new immigration law in arizon

[billy]

first the gun laws changed and now this.

it says people can be stopped on suspicion of being an illegal immigrant and asked to prove they're not.

they will probably have to carry id as proof. personally i think it a slap against human rights. i think the backlash off the back of this will help obama, he's already talking against it. if he passes a fed law that says people can't be stopped by the police on suspicion of being an illegal, he'll not only get the Hispanic vote he'll get the liberal vote as well. he may not win arizona but he'll stand to gain much more. why do they play into his hands?

[Benny2guns]

Arizona passed the law and Obama being federal has no power to pass a law to change it according to the constitution.
People are sick of people entering their country illegally, working for wages that are well below the norm and not paying their share to support the system but being granted the same rights. All this bullshit about terrorists when there are none and the illegals getting through by the thousands without hassle. Obama and his party are done in the states and the only way he gets in again is under Marshall law. JMO

[billy]

Arizona passed the law and Obama being federal has no power to pass a law to change it according to the constitution.
People are sick of people entering their country illegally, working for wages that are well below the norm and not paying their share to support the system but being granted the same rights. All this bullshit about terrorists when there are none and the illegals getting through by the thousands without hassle. Obama and his party are done in the states and the only way he gets in again is under Marshall law. JMO

then make the law fair as all laws should be.
make it so the police can stop anyone and interrogate them, make everyone carry an id.

i'm sure the gov can pass a law that negates state law.
but maybe i'm wrong. i always thought the gov was the main power in the land.

and obama being done and them only getting in for a 2nd term with marshal law. i don't believe either jmo.

though thas off topic i suppose.
anyway. i think the law on stop and search should be the same for everyone, i hope all the hispanic cops start doing body searches on good ole whitefolks. BTW there was no mention of terrorist was ther, just illegal immigrants., maybe a few druggies from mexico bot no terrorists.

[Benny2guns]

Actually no Bill, acording to their constitution the federal government really does not have more power than the government of each state. Remember, it's not actually a democracy there, thats propaganda Bill. It is a republic of the people for the people. Each state can infact pass their own laws and Obama has in reality no power to change it. Thats the way it was set up so that no federal government could ever rule over the people of the union as tyrants or dictators or fascists or what have you. It may appear to be a bit off topic, granted, but when looking at the entire picture it is perfectly connected with what has been and continues to happen their.
As for illegel alliens being searched.....they are not citizens and have no protection under the charter of rights, they are in fact criminals in the country without permission.

[billy]

A federal law is a law passed by the United States government, or federal government. Federal laws are supreme over state laws (only in the case of the enumerated powers, states are able to pass laws concerning all other matters).


there are 19 enumerated powers the federal law has final say in;
below is one of them;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces; (i'd call a police force a land force.

here are the all the enumerated powers the fed has final control over:

e Delegated Powers, also called the Enumerated Powers, are the powers of Congress established in section eight of Article I of the US Constitution. There are nineteen such powers. [1]

The Delegated Powers are as follows:[2]

* The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, [in order] to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

* To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

* To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

* To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization;

* To establish uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

* To coin [not print] Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin;

* To fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

* To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

* To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

* To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

* To constitute Tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

* To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

* To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

* To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

* To provide and maintain a Navy;

* To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

* To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

* To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

* To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings.

[Benny2guns]

There is this Bill.
Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amend...nstitution
I am not a constitutional law professor but I think it may have something to do with what is happening.

[billy]

There is this Bill.
Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amend...nstitution
I am not a constitutional law professor but I think it may have something to do with what is happening.

The Tenth Amendment restates the Constitution's principle of federalism by providing that powers not granted to the national government nor prohibited to the states by the Constitution of the United States are reserved to the states or the people.

the power of control over the land and sea forces of the united states reside with the national government. the police are classed as one of Americas land forces, (it's actually called police force)

this is the enumerated bill that states the gov is in charge of land forces etc.;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces.

as shown in a previous post.

heres some more reading to substantiate the above;

Federal police possess full federal authority as given to them under United States Code (U.S.C.). Federal Law Enforcement Officers are authorized to enforce various laws not only at the federal level, but also state, county, and local in many circumstances.
U.S. Park Police officers standing by during the 2005 Inauguration Day

Both types operate at the highest level and are endowed with police roles, both may maintain a small component of the other (for example, the FBI Police). The agencies have nationwide jurisdiction for enforcement of federal law. All federal agencies are limited by the U.S. Code to investigating only matters that are explicitly within the power of the federal government. However, federal investigative powers have become very broad in practice, especially since the passage of the USA PATRIOT Act.

The Department of Justice (DOJ) is the largest and most pronounced law enforcement agency, and handles most law enforcement duties at the federal level.[8] It includes the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), the United States Marshals Service, and others.

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is another branch with numerous federal law enforcement agencies reporting to it. U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), United States Secret Service (USSS), United States Coast Guard (USCG), and the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) are some of the agencies that report to DHS.

[Benny2guns]

There is this Bill.
Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amend...nstitution
I am not a constitutional law professor but I think it may have something to do with what is happening.

The Tenth Amendment restates the Constitution's principle of federalism by providing that powers not granted to the national government nor prohibited to the states by the Constitution of the United States are reserved to the states or the people.

the power of control over the land and sea forces of the united states reside with the national government. the police are classed as one of Americas land forces, (it's actually called police force)

this is the enumerated bill that states the gov is in charge of land forces etc.;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces.

as shown in a previous post.

I am actually reading the full leingth 10th with explanations and it seems it is really not that cut and dried. Not that easy to understand either, lol. But I get the impression that fed laws are challenged all the time under the 10th.
For myself I believe it more complicated than any of what has been stated by either of us.
I will say this much, it is my opinion reguardless of all the legel jargon that searching illegel aliens at a border state is perfectly acceptable if they are known to be illegels. Thats me done here.

[billy]

I will say this much, it is my opinion reguardless of all the legel jargon that searching illegel aliens at a border state is perfectly acceptable if they are known to be illegels. Thats me done here.

the discussion is about searching them when the police don't know they're illegal aliens and making them show proof that they're not illegal aliens.
it's about give the police the power to search anyone simply stating they think the person could be an alien

for me if the police know them to be illegals who cares, they should be sent out of the the country with or without a search.

the arguement here is that by allowing stop and search without proof of them being an alien, they have given the police too much power.

[Benny2guns]

Well ofcourse they have. The police have way too much power everywhere Bill. Thats what it is to live in a police state. They can infact stop and search anyone they wish without cause or reason. Thats nothing new, even in Canada.
But thats the problem, when is it ok to search. I go to the airport to get a flight and I get searched for cring out loud. I am not a criminal but I am treated like one.
So it's ok to do this if but it is still not ok.
We can not holler about the plight of or the tactics of if in the same breath it's ok in another circumstance.
I guess thats me back in.