Remembering a walk beneath the pier,
supported by posts like Grecian columns
rotting deep within a silent forest,
then when I stepped onto the beach beyond,
where huts in the distance blurred in a light
that mocked their wooden objectivity,
I realise that I don't need Jesus.
Dead men and women have done more for me
than Jesus, the saints, and all of their troops.
Poets gave hope when Sunday school could not.

I writhe in nature, like a Romantic,
record its tensions, like an Imagist,
lament its silence, like Confessionals.
Poetry is what lies beyond mankind,
poems the violent oneness with God.
They are the birth, death and resurrection.

(04-30-2013, 08:30 PM)Heslopian Wrote:  Remembering a walk beneath the pier, <<< Intuitively: I remember a walk...
supported by posts like Grecian columns <<< supported?
rotting deep within a silent forest, <<< fine with me. but then full stop?
then how I stepped onto the beach beyond, <<< I stepped onto ...
where huts in the distance blurred in a light <<< what light? moon?
that mocked their wooden objectivity,
I realise that I don't need Jesus. <<< ok with me, this reader, but how come the jump?
Dead men and women have done more for me
than Jesus, the saints, and all of their troops. <<< I like these two lines, not getting them maybe, notwithstanding, ;-)
Poets gave hope when Sunday school could not. <<< I like that.

I writhe in nature, like a Romantic, <<< I don't know what to do with "writhe in sth."
record its tensions, like an Imagist, <<< Oh god: Imagists! that's heavy. You are not wrong, I just have to look it up.
lament its silence, like Confessionals.
Poetry is what lies beyond mankind,
poems the violent oneness with God. <<< I like these two lines. I still must find out why.
They are the birth, death and resurrection.

Dear Heslop:

I like this over your rough stuff. I know, that life is rougher than your lines here. You proved that before.
There is a sentiment in this: Celtic (maybe unaware), Yeats-like, I like.
So, I don't know what to say, but I liked you to recite it (to add depth to it).

Thank you for this.

serge
-------
more for me than Jesus: that is fascinating. (Me thinking he was a crucified liar tortued to death by assholes.) Butthat aside: Interesting but not yet moving . ,-) Forgive me. I like, how you did that.

I actually meant the light of the sun in L5, and though I see your point about a full stop after L4, L1 - 7 are all one sentence. I'll see if I can make those lines more concise. Thank you for your kind and honest feedback, serge

(04-30-2013, 08:30 PM)Heslopian Wrote:  Remembering a walk beneath the pier, this starts out as perfect and unobtrusive IP, I wonder if you considered writing this one as a sonnet?
supported by posts like Grecian columns I have a tough time envisioning grecian columns supporting a pier(?) this has to be a pretty fancy pier!!
rotting deep within a silent forest,
I was a little confused here. Is the pier rotting or the columns? and, also, a pier in a forest, DEEP within a forest? seems strange.

then how I stepped onto the beach beyond,
ok, grammatically, you are comma splicing and you do it a few times in this poem, I am not sure what the purpose is. I also think "how" might be the wrong word.
where huts in the distance blurred in a light
that mocked their wooden objectivity,
this line is perfect ip again, also rather clever
I realise that I don't need Jesus.
Dead men and women have done more for me
than Jesus, the saints, and all of their troops.

it is weird to contrast dead men and women with . . . well, pretty much dead men
Poets gave hope when Sunday school could not.

I writhe in nature, like a Romantic,
record its tensions, like an Imagist,
lament its silence, like Confessionals.
Poetry is what lies beyond mankind,
poems the violent oneness with God.

this second half seems so much weaker than the first, you spend too much time preaching instead of showing if you know what I mean.
They are the birth, death and resurrection.

all-in-all, an interesting read. I prefer the parts with the specifics and the imagery although there might be some confusion in your images. There is something awkwardly self serving in a poem telling us /what/ poems and poetry is/are if you know what I mean.

milo

What do you mean by comma splicing? Thank you for your thorough, honest and insightful feedback, Milo Poems about poetry can be dictatorial!

me again. ;-)

let me add two remarks:

"supported by posts like Grecian columns "
here i stumble over "like".
What I read is: supported by Grecian urns (a Keats ref of course: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~keith/poems/urn.html)

"mocked their wooden objectivity"
I like this line a lot, because it is true. ;-)

Please, bin at will, but I as a reader don't need the "likes" in S2

And one final remark: I (because of the title of the poem) miss a reference to George Berkeley.

cheers
Serge

Thank you for your further comments, serge, they're very much appreciated

I don't care that much for appreciation, but I appreciate you for appreciating me.

And besides that: I like your style. :-)

cheers

serge ;-)

I mean appreciation is very much like Mississippi.
Hard to spell. But then, I love Muddy Waters (which is what Mississippi means in Algonquian)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algonquian_languages
If you are East Coastish , you'd know them.

---

or it or that ;-)

been having some isp problems so not been able to get on for more than a few mins at a time i think the first part of the 1st stanza could be better worded. i left some feedback in the poem. i get the sense or lack of serenity re god but wonder if using him and poetry in such a way works well. still, the poem has jack stamped on it and your originality shines through. most of my remarks are nits that you could remedy or not as you see fit :0

(04-30-2013, 08:30 PM)Heslopian Wrote:  Remembering a walk beneath the pier, During would be a substitute suggestion for remembering or simply "on---" the name of the pier would be good.
supported by posts like Grecian columns this line could be written many ways, for me 'supported on Greeklike pillars' (or columns) is a suggestion
rotting deep within a silent forest, the drama feels too dramarish.
then how I stepped onto the beach beyond, when i stepped...
where huts in the distance blurred in a light for me [in a light] would work better on the next line,
that mocked their wooden objectivity, love this and the line above. it depicts that dazzle vision you get coming out of a dark tunnel really well
I realise that I don't need Jesus.
Dead men and women have done more for me
than Jesus, the saints, and all of their troops.
Poets gave hope when Sunday school could not. solid line i think you could better bring god into the picture using the same words;


Poets gave hope when Sunday school could not.
Dead men and women have done more for me
than Jesus, the saints, and all of their troops.

I writhe in nature, like a Romantic,
record its tensions, like an Imagist,
lament its silence, like Confessionals.
Poetry is what lies beyond mankind,[ is what] needed?
poems the violent oneness with God.
They are the birth, death and resurrection.

Thank you for your kind, honest and thoughtful feedback, Bilbo This began as a free verse poem, and then I tried to see if I could make it blank verse by giving each line roughly ten syllables alternating between weak and stressed. As Milo suggested, I thought about making it a sonnet for a while, but that didn't work out. Thanks again for your input. I'll definitely change "how" to "when" in L4, as "how" clearly doesn't make sense Cheers for pointing that out, Bilbo, serge and Milo. xxx

I was trying to convey isolation and neglect. The Grecian columns rot in a silent forest, the posts rot beneath the pier. I see what you mean about absurdly convoluted metaphors-within-metaphors now Thank you for your honest and insightful feedback, trueenigma I take your point about subtlety.

Hi heslop! .-)

I know where the Mississippi flows.
Let me clarify what should be obvious anyway:

I wrote: "But then, I love Muddy Waters (which is what Mississippi means in Algonquian)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algonquian_languages
If you are East Coastish , you'd know them."

The last pronoun of that quote (= them) refers to Algonquian langugaes and there a lot of them on the East Coast.

cheers

serge

de rien

I'm too lazy (not yet drunk enough) and it is too late now anyway to change the addressee. ,-)

I did not - to quote you - "educate" you. I simply clarified.
And by the way and au contraire, to quote you once more :
"Serge the Mississippi is not near the coast, but nearly splits U.S in half, and flows into the gulf. Hence, East of Mississippi is considered Eastern U.S., and West of Mississippi is the West. The old saying "never been east/west of the Mississippi" is a southern term, as in Southeast/Southwest, not East Coast."

I would rather consider these lines as an attempt to educate me.

And, last but not least. "the Mississippi is not near the coast". ,-))
these statement is simply wrong. It is only true insofar as the Mississippi is not near the East coast. As far as I know, Louisiana has a coast line (little hint: Mexican Gulf). Please, don't take my word for it, but instead
wikipedia's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Mexico



cheers

serge

(05-05-2013, 03:10 AM)trueenigma Wrote:  Lol of course I meant the east coast. It flows into the Gulf of Mexico, so it must be near the Gulf Coast at some point.

---

And weather you meant to or not, you did give me a small education on Algonquian dialects and their geography. I actually found it quite interesting, the thank you was not sarcastic.

---

I'm actually quite familiar with the Louisiana coastline, I've harbored there many a time.

All is good. I am fine. ;-)
If you are interested in North American Indian languages, I have a lot of links I could share with you, but would prefer to use either pm or email.


For a conspectus I would recommend:
Marianne Mithun : http://books.google.de/books/about/The_L...nf3s2m7PkC&redir_esc=y

It is very technical, though.

If you want to look a bit deeper into one Amerindian tongue, I would suggest to you to choose an Uto-Aztecan one like Hopi (and definitely not start with Nahuatl (i.e, "Aztecan κατ' ἐξοχήν or par excellence), or instead of Hopi one of the Numic languages (subgroup of Uto-Aztecan): Either Shoshoni (often spelt: Shoshone):
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:S..._languages
or Kawaiisu.


have a fine evening

serge

(05-05-2013, 04:49 AM)trueenigma Wrote:  

(05-05-2013, 04:46 AM)serge gurkski Wrote:  

(05-05-2013, 03:10 AM)trueenigma Wrote:  Lol of course I meant the east coast. It flows into the Gulf of Mexico, so it must be near the Gulf Coast at some point.

---

And weather you meant to or not, you did give me a small education on Algonquian dialects and their geography. I actually found it quite interesting, the thank you was not sarcastic.

---

I'm actually quite familiar with the Louisiana coastline, I've harbored there many a time.

All is good. I am fine. ;-)
If you are interested in North American Indian languages, I have a lot of links I could share with you, but would prefer to use either pm or email.


For a conspectus I would recommend:
Marianne Mithun : http://books.google.de/books/about/The_L...nf3s2m7PkC&redir_esc=y

It is very technical, though.

have a fine evening

serge

Yes pm them please, (I have an idea for another poem) I have some NA heritage myself.

Your heritage: what is the name of tribe or nation? wild guess: Cherokee or one of the Muscogean nations?
I have no time left today for retrieving the links. but tomorrow I can,