Hey there. Sorry about the lack of title, but I don't usually title poems, so I figure I'll just adopt a number-based titling scheme for most of what I post here.

Edit: title changed in possibly failing effort to avoid ironic cliche.

Interested in comment on this, specifically:

• how it reads/sounds to someone who doesn't know what's coming
  
• thoughts on tone (something I find horrifyingly difficult to get right)
  
• the effectiveness of the repetitive elements
  

Cheers!

----------------------------------------------------------

there is a certain voice and words
an easy touch that makes me think
of a day on secrets
of a laugh that spills light

in supermarkets while
the longest walk of shame, some words
chlamydia trachomatis, thrush
pictures that batter only, and bring their words
the stare and hold that worries only
the strange face one day seen in
polished furniture and the long dark
shine of the hallway light that one day
brings a yellow tiger colour only (his last) and asks
if this is really a chat? or some
easy words said one day only.

it is hard being apart from you.

but a cave you know a pile of things
and thinglike stuff, today, one day, the weekend. the dusty
slip of a life that will
not look back upon itself
another day on secrets
one day words
without light, laughter

Hello Parakleseos. It's a difficult poem to get a grip on, elusive. Sometimes titles can help in that respect! Supermarket, hallway, cave. Someone has chlamydia and someone is dying? That's what I understood by this - yellow tiger colour only (his last).
I thought "a day on secrets" was maybe a typo for of or in, but as you repeat it later I assume not.

pictures that batter only, and bring their words - I think the repetition of "only" works well. I'm not sure that the last 4 words are really needed and "pictures that batter" - well, it doesn't work for me.

but a cave you know a pile of things
and thinglike stuff, today, one day, the weekend. the dusty
slip of a life that will
not look back upon itself

That "but" at the start is irritating. I've tried without success to link it to another part of the poem. I love from "the dusty slip..." onwards.
Thinking about it, the oddest part of the poem is this

in supermarkets while
the longest walk of shame, some words
chlamydia trachomatis, thrush

Anyhow, it's something I'll come back to.

Ray

(07-26-2012, 07:46 PM)parakleseos Wrote:  Hey there. Sorry about the lack of title, but I don't usually title poems, so I figure I'll just adopt a number-based titling scheme for most of what I post here.

Interested in comment on this, specifically:

• how it reads/sounds to someone who doesn't know what's coming
  
• thoughts on tone (something I find horrifyingly difficult to get right)
  
• the effectiveness of the repetitive elements
  

Cheers!

----------------------------------------------------------

there is a certain voice and words
an easy touch that makes me think
of a day on secrets
of a laugh that spills light

in supermarkets while
the longest walk of shame, some words
chlamydia trachomatis, thrush
pictures that batter only, and bring their words
the stare and hold that worries only
the strange face one day seen in
polished furniture and the long dark
shine of the hallway light that one day
brings a yellow tiger colour only (his last) and asks
if this is really a chat? or some
easy words said one day only.

it is hard being apart from you.

but a cave you know a pile of things
and thinglike stuff, today, one day, the weekend. the dusty
slip of a life that will
not look back upon itself
another day on secrets
one day words
without light, laughter

Hi para,
Good to see you asking for comments in serious crit. I don't normally give crit under specific requests and so I guess I'll just use numbers.
so:
2
4
1
6
9
OK. Joke over. A title really helps. Without it, how are we supposed to know your intent. Meaning is not everything, but false interpretation of any serious piece leaves a hollow feeling in the reading. It means that the reader has another "aspect" of the work to consider which leaves the unpleasant taste of bitter mistrust Do YOU know what it is about? And if you do, give a clue....if you do not, then don't bear-trap me.
The whole piece has an messy, ragged feel to it. Punctuation then no punctuation, lucidity then absurdity, fluency then incompetance.
Have you proof read the piece? Thing is, crit is one thing (or thinglike stuff)....free editing is quite another (thing).
For me, it needs a trim and rewrite to get the BEST out of it. Ditch the rest. It works for me.
Best,
tectak

Thank you very much for your thoughts.

The reason I asked for very specific kinds of criticism is that, while I may have "meaning" in mind, this is not a poem that especially intends to communicate something concrete and unambiguous, so I'm not really interested in semantic/semiotic analyses.

In my view, meaning is not only not everything in poetry, but it doesn't have to be anything in poetry--or at least the artist's view of a piece's meaning does not have to be privileged. The idea of a "false interpretation" is therefore incoherent to me. Many worthwhile analogies with visual art may be made. Here is where I'd usually launch into a tirade re: My Philosophy of Poetry, but I'll spare you all that.

I've proofread the poem dozens of times and edited it extensively. I can understand that for anyone with any formalist leaning this may not appear to be the case.

I rarely use titles because they usually seem like an attempt to frame the poem for the reader. Sometimes this is necessary, or a good idea, or you can do something clever and creative and fun with a title, but usually titles feel superfluous to me, even patronising. Again, I respect alternative views with regard to this, and it doesn't bother me that most people title their poems.

The whole piece has an messy, ragged feel to it. Punctuation then no punctuation, lucidity then absurdity, fluency then incompetance. <-- This probably wasn't intended to be complimentary, but I'm tickled by it. Though I'll assert that the absurdity is only ostensible, as is any appearance of incompetence.

penguin: I'm glad you thought the repetition of "only" worked well; it was one of the things I wasn't sure about. The "but" you mention is intended to reference the immediately preceding line. The last stanza is intended as a meditation upon the (grudgingly conceded) benefits of temporary separation from the person you love. So kind of a "but on the other hand..."

Thanks again for the comments. I've made a few small changes as a result. And it is refreshing to hear this kind of honesty.

i hate poetry that isn't owned. we talk about cliche in poetry and i can't see anything as cliche as a title called untitled.you say sorry about the untitled but the irony is you gave it a title. albeit a cliche one. you could have just typed in .......... and at least have us thinking about it.

when a person reads a poem, they never know what's coming, it's why we read them unless we're going back to the ones we love and know.

i see you tried a bit of formatting...
[ind] allows you to indent
[ind][ind] allows you to indent more and so on
just click reply to see how it's done

(07-26-2012, 07:46 PM)parakleseos Wrote:  Hey there. Sorry about the lack of title, but I don't usually title poems, so I figure I'll just adopt a number-based titling scheme for most of what I post here.

Interested in comment on this, specifically:

• how it reads/sounds to someone who doesn't know what's coming
  
• thoughts on tone (something I find horrifyingly difficult to get right)
  
• the effectiveness of the repetitive elements
  

Cheers!

----------------------------------------------------------

there is a certain voice and words
an easy touch that makes me think
of a day on secrets
of a laugh that spills light

in supermarkets while
the longest walk of shame, some words
chlamydia trachomatis, thrush
pictures that batter only, and bring their words the repetition., it feels to much, if the fell in the enjambment allowed them to fall in the middle of a line it might work better. L1 to 4 of this stanza also has a disjointed feel.
the stare and hold that worries only
the strange face one day seen in
polished furniture and the long dark
shine of the hallway light that one day
brings a yellow tiger colour only (his last) and asks
if this is really a chat? or some
easy words said one day only. i'm not sure but i think it's enjambment that's affecting the tone, in a negative way for most of the stanza

it is hard being apart from you. this one single line for me is the crux of the poem, the lucid moment if you will. because of it i can decipher a lot of what's been written.

but a cave you know a pile of things
and thinglike stuff, today, one day, the weekend. the dusty
slip of a life that will
not look back upon itself
another day on secrets
one day words
without light, laughter

i staggered through it for want of a better word. mainly due to the enjambment. i won't lie and say i understood the aim but i think i got something from one line which gave it up. i get a feeling of trust issues predominantly but also of loneliness; again mostly from my lucid line.
some of the repetitions worked but words didn't (not for me anyway)
all that said. there's a strength in the poem that's forcing its way out....

it just needs a little help

thanks for the read

Yeah, when I publish untitled things I certainly don't (and wouldn't) call them "Untitled," I just leave it blank. Just wasn't sure for the forum if that were possible or not, and didn't want to risk it. If it is, I'll do that from now on. Or use periods or random alphanumeric strings or whatever.

In terms of not knowing what's coming, I mean insofar as it affects the reading rhythms. It's impossible for me to read it without using the inflections and rhythms I intend, but I'm not sure if that's because I've structured it in such a way as to coerce them, or if it's that I know how it goes.

I think you're right about the first 4 lines of the second stanza reading in a disjointed way. They don't to me, but I think for the reasons I've just outlined. I'll think a bit more about the enjambment.

The "lucid line" you mention is sort of meant to be the "key" in terms of the meaning I had in mind (which is no better/worse/more valid/interesting than whatever other meaning someone may derive from the poem, of course), and I'm glad you picked up on it. I intended it to feel like a moment of clarity among all the impressionistic/allusive/literary/obtuse stuff.

(07-27-2012, 10:27 AM)billy Wrote:  i hate poetry that isn't owned. we talk about cliche in poetry and i can't see anything as cliche as a title called untitled.you say sorry about the untitled but the irony is you gave it a title. albeit a cliche one. you could have just typed in .......... and at least have us thinking about it.

when a person reads a poem, they never know what's coming, it's why we read them unless we're going back to the ones we love and know.

i see you tried a bit of formatting...
[ind] allows you to indent
[ind][ind] allows you to indent more and so on
just click reply to see how it's done

(07-26-2012, 07:46 PM)parakleseos Wrote:  Hey there. Sorry about the lack of title, but I don't usually title poems, so I figure I'll just adopt a number-based titling scheme for most of what I post here.

Interested in comment on this, specifically:

• how it reads/sounds to someone who doesn't know what's coming
  
• thoughts on tone (something I find horrifyingly difficult to get right)
  
• the effectiveness of the repetitive elements
  

Cheers!

----------------------------------------------------------

there is a certain voice and words
an easy touch that makes me think
of a day on secrets
of a laugh that spills light

in supermarkets while
the longest walk of shame, some words
chlamydia trachomatis, thrush
pictures that batter only, and bring their words the repetition., it feels to much, if the fell in the enjambment allowed them to fall in the middle of a line it might work better. L1 to 4 of this stanza also has a disjointed feel.
the stare and hold that worries only
the strange face one day seen in
polished furniture and the long dark
shine of the hallway light that one day
brings a yellow tiger colour only (his last) and asks
if this is really a chat? or some
easy words said one day only. i'm not sure but i think it's enjambment that's affecting the tone, in a negative way for most of the stanza

it is hard being apart from you. this one single line for me is the crux of the poem, the lucid moment if you will. because of it i can decipher a lot of what's been written.

but a cave you know a pile of things
and thinglike stuff, today, one day, the weekend. the dusty
slip of a life that will
not look back upon itself
another day on secrets
one day words
without light, laughter

i staggered through it for want of a better word. mainly due to the enjambment. i won't lie and say i understood the aim but i think i got something from one line which gave it up. i get a feeling of trust issues predominantly but also of loneliness; again mostly from my lucid line.
some of the repetitions worked but words didn't (not for me anyway)
all that said. there's a strength in the poem that's forcing its way out....

it just needs a little help

thanks for the read

did you see the part in my post about indents

and yep you can use ..... or any number of things in a title..

Yes... I just don't understand what you're saying I should indent?

(07-27-2012, 10:48 AM)billy Wrote:  did you see the part in my post about indents

and yep you can use ..... or any number of things in a title..

(07-26-2012, 07:46 PM)parakleseos Wrote:  ----------------------------------------------------------

there is a certain voice and words
an easy touch that makes me think
[ind]of a day on secrets
[ind]of a laugh that spills light

this is how it looks in the reply box,

Oh I see... and wasn't when it was originally posted. Gotcha. I'd pasted it from elsewhere and thought the indents were preserved.

(07-27-2012, 10:57 AM)billy Wrote:  

(07-26-2012, 07:46 PM)parakleseos Wrote:  ----------------------------------------------------------

there is a certain voice and words
an easy touch that makes me think
[ind]of a day on secrets
[ind]of a laugh that spills light

this is how it looks in the reply box,

no sadly it doesn't, i see you changed the title to . any chance of two or thee dots as it doesn't make much of a target for a mouse click

Sorted.

(07-27-2012, 03:48 PM)billy Wrote:  no sadly it doesn't, i see you changed the title to . any chance of two or thee dots as it doesn't make much of a target for a mouse click

it will make a good title for all your poetry if you use it because in a way you'll be making a statement of sorts.