thats not what he is saying i think... i think he is trying to get across the fact that teachers are underpaid over here and drastically so depending on what state you live in and if the teachers are allowed to unionize or not... this leads to them having a nonchalant attitude about teaching and just wanting to get through the day... teaching in the US used to be a respectable job, it is not so anymore... i have 2 teachers in my family that i observe quite frequently

(01-22-2013, 11:44 AM)Leanne Wrote:  To get a passing grade you need to show that you understand the elements of each genre. I don't have any problem with teachers adhering to that. Teachers need to be able to assess your understanding of why something is the way it is. Revolutionaries are rebelling against something -- and to be able to rebel against something you need to know exactly what it is and why you want to subvert or shatter it. Breaking the rules without knowing what they are isn't revolution, it's just yelling incoherently into space and sometimes hitting on the right word.

Yes, teachers should encourage exploration and exploitation of generic features... but students need to remember that you need a foundation to build any lasting monument.

I agree completely. I'll use Jiu Jitsu as an example because it is one of the few things I understand very well. There are two main training methods to improve.

1. Technique
2. Sparring (Rolling)

Technique is very important. It obviously build the basics (Which, like in most things) are the best thing to have. You always need to review technique. Especially when you are new to the sport. Someone who is brand new should be spending about 90% of their time training doing just technique. Similar to someone who is just beginning writing should be doing way more writing exercises than just sitting down and start writing. However the longer you are involved with the sport the more and more you find rolling the be the more beneficial course of training. This is because you can drill and try to learn as many moves as you want, but until you find what actually works for you, then your whole game is useless. So in sparring you become more comfortable with what you know will work. Similar to how once you've been writing for some time you will find that just writing freely about anything becomes the more beneficial way of improving your abilities.

Someone who only trains technique will find themselves very lost in an actual match. And someone who has only ever sparred will find themselves lacking versatility. I would explain how that part translates to writing, but I feel like it is fairly obvious.

I hope my example wasn't hard to follow.

It's a very good analogy and it's a shame more beginning poets don't realise that

i like your style man. you remind me of myself in high school except my example would be through football

(01-22-2013, 11:48 AM)doolasmind#11 Wrote:  thats not what he is saying i think... i think he is trying to get across the fact that teachers are underpaid over here and drastically so depending on what state you live in and if the teachers are allowed to unionize or not... this leads to them having a nonchalant attitude about teaching and just wanting to get through the day... teaching in the US used to be a respectable job, it is not so anymore... i have 2 teachers in my family that i observe quite frequently

I won't get into this argument, sorry -- teachers here are underpaid and overworked also, not to mention grossly under-appreciated by the general public who think that 5-6 hours classroom contact is the extent of the work teachers do and have no concept of the amount of time involved in planning lessons, finding resources, making class time engaging, keeping up with technology, maintaining professional development etc. Regardless of the hard work and crap money, I would never turn up to work and do a half-arsed job. Had I wanted a career where I'd do minimum work for maximum returns, I'd have been a lawyer

(01-22-2013, 11:58 AM)Leanne Wrote:  It's a very good analogy and it's a shame more beginning poets don't realise that

Thank you. The only hard part is understanding when the right time to make the majority of your training rolling is. If you are too modest then you will find yourself overly reviewing things when time could be better spent practicing them live. However, if you assume you are much better than you actually are then you will miss out on a lot of techniques that could be very useful to your own game.

haha there are lawyers in the family as well and i don't want to argue it's probably that way everywhere but when people are unsatisfied they tend to be mediocre... well actually people just tend to be mediocre in general...just saying

(01-22-2013, 12:02 PM)Leanne Wrote:  

(01-22-2013, 11:48 AM)doolasmind#11 Wrote:  thats not what he is saying i think... i think he is trying to get across the fact that teachers are underpaid over here and drastically so depending on what state you live in and if the teachers are allowed to unionize or not... this leads to them having a nonchalant attitude about teaching and just wanting to get through the day... teaching in the US used to be a respectable job, it is not so anymore... i have 2 teachers in my family that i observe quite frequently

I won't get into this argument, sorry -- teachers here are underpaid and overworked also, not to mention grossly under-appreciated by the general public who think that 5-6 hours classroom contact is the extent of the work teachers do and have no concept of the amount of time involved in planning lessons, finding resources, making class time engaging, keeping up with technology, maintaining professional development etc. Regardless of the hard work and crap money, I would never turn up to work and do a half-arsed job. Had I wanted a career where I'd do minimum work for maximum returns, I'd have been a lawyer

England?

No, Australia.

(01-22-2013, 12:07 PM)Leanne Wrote:  No, Australia.

Australia always has seemed like a fun place to live. Except the insects and such.
Seems like all life in Australia grows in large numbers and bigger than usual.

(01-22-2013, 12:04 PM)Jagger Cyde Wrote:  The only hard part is understanding when the right time to make the majority of your training rolling is. If you are too modest then you will find yourself overly reviewing things when time could be better spent practicing them live. However, if you assume you are much better than you actually are then you will miss out on a lot of techniques that could be very useful to your own game.

The overarching philosophy of this site is: see one, do one, teach one. It's the best way to become proficient in any discipline, in my opinion.

(01-22-2013, 12:09 PM)Jagger Cyde Wrote:  Australia always has seemed like a fun place to live. Except the insects and such.
Seems like all life in Australia grows in large numbers and bigger than usual.

Not really, but we like to tell American tourists that

(01-22-2013, 12:35 PM)Leanne Wrote:  

(01-22-2013, 12:04 PM)Jagger Cyde Wrote:  The only hard part is understanding when the right time to make the majority of your training rolling is. If you are too modest then you will find yourself overly reviewing things when time could be better spent practicing them live. However, if you assume you are much better than you actually are then you will miss out on a lot of techniques that could be very useful to your own game.

The overarching philosophy of this site is: see one, do one, teach one. It's the best way to become proficient in any discipline, in my opinion.

(01-22-2013, 12:09 PM)Jagger Cyde Wrote:  Australia always has seemed like a fun place to live. Except the insects and such.
Seems like all life in Australia grows in large numbers and bigger than usual.

Not really, but we like to tell American tourists that

Is that how you keep the beautiful weather to yourselves? Scare away everyone else with tales of big bugs?

i came to the thread late i enjoyed reading it.
an addenda to what's already been said. be as creative as you want but never stop learning about technique, language, and form. always make it a good experience. always try and write funny little bit of nonsense now and again. always ask when not sure, and this is really the most important, grow a thick skin if you want to workshop your poetry.

oh, never join the "well done" poetry forums and never stay in the "that's shit' forums.

(01-22-2013, 01:23 PM)billy Wrote:  i came to the thread late i enjoyed reading it.
an addenda to what's already been said. be as creative as you want but never stop learning about technique, language, and form. always make it a good experience. always try and write funny little bit of nonsense now and again. always ask when not sure, and this is really the most important, grow a thick skin if you want to workshop your poetry.

oh, never join the "well done" poetry forums and never stay in the "that's shit' forums.

100% agree on the thick skin part. The more brutally honest a review is, the more you learn

(01-22-2013, 11:46 AM)Todd Wrote:  I didn't think I could write until I got into my 20s and stumbled into it. School taught me not to like writing.

Which is why I'm glad my writing is for the most part self educated. Mark Twain himself said "Never let school get in the way of your education." (Well, that's it to my best recollection.)

Not sure what to do with it. Supposed to be funny, right? shrugs
Was slow, so:

About an hour later reread it:
Ok, got it now. Like the style.
I still do not get why that should matter. ,-)
Anyway
thanks for the fine read

cheers

serge

Quote:or leave it to the prose.

very clever last line, enjoyed, reading replies to the thread I'd have to agree, poetry is poetry whatever form it takes

Serge, happy to hear that your slowness was only temporary and has worn off

Smiffy, cheers. If a poem's shite, it's because it's shite, nothing to do with whether it's a sonnet or not!

I think I ate before. ,-)

Is there really fighting between factions? Do militant free versers throw petrol bombs through the windows of rhyming poetry circles, reducing them to a mist of viscera and Frost, while rhymers sneak up on free versers and shank them with fountain pens? Just kidding, I know what you mean. Really I see it as an extension of how in childhood you try allying yourself to one movement, band or whatever to give yourself an identity. Like when I decided that I'd only listen to Joy Division and X-Ray Spex while reading "hardcore" 90s novels Some people never grow up. Thank you for the read, Leanne, like all your "for fun" poems it was sarkily funny