollo rode lesser azimuths,
his chariot streaming hues,
while Luna espoused amber façade

opening with Apollo and then using Luna instead of Diana is a little annoying. Also, espoused it just too cumbersome and clinical plus it makes the line way to sibilant. Skipping an article here makes it feel mre like "faux poetry" than poetry.

and we epitomized autumn,
vermillion veiled maples
with jack-o’-lantern vistas.

alliteration should really be used sparingly - especially the uncommon "v". "Vermillion veiled" feels too contrived, so maybe some change there. jack-'o-lantern vistas is strong, the best so far in the poem.

Demeter’s scions,
we negotiated leaf veins
with carotene stained pelages.

how much stronger would it have been for the narrator to introduce himself and his companion(s) as Demeter's Scions. "We are the scions of Demeter" or "We were the scions of Demeter" "coats" would be nicer than "pelages"

Rakish, our camouflage
of nuptial vestments,
ersatz monks in turmeric robes.

you are heavily modifying everything and pointlessly complicating the language. If it isn't contributing to sonics or meaning, the simplest choice is always best. I read this as you saying turmeric robes are nuptial vestments. I would pick one metaphor and stick with it here, though either would be fine.

Curry flavored mouths,
exchanging lamb stew breaths,
each a wing of one crow



within shared chrysalis,
imaginal discs of what could be.

You have a fragment here. I don't know why your narrator is mentioning these tasty mouths though I suspect he is dining on some "mouth and lamb stew". "each a wing . . ." lacks a antecedent, or rather has a confused antecedent. Are the mouths actually wings? Are the breaths actually wings? The world will never know. "within shared . . " could refer to any number of things and there really isn't a clue as to what is trapped in this chrysalis. The mouths? The crow wings? The breath?


No scattered flock of doubt,

as we derided honking geese
that wing obligatory echelons,
migrating to southern latitudes.

geese honk, no sense pointing it out. I don't think you can wing an echelon. Also, it is unclear if this is the same wing referred to earlier.

I split pine for the hearth;
she gathered stygian blooms
for our Thanksgiving table.

Sun-dialed the hour winter
and she was repossessed,
blushing pomegranate.

"Sun-dialed" works fine as a verb - - - if only there was a noun!!

I entered darkling torpor
within her obsidian boot,
until we became vernal again.

Hes/bil/grey edit version 3: Thanks for the input guys

As a whole, it reads very, very contrived. The language feels forced and unnatural, the narrative so mixed as to be almost impenetrable. You are better off developing a strong metaphor or image than heading pell mell into flock after flock of overmodified construct without justification.

I do think this shows evidence of strong writing and vocabulary, but it needs some tightening.

Thanks for posting.

Thanks for stopping in to read and comment Milo. I can't argue with many of your points. Even a penchant for Roman women should not have led me to paired Luna with Apollo. Much obliged to you for catching this overlook. I could reword the scion's and lose one of the v-descriptors. I was going for skins/pelts with pelages. I could make it simpler (dumb it down), use words with no interest in either sound or meaning, ha ha... I need alternate punctuation to separate the breaths and wings or an intervening line between them. They are obviously not wings sharing breaths or wings in a cocoon. They are linked by metaphor for unity as is the shared chrysalis. Purely literal poetry is a bore, but one can certainly strive for clarity and grammar. The geese have gotten more than one reader's gander. Lepidoptera (adults of larvae) cannot survive a killing frost. This was a species that does not migrate, hence their contempt for the geese. Geese can wing in echelon ( from the online dictionary). If you don't accept it, tough nuts. Merriam Webster trumps Milo in my world. However, I will probably simplify this with your suggestions and see how it sounds. I appreciate your time and thoughts. Cheers/Chris

(08-13-2013, 04:38 AM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  Thanks for stopping in to read and comment Milo. I can't argue with many of your points. Even a penchant for Roman women should not have led me to paired Luna with Apollo. Much obliged to you for catching this overlook. I could reword the scion's and lose one of the v-descriptors. I was going for skins/pelts with pelages. I could make it simpler (dumb it down), use words with no interest in either sound or meaning, ha ha... I need alternate punctuation to separate the breaths and wings or an intervening line between them. They are obviously not wings sharing breaths or wings in a cocoon. They are linked by metaphor for unity as is the shared chrysalis. Purely literal poetry is a bore, but one can certainly strive for clarity and grammar. The geese have gotten more than one reader's gander. Lepidoptera (adults of larvae) cannot survive a killing frost. This was a species that does not migrate, hence their contempt for the geese. Geese can wing in echelon ( from the online dictionary). If you don't accept it, tough nuts. Merriam Webster trumps Milo in my world. However, I will probably simplify this with your suggestions and see how it sounds. I appreciate your time and thoughts. Cheers/Chris

A note one M-W: They are notoriously lazy as I have proved on this site several times but in this instance they are correct. Still, Geese winging /in/ echelon is not the same as geese winging /an/ echelon in a poem that seems to skip all articles but not preps the article is assumed, not only of many possible preps. I understood the skins/pelts, coats means the same but you gain a double meaning and some sonics and lose the obfuscation.


looking forward to the revision.

---

(08-13-2013, 04:55 AM)milo Wrote:  

(08-13-2013, 04:38 AM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  Thanks for stopping in to read and comment Milo. I can't argue with many of your points. Even a penchant for Roman women should not have led me to paired Luna with Apollo. Much obliged to you for catching this overlook. I could reword the scion's and lose one of the v-descriptors. I was going for skins/pelts with pelages. I could make it simpler (dumb it down), use words with no interest in either sound or meaning, ha ha... I need alternate punctuation to separate the breaths and wings or an intervening line between them. They are obviously not wings sharing breaths or wings in a cocoon. They are linked by metaphor for unity as is the shared chrysalis. Purely literal poetry is a bore, but one can certainly strive for clarity and grammar. The geese have gotten more than one reader's gander. Lepidoptera (adults of larvae) cannot survive a killing frost. This was a species that does not migrate, hence their contempt for the geese. Geese can wing in echelon ( from the online dictionary). If you don't accept it, tough nuts. Merriam Webster trumps Milo in my world. However, I will probably simplify this with your suggestions and see how it sounds. I appreciate your time and thoughts. Cheers/Chris

A note one M-W: They are notoriously lazy as I have proved on this site several times but in this instance they are correct. Still, Geese winging /in/ echelon is not the same as geese winging /an/ echelon in a poem that seems to skip all articles but not preps the article is assumed, not only of many possible preps. I understood the skins/pelts, coats means the same but you gain a double meaning and some sonics and lose the obfuscation.


looking forward to the revision.

actually, after re-reading, I like geese flying in echelon as well, it would benefit from either an article or prep though, it causes the reading to stumble as it is.

Version 4 and Milo-ed a bit!

PS: Thanks for the reward Milo. I will try to live up to that title of 'Rat Catcher!'

just a couple quick points while they are still fresh in my mind.

(08-09-2013, 07:34 PM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  version 4

Apollo rode the lesser azimuths,
his chariot streaming hues, Dead stop right here and start the next line with "Diana"
while Diana gazed out amber panes "out" or "through"?

and we epitomized autumn,
ruby veiled maples
with jack-o’-lantern vistas.

We were scions of Demeter,
negotiating leaf veins
with carotene stained coats.

Consider:
"We negotiated leaf veins
with carotene stained coats
as scions of Demeter"

actually, your way may be better as I like the strenght of stating "We were scions of Demeter" but maybe you can find a way to meld the two.

Rakish, in our camouflage
of nuptial vestments, we communed
like monks in turmeric robes.

I would definitely kill "rakish" allowing you to state"

"Camouflaged in nuptial vestments
we communed
like monks in turmeric robes"


With curry flavored mouths,
we exchanged lamb stew breaths;
as if each were a wing of one crow

or twin larvae sharing a chrysalis,
imaginal discs of what could be.
No scattered flock of doubt,

as we derided honking geese
that wing in obligatory echelons,
migrating to southern latitudes.

I split pine for the hearth;
she gathered stygian blooms
for our Thanksgiving table.

The sun dialed the hour winter
and she was repossessed,
blushing pomegranate.

I entered darkling torpor
within her obsidian boot,
until we became vernal again.

Hes/bil/gre/mil edit version 4: Thanks for the input guys

I like the direction you are heading with this one, I will be back with more later if I don't forget. It is good to see someone that is not afraid to revise.

I was waiting for you pounce on rakish, that was my last cool word! I am going to keep at this with your mentoring, as I had wanted to on your new forum. So, I do appreciate your efforts. To lend a bit more meaning to the poem. There are several braided themes herein, perhaps too many. The title reflects both the eternal cycle of butterfly reproduction and fairy tale with the glass boot (Cinderella). Her time restraint, along with Persephone's and the butterfly's all parallel one another. I have placed these metaphore's on a canvas of Autumn, associated rites and holiday. The lovers are a butterfly species that must become domant before the frost, if they are to continue next season. An interloper prevents them from sleeping dormant together. Once a lepidopteran larval is in pupal stage, these amazing zones of tissue called imaginal discs individually differentiate into a respective leg or eye or wing part, etc. I love the imaginal/imagination play here. So, don't take them away from me! Heading back to the stanza war zone now sir!

(08-13-2013, 08:04 AM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  I was waiting for you pounce on rakish, that was my last cool word! I am going to keep at this with your mentoring, as I had wanted to on your new forum. So, I do appreciate your efforts. To lend a bit more meaning to the poem. There are several braided themes herein, perhaps too many. The title reflects both the eternal cycle of butterfly reproduction and fairy tale with the glass boot (Cinderella). Her time restraint, along with Persephone's and the butterfly's all parallel one another. I have placed these metaphore's on a canvas of Autumn, associated rites and holiday. The lovers are a butterfly species that must become domant before the frost, if they are to continue next season. An interloper prevents them from sleeping dormant together. Once a lepidopteran larval is in pupal stage, these amazing zones of tissue called imaginal discs individually differentiate into a respective leg or eye or wing part, etc. I love the imaginal/imagination play here. So, don't take them away from me! Heading back to the stanza war zone now sir!

It isn't that I don't like rakish, btw, it is that it is holding back the greatness of "Camouflaged in nuptial vestments" forcing the rather weakish "in our camouflage" so rakish, imo, has to be sacrificed for the good of all.

Also, I just had a thought, and not that I want to force more work on you, but it seems to me that this would capture the immediacy much better if it were in present tense. Maybe run 2 revisions parallel so we can see both at the same time.

Ha ha, right. Yes, that is a good idea and exercise. I will put this down for a day or so and then start on the present tense version. Again Milo, thank you for your time and help. It has been a fruitful venture for me!

---

(08-13-2013, 10:17 AM)trueenigma Wrote:  Hi there, christopher,
just a quick drive-by as the revisions seen to be coming along nicely, and Milo seems to have /most/ of it covered.



Apollo rode the lesser azimuths,
his chariot streaming hues.

Drop hues, or describe the hues. his chariot streaming is stronger than his chariot streaming hues. Hues is just weakening the verb here. It reads like his chariot streaming colors. Bleh.

We were scions of Demeter,

I think this would be stronger with the definite article in place of were:

We, The Scions of Demeter

Then you could also drop the gerund, and strengthen the verb in the following line:

negotiated leaf veins


as if each were a wing of one crow

or twin larvae sharing a chrysalis,

Are /each/ a pair of twins, or a half of the /pair/?:

or larvae twins sharing a..



as we derided honking geese

In all these generations of poetry, have we not yet found a /new/ way to say /honking/ geese?

that wing in obligatory echelons,

Obligatory serves no purpose but to force me to choke on my tongue.

Great job revising so far.

TrueE, thank you very much. Those are all reasonable suggestions and I will run through them all for my next edit over the next few days. Agreed, Milo had me marching to his drummer and I was gasping fo air for a while. I appreciate and respect every one's suggestions.

Incorporated almost all of you points now TruE, yea!

(08-13-2013, 10:17 AM)trueenigma Wrote:  Hi there, christopher,
just a quick drive-by as the revisions seen to be coming along nicely, and Milo seems to have /most/ of it covered.



Apollo rode the lesser azimuths,
his chariot streaming hues.

Drop hues, or describe the hues. his chariot streaming is stronger than his chariot streaming hues. Hues is just weakening the verb here. It reads like his chariot streaming colors. Bleh.

We were scions of Demeter,

I think this would be stronger with the definite article in place of were:

We, The Scions of Demeter

Then you could also drop the gerund, and strengthen the verb in the following line:

negotiated leaf veins


as if each were a wing of one crow

or twin larvae sharing a chrysalis,

Are /each/ a pair of twins, or a half of the /pair/?:

or larvae twins sharing a..



as we derided honking geese

In all these generations of poetry, have we not yet found a /new/ way to say /honking/ geese?

that wing in obligatory echelons,

Obligatory serves no purpose but to force me to choke on my tongue.

Great job revising so far.

Raucus geese works!

(08-13-2013, 03:03 AM)milo Wrote:  

(08-09-2013, 07:34 PM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  version 3

Apollo rode lesser azimuths,
his chariot streaming hues,
while Luna espoused amber façade

opening with Apollo and then using Luna instead of Diana is a little annoying. Also, espoused it just too cumbersome and clinical plus it makes the line way to sibilant. Skipping an article here makes it feel mre like "faux poetry" than poetry.

and we epitomized autumn,
vermillion veiled maples
with jack-o’-lantern vistas.

alliteration should really be used sparingly - especially the uncommon "v". "Vermillion veiled" feels too contrived, so maybe some change there. jack-'o-lantern vistas is strong, the best so far in the poem.

Demeter’s scions,
we negotiated leaf veins
with carotene stained pelages.

how much stronger would it have been for the narrator to introduce himself and his companion(s) as Demeter's Scions. "We are the scions of Demeter" or "We were the scions of Demeter" "coats" would be nicer than "pelages"

Rakish, our camouflage
of nuptial vestments,
ersatz monks in turmeric robes.

you are heavily modifying everything and pointlessly complicating the language. If it isn't contributing to sonics or meaning, the simplest choice is always best. I read this as you saying turmeric robes are nuptial vestments. I would pick one metaphor and stick with it here, though either would be fine.

Curry flavored mouths,
exchanging lamb stew breaths,
each a wing of one crow



within shared chrysalis,
imaginal discs of what could be.

You have a fragment here. I don't know why your narrator is mentioning these tasty mouths though I suspect he is dining on some "mouth and lamb stew". "each a wing . . ." lacks a antecedent, or rather has a confused antecedent. Are the mouths actually wings? Are the breaths actually wings? The world will never know. "within shared . . " could refer to any number of things and there really isn't a clue as to what is trapped in this chrysalis. The mouths? The crow wings? The breath?


No scattered flock of doubt,

as we derided honking geese
that wing obligatory echelons,
migrating to southern latitudes.

geese honk, no sense pointing it out. I don't think you can wing an echelon. Also, it is unclear if this is the same wing referred to earlier.

I split pine for the hearth;
she gathered stygian blooms
for our Thanksgiving table.

Sun-dialed the hour winter
and she was repossessed,
blushing pomegranate.

"Sun-dialed" works fine as a verb - - - if only there was a noun!!

I entered darkling torpor
within her obsidian boot,
until we became vernal again.

Hes/bil/grey edit version 3: Thanks for the input guys

As a whole, it reads very, very contrived. The language feels forced and unnatural, the narrative so mixed as to be almost impenetrable. You are better off developing a strong metaphor or image than heading pell mell into flock after flock of overmodified construct without justification.

I do think this shows evidence of strong writing and vocabulary, but it needs some tightening.

Thanks for posting.

Hey Milo, my wife said that I needed to use Artemis as my moon goddess to be consistent with Apollo and Demeter!

(08-24-2013, 06:21 AM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  

(08-13-2013, 03:03 AM)milo Wrote:  

(08-09-2013, 07:34 PM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  version 3

Apollo rode lesser azimuths,
his chariot streaming hues,
while Luna espoused amber façade

opening with Apollo and then using Luna instead of Diana is a little annoying. Also, espoused it just too cumbersome and clinical plus it makes the line way to sibilant. Skipping an article here makes it feel mre like "faux poetry" than poetry.

and we epitomized autumn,
vermillion veiled maples
with jack-o’-lantern vistas.

alliteration should really be used sparingly - especially the uncommon "v". "Vermillion veiled" feels too contrived, so maybe some change there. jack-'o-lantern vistas is strong, the best so far in the poem.

Demeter’s scions,
we negotiated leaf veins
with carotene stained pelages.

how much stronger would it have been for the narrator to introduce himself and his companion(s) as Demeter's Scions. "We are the scions of Demeter" or "We were the scions of Demeter" "coats" would be nicer than "pelages"

Rakish, our camouflage
of nuptial vestments,
ersatz monks in turmeric robes.

you are heavily modifying everything and pointlessly complicating the language. If it isn't contributing to sonics or meaning, the simplest choice is always best. I read this as you saying turmeric robes are nuptial vestments. I would pick one metaphor and stick with it here, though either would be fine.

Curry flavored mouths,
exchanging lamb stew breaths,
each a wing of one crow



within shared chrysalis,
imaginal discs of what could be.

You have a fragment here. I don't know why your narrator is mentioning these tasty mouths though I suspect he is dining on some "mouth and lamb stew". "each a wing . . ." lacks a antecedent, or rather has a confused antecedent. Are the mouths actually wings? Are the breaths actually wings? The world will never know. "within shared . . " could refer to any number of things and there really isn't a clue as to what is trapped in this chrysalis. The mouths? The crow wings? The breath?


No scattered flock of doubt,

as we derided honking geese
that wing obligatory echelons,
migrating to southern latitudes.

geese honk, no sense pointing it out. I don't think you can wing an echelon. Also, it is unclear if this is the same wing referred to earlier.

I split pine for the hearth;
she gathered stygian blooms
for our Thanksgiving table.

Sun-dialed the hour winter
and she was repossessed,
blushing pomegranate.

"Sun-dialed" works fine as a verb - - - if only there was a noun!!

I entered darkling torpor
within her obsidian boot,
until we became vernal again.

Hes/bil/grey edit version 3: Thanks for the input guys

As a whole, it reads very, very contrived. The language feels forced and unnatural, the narrative so mixed as to be almost impenetrable. You are better off developing a strong metaphor or image than heading pell mell into flock after flock of overmodified construct without justification.

I do think this shows evidence of strong writing and vocabulary, but it needs some tightening.

Thanks for posting.

Hey Milo, my wife said that I needed to use Artemis as my moon goddess to be consistent with Apollo and Demeter!

A a a a a a and your wife is right, but I suppose she already told you that a couple times today. How are the edits coming?