Difference between poetry and prose?

[Rose Love]

Of the poems I have read on this site, I would estimate that about 50%, more or less, are, by my definition, not poetry, but prose split up into lines so that it looks like a poem. I myself write things that I call "poetic prose," because they seem to lack the necessary characteristics of poetry, but they still are written with a very poetic quality and language, and, at that, they are far more poetic than prose I have seen presented as poetry on this site.

I have never dared to add comments or feedback to this effect to poems here that I consider not to be poems, because I seem to be the only one who doesn't think they are poems.

This leads me to a question I used to think had an obvious answer: What is the difference between poetry and prose?

[cidermaid]

Hi...I think I echo your views here.
I liked this quote i came accross:
"When you write in prose, you cook the rice. When you write poetry, you turn rice into rice wine. Cooked rice doesn't change its shape, but rice wine changes both in quality and shape. Cooked rice makes one full so one can live out one's life span . . . wine, on the other hand, makes one drunk, makes the sad happy, and the happy sad. Its effect is sublimely beyond explanation." - Wu Qiao .

For me poetry is a relativly new venture that has been birthed out of my love of writing prose. (which i've been doing for several years now). I have always thought of poetry as like concentrated prose; in the way that a fruit juice can have 50% or more of the water taken out of it. You can take up to 50% (+) of the filler words out of prose and what you have left still carries the same message...it just packs more of a punch.

That my take on it.

[rowens]

Maybe you can think, too, what's the difference between poetry and verse?

[cidermaid]

I am of the opinion that the division between poetry and prose is at best described as ambiguous. Both are used as a form of communication.
I suppose the traditional view of prose is that of, communication which is straightforward, in that it does not employ any deliberate literary techniques or devises, other that those of the language used (with perhaps the exception, of where the art of debate is employed). The intellectual merit of a piece of prose can therefore be directly linked to the command of vocabulary and the depth of experience of address, within the ability and knowledge any given the writer.
Poetry on the other hand, is generally considered as a form of literary art in its own right and as such is used for its aesthetic and evocative qualities in addition to, or in lieu of, its apparent meaning. Poetry by use of deliberate intent and use of various recognised artistic devises emphasises relationships between words on the basis of sound as well as meaning. As such poetry can be highly subjective both in its creation and its interpretation, in terms of what can correctly be attributed as of merit. So whilst some of the traditional and more rigid forms of poetry might be qualitative in terms of the adherence to the defined structure, other forms of poetry allow for a wider margin of accreditation and as such the intellectual / educational background of the writer is not necessarily so directly linked to the merit of a piece of poetry.
This appraisal then applied to our original question, it becomes easier to perceive that the line of demarcation is likely to be far from clear. Given the creative and artistic licence that poetry exists within, the drift from one form to another, is in my opinion, behest in the eye of the individual.

quick pause while I go and look up some ideas on verse because I was thinking perhaps verse was a term used in a negative way to describe poorly written poetry....but this sounds like a uninformed comment / idea I have picked up along the way.

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Ok..so found some quick one line thoughts to chew over:

Verse is not great art, nor is it trying to be.
It is poetry writen in the persuit of limited objectives.
Verse tells us something we already know.
Verse does not seek to know the unknown or to express the unexpected.

but i'm not sure i'm any nearer really bein able to see the difference in verse or poetry if it was presented to me.

[Leanne]

Dana Gioia wrote an excellent "essay" on the subject called Thirteen Ways of Thinking About the Poetic Line if you're interested in reading it.

Basically, I consider the difference between free verse and prose is that distillation process that cidermaid mentions. If it's obviously just a bunch of broken-up sentences that are explaining something without the added depth of poetic techniques, especially figurative language such as metaphor, then it's prose. Generally, that sort of thing is amateurish, written by people who don't know the genuinely complex skill involved in putting together a piece of free verse poetry -- they're the people who just go "free verse is easy because it has no rules", and then make an utter hash of it. On the contrary, well written free verse uses a selection of poetic techniques and sonic devices -- and it must use them well, because there is no ready-made skeleton of form to hang it on. Without some structure developed by the poet, it just ends up a lump of occasionally-twitching flesh.

Of course, there is such a thing as poetic prose -- however, this is rarely trying to be anything other than prose. It uses poetic devices to enhance its aesthetic appeal, but is still structured in a more or less familiar prose-ish way.

But the debate will rage on, no doubt, as people have been trying to define poetry for at least 3000 years and as far as I'm concerned, nobody's come up with a satisfactory answer yet.

[cidermaid]

Thanks for the link...can see i might easily get lost on this site.

[billy]

just to add to the pot, narrative verse or poetry often seems like prose. but usually stands out as poetic by the use of poetic devices. i think a poem has to use more than one poetic device to be considered for the name of poetry. as for prose poetry, if done right i enjoy it as much as non prose poetry. if i had to class prose i'd say it's written as a story,
while poetry is written as an observation either from inside the poem or as an onlooker. of course it should have some poetic devices in the thing.

i'd also state that many classic poems are written in the form of en-jambed prose.

[Leanne]

billy, I think what you've defined is less the difference between poetry and prose than the difference between lyric and narrative. Prose isn't necessarily a story, after all. A diary entry is (usually) prose.

[billy]

true,

in which case i resort to; there are always exceptions to billy's rules
aren't journals just stories concerning our lives? not arguing cos i haven't got a clue, just asking
doesn't the more than one poetic devices act as a decent rule of thumb?

[Leanne]

I don't know, I've never kept a journal or a diary But I know a lot of people use them to document thoughts or ideas, not just events.

To be honest, I'm good with just one poetic device used well, but I tend to think that to qualify as poetry it should have more than one layer of meaning e.g. use of metaphor, allegory, intertext or allusion.

Then again, not everyone will pick up on more than one layer even if it's there.

[Todd]

I think the key phrase Rose, is by your definition. I can relate. I look at some things and think this is prose with arbitrary line breaks. I think it's hard for prose poetry to be considered actually poetry. It's to easy to get sloppy with it. For me he question revolves around figurative language, imagery, and does every word matter. It's more of a feel for me than a rule. Often I'll read a piece and say poem, then I read another similar piece and say prose. The latter verdict comes usually from not having the elements I mentioned.

[Leanne]

When I was working as an editor, the main reason I would have for rejecting submissions was "prose with arbitrary line breaks"

When you don't know how much work goes into making a poem seem effortless, it's easy to assume that you can emulate it effortlessly. Unfortunately, those of us who do know how much work it is can almost always spot those who don't.

[Todd]

That's great Leanne

This thread actually made me go back and read a few of my recent ones. One in particular is close to prose.

[cidermaid]

I 'm finding myself agreeing with Leanne here....I am of the persuasion that poetry should be clever, so not only should it use poetic devises but also perferably have a hidden layer as well (althought I don't think this is essential...It is a personal marker I apply for it to be a good poem)...having said that...I agree with Billy...I don't care what the rules say...for me a poem has to use more than one poetic devise to be considered poetry.

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Perhaps we could have a thread in the excersises section to see if we can write a piece of prose, poetry and verse (on the same subject) that clearly demonstrates the differance.....I 'm assuming it will highlight the differances and ambiguity that we are all expressing on this subject.

[billy]

.I agree with Billy...I don't care what the rules say...for me a poem has to use more than one poetic devise to be considered poetry.

i'd go one step further and say enjambment while a poetic device, is also a bit of a cheat, that said, it can make or break a poem.

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Perhaps we could have a thread in the excersises section to see if we can write a piece of prose, poetry and verse (on the same subject) that clearly demonstrates the differance.....I 'm assuming it will highlight the differances and ambiguity that we are all expressing on this subject.

how evil can one person be

[cidermaid]

I'm thinking of getting a white cat

[Leanne]

i'd go one step further and say enjambment while a poetic device, is also a bit of a cheat, that said, it can make or break a poem.

dude, seriously, wtf?

are we talking about the same enjambment here?

[Todd]

A prose poetry practice might be fun.

Maybe write a piece of prose than below it turn it into a prose poem then if you want to push it further make it a more traditional poem.

[Rose Love]

O...M....G...If I wasn't intimated before, I certainly am now. I thought there was a distinct definition for "poetry" and "prose" (I don't even know what "verse" is). After all these answers, it looks like a subjective distinction.

I didn't know what any of those poetic vices were. It seems that even daily speech could be categorized as poetry. Who doesn't speak without using figurative language or metaphor?

Todd's is pretty much the only answer I could understand . It's the same for me--it's a feeling.

The writing I posted in the Miscellaneous Poetry section called Precarious Love is one that I might have called poetic prose: http://pigpenpoetry.com/Thread-Precarious-Love It is more poetic than many poems I read on here, but I actually still feel it to be prose...and yet I don't think it's prose, because it's not really a story, but an expression of an experience I had. What is it, actually?

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On the contrary, well written free verse uses a selection of poetic techniques and sonic devices -- and it must use them well, because there is no ready-made skeleton of form to hang it on. Without some structure developed by the poet, it just ends up a lump of occasionally-twitching flesh.

This, for example, is a delightfully gory bit of poetry I mean eeeeeewwwww!!!!

[Leanne]

it just takes braaaainnnnsss...

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Yes, it's very subjective. I'm reluctant these days to state categorically what is and isn't poetry... though I'm less reluctant to state what is and isn't good poetry