Need

[billy]

Oh God! I really want to be abused;
Not beaten badly so to cause disgust.
A mild chastisement will be well excused;
so please remember I am not robust.
And if you think that I should be refused,
a better, fairer price can be discussed.

With righteous morals overly discussed
the whims of men who like to be abused,
are trampled slipshod under laws robust.
Forgive me if i ask to be excused
the holy right of centre wing's disgust;
but when it's time to vote, they'll be refused.

There was a red head who I once refused
the whippage that she gave n'er be discussed.
In truth she left me hurt and too abused
and so my visa card was not robust.
She bundled up her tools of trade excused,
then turned on her stiletto with disgust.

I have been shamed and to my own disgust
when gracious give and take had been refused.
The matter of it all was not discussed;
they found her in the morning un-abused.
According to the gutter press, robust,
they deemed the woman could not be excused.

The crop in hand was something I excused
And seldom did a mistress show disgust.
I never found it hard to be abused
a fact so widely known and not discussed.
of course when offered marriage I refused
the hearts of them were much less than robust.

As high court judge I have to be robust
And crimes of violence never be excused;
to punish masochism with disgust
is wrong and it should always be refused.
A persons right to tit for tat discussed;
should Sexuality be so abused?

In leather basque robust and price discussed
you'll always be excused though not refused,
so slap without disgust, I'm the abused.

---

First edit was done quickly thanks to the eagle eye of Leannes meter-gnome, I used the obvious suggestions and tried to use an idea or two of my own as well. big thanks leanne will give it another go over in the future if anyone else gives me something to work on (you won't believe this but i originally had chastisement in a took the thing out for screwing up the meter

---

original

Oh God! I really want to be abused;
Not beaten badly or, to cause disgust.
A mild punishment will be well excused;
so please remember I am not robust.
And if you think that I should be refused,
a better, fairer price can be discussed.

With righteous morals overly discussed
the rights of men who like to be abused,
are trampled under pensive laws robust.
Forgive me if i ask to be excused
the holy right of centre wing's disgust;
but when it's time to vote, they'll be refused.

There was a red head that I once refused
and whippage that she gave n'er be discussed.
In truth she left me hurt and too abused
and so my visa card was not robust.
She bundled up her tools of trade excused,
then turned on her stiletto with disgust.

I have been shamed and to my own disgust
when glorious tit for tat had been refused.
The matter of it all was not discussed;
they found her in the morning un-abused.
According to the gutter press robust
they deemed the woman could not be excused.

The whip in hand was something I excused
And seldom did a mistress show disgust.
It was never hard being the abused
a fact so simply known and not discussed.
of course when offered marriage I refused
the hearts of them were much less than robust.

As high court judge I have to be robust
And crimes of violence never be excused;
but to punish masochism with disgust
isn't right and should always be refused.
A persons right to tit for tat discussed;
should Sexuality be so abused?

In leather basque robust and price discussed
you'll always be excused though not refused,
so slap without disgust, I'm the abused.

[Leanne]

Bugger me Billy, you must have twisted your brain inside out for this! But she rhymes and she's all the right patterns, so let's take a good look

Oh God! I really want to be abused;
Not beaten badly or, to cause disgust. -- so to cause disgust?
A mild punishment will be well excused; -- stresses are off here, it ends up punISHment, which is awkward -- maybe chastisement instead?
so please remember I am not robust.
And if you think that I should be refused,
a better, fairer price can be discussed. -- cheeky sod, rhyming disgust and discussed... clever!

With righteous morals overly discussed
the rights of men who like to be abused, -- not keen on righteous and rights so close together
are trampled under pensive laws robust. -- pensive AND robust? I'm not sure they go together at all.
Forgive me if i ask to be excused
the holy right of centre wing's disgust; -- another right -- this is the one that needs to stay though
but when it's time to vote, they'll be refused.

There was a red head that I once refused -- who, not that
and whippage that she gave n'er be discussed. -- maybe "the whippage that she gave is ne'er discussed"? (Love whippage, by the way!)
In truth she left me hurt and too abused
and so my visa card was not robust.
She bundled up her tools of trade excused,
then turned on her stiletto with disgust.

I have been shamed and to my own disgust
when glorious tit for tat had been refused. -- glorious is elided but still not a perfect fit -- another adjective maybe?
The matter of it all was not discussed; -- matter is a very vague word
they found her in the morning un-abused.
According to the gutter press robust -- comma after press, then another after robust
they deemed the woman could not be excused.

The whip in hand was something I excused -- could you use flail instead of whip? Just to avoid a bit more repetition
And seldom did a mistress show disgust.
It was never hard being the abused -- meter -- maybe "I never found it hard as the abused"?
a fact so simply known and not discussed. -- maybe widely instead of simply?
of course when offered marriage I refused
the hearts of them were much less than robust.

As high court judge I have to be robust
And crimes of violence never be excused;
but to punish masochism with disgust -- too many beats, try dropping the but
isn't right and should always be refused. -- meter again, in a rush were we? :p What about "is wrong and it should always be refused"?
A persons right to tit for tat discussed; -- two tit for tats in the poem, a sestina repeats enough words! Try quid pro quo, perhaps.
should Sexuality be so abused?

In leather basque robust and price discussed
you'll always be excused though not refused,
so slap without disgust, I'm the abused.

So, we'll just call you the Marquis, will we?

[billy]

red ass will do fine

i knew about the tit for tat and liked it at the time :blush, but you're right. i'll use most of your feedback cos it makes sense, i can't believe i have two lines with extra feet. i did rush it because it was taking too long, will try harder next time and do an edit after i get any more feedback...thanks leanne.

ps, a great piece of feedback

---

1st edit up.

[penguin]

Hello Billy. My main thought was that sometimes strict adherence to metre and form causes anomalies and absurdities we'd otherwise avoid. Like these
are trampled slipshod under laws robust.
According to the gutter press, robust,

So very unnatural when robust is presented that way. Maybe you need a more flexible word than robust.
I admire the craft and perseverance anyhow.Some suggestions

Not beat so badly as to cause disgust.

When righteous morals are too much discussed

the holy right-of-centre's fake disgust

cannot be discussed rather than ne'er

I never found it hard to be abused
a fact so widely known and not discussed. - I struggle to make sense of this.

If the last 3 lines are essential to whatever form this is, fair enough. Otherwise, I'd scrap 'em, I don't think they add anything.

If I sound overly negative, just tell me to piss off. There's some nice lines in here, the stiletto in particular.I'm just not a great fan of these forms.

[billy]

honestly, changing an end rhyme means changing the whole poem maybe next time i won't try a rhyming version.

Not beat so badly as to cause disgust....is definitely worthy looking at.

When righteous morals are too much discussed...same here, though i'm already leaning to leaving that line as it is.

the holy right-of-centre's fake disgust...nice suggestion.

cannot be discussed rather than ne'er....would add an extra foot, plus i think the voice of the poem would like the use of ne'r even if it is archaic.

I never found it hard to be abused
a fact so widely known and not discussed. - I struggle to make sense of this. basically everyone knows he's into a bit of S and M but it's never talked about. it's a not so secret secret.

the last three lines are part of the form

being negative or should i say constructive, showing a negative aspect of a poem is what feedback is often about. it's like telling someone their fly is undone if that honest feedback can be given without malice and personal attack then that's the type of feedback i'd prefer. after all, this is the serious critique thread; why else would i post it here. so thank you for taking the time to read and leave some good constructive criticism.

here's the layout of the form just in case you'd like to give it a try. (i probably don't like the form as much as you but sometimes doing the things we don't like help improve on the things we do

[Philatone]

hey billy
taking a look; understanding the desire to keep the form, endryhmes and such...

Oh God! I really want to be abused;
Not beaten badly so to cause disgust. ...felt clunky in the "so to cause" bit.
A mild chastisement will be well excused;
so please remember I am not robust.
And if you think that I should be refused,...the "that" felt like filler
a better, fairer price can be discussed.

With righteous morals overly discussed
the whims of men who like to be abused,
are trampled slipshod under laws robust....i think finding a way to enjamb "robust laws", rather than inverting the order, would make it feel less stilted. the topic strikes me as being more informal; to have it stiffened does not do the piece justice i thin
Forgive me if i ask to be excused
the holy right of centre wing's disgust;
but when it's time to vote, they'll be refused.

There was a red head who I once refused
the whippage that she gave n'er be discussed....again, the "n'er" seems to lift the language in a way that didn't feel natural. i would suggest "won't", but personal preference
In truth she left me hurt and too abused
and so my visa card was not robust....the connection between this line and one above didn't feel as tight as i would have liked
She bundled up her tools of trade excused,
then turned on her stiletto with disgust.

I have been shamed and to my own disgust...the "to" i was a bit unsure of. maybe a "by"?
when gracious give and take had been refused.
The matter of it all was not discussed;
they found her in the morning un-abused.
According to the gutter press, robust,
they deemed the woman could not be excused.

The crop in hand was something I excused
And seldom did a mistress show disgust.
I never found it hard to be abused ...i did debate for a moment that if these things happen so naturally, why would one open with how much they want to be abused. but, it is possible to want the things you have access to. it lends a kind of addiction to the speaker
a fact so widely known and not discussed.
of course when offered marriage I refused....maybe a comma after "marriage"?
the hearts of them were much less than robust..."them" who?

As high court judge I have to be robust...again a comma after "judge"
And crimes of violence never be excused;
to punish masochism with disgust
is wrong and it should always be refused.
A persons right to tit for tat discussed;
should Sexuality be so abused?
...i think this was my favorite stanza so far; nicely put

In leather basque robust and price discussed
you'll always be excused though not refused,
so slap without disgust, I'm the abused.

---

First edit was done quickly thanks to the eagle eye of Leannes meter-gnome, I used the obvious suggestions and tried to use an idea or two of my own as well. big thanks leanne will give it another go over in the future if anyone else gives me something to work on (you won't believe this but i originally had chastisement in a took the thing out for screwing up the meter

---

original

Oh God! I really want to be abused;
Not beaten badly or, to cause disgust.
A mild punishment will be well excused;
so please remember I am not robust.
And if you think that I should be refused,
a better, fairer price can be discussed.

With righteous morals overly discussed
the rights of men who like to be abused,
are trampled under pensive laws robust.
Forgive me if i ask to be excused
the holy right of centre wing's disgust;
but when it's time to vote, they'll be refused.

There was a red head that I once refused
and whippage that she gave n'er be discussed.
In truth she left me hurt and too abused
and so my visa card was not robust.
She bundled up her tools of trade excused,
then turned on her stiletto with disgust.

I have been shamed and to my own disgust
when glorious tit for tat had been refused.
The matter of it all was not discussed;
they found her in the morning un-abused.
According to the gutter press robust
they deemed the woman could not be excused.

The whip in hand was something I excused
And seldom did a mistress show disgust.
It was never hard being the abused
a fact so simply known and not discussed.
of course when offered marriage I refused
the hearts of them were much less than robust.

As high court judge I have to be robust
And crimes of violence never be excused;
but to punish masochism with disgust
isn't right and should always be refused.
A persons right to tit for tat discussed;
should Sexuality be so abused?

In leather basque robust and price discussed
you'll always be excused though not refused,
so slap without disgust, I'm the abused.

a difficult form that i think you battled through and survived, billy!

[billy]

thanks geoff
will bear the suggestions in mind on my 2nd edit in a few days.

[tectak]

Oh God! I really want to be abused;should be no problem though invoking the power of a deity may be ott. I note the first line end rhyme and the meter." really" may be superflous
Not beaten badly so to cause disgust.
A mild chastisement will be well excused;
so please remember I am not robust.
And if you think that I should be refused,
a better, fairer price can be discussed. We are now ready for a whole set of line-end rhymes. Will we get same? No. We will get the same. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

With righteous morals overly discussedor overtly?
the whims of men who like to be abused,
are trampled slipshod under laws robust.
Forgive me if i ask to be excused
the holy right of centre wing's disgust;
but when it's time to vote, they'll be refused.last three lines could be clarified but it may be difficult if you want to keep using the same end words. Clever is one thing, clearer another. You still have amused,accused, unused, defused, [b]cotused,bemused and of course, bruised, cruised,mused 2and rused.

There was a red head who I once refused
the whippage that she gave n'er be discussed.though I bow to you wider experience is is whippage or whipping? Discuss
In truth she left me hurt and too abused
and so my visa card was not robust.
She bundled up her tools of trade excused,comma after excused would help, though really you are beyond help
then turned on her stiletto with disgust.

I have been shamed and to my own disgust
when gracious give and take had been refused.
The matter of it all was not discussed;
they found her in the morning un-abused.
According to the gutter press, robust,
they deemed the woman could not be excused.

The crop in hand was something I excused
And seldom did a mistress show disgust.
I never found it hard to be abused
a fact so widely known and not discussed.
of course when offered marriage I refused
the hearts of them were much less than robust.

As high court judge I have to be robust
And crimes of violence never be excused;
to punish masochism with disgust
is wrong and it should always be refused.
A persons right to tit for tat discussed;
should Sexuality be so abused?

In leather basque robust and price discussed
you'll always be excused though not refused,
so slap without disgust, I'm the abused.

---

First edit was done quickly thanks to the eagle eye of Leannes meter-gnome, I used the obvious suggestions and tried to use an idea or two of my own as well. big thanks leanne will give it another go over in the future if anyone else gives me something to work on (you won't believe this but i originally had chastisement in a took the thing out for screwing up the meter

---

Hi billy. You must have strained your beating kipper with this one. Though leanne is my fantasy meter-maid, even in my dreams I never saw her being so schoolmarmish....but that's another fantasy. The meter was almost as good as a rhythm stick. Hit me,hit me,hit me.
I enjoyed this one. Not overjoyed with the clever use of the repeated end words. The sestina is a least favourite verse form but I do not come across it very often. I understood that the rigidity of the end words and the repeat variation was not inviolate. I think of the sestina as a training verse....and it works for you.
Try it with "...ake" ending words. Great fun.
Best,
tectak

original

Oh God! I really want to be abused;
Not beaten badly or, to cause disgust.
A mild punishment will be well excused;
so please remember I am not robust.
And if you think that I should be refused,
a better, fairer price can be discussed.

With righteous morals overly discussed
the rights of men who like to be abused,
are trampled under pensive laws robust.
Forgive me if i ask to be excused
the holy right of centre wing's disgust;
but when it's time to vote, they'll be refused.

There was a red head that I once refused
and whippage that she gave n'er be discussed.
In truth she left me hurt and too abused
and so my visa card was not robust.
She bundled up her tools of trade excused,
then turned on her stiletto with disgust.

I have been shamed and to my own disgust
when glorious tit for tat had been refused.
The matter of it all was not discussed;
they found her in the morning un-abused.
According to the gutter press robust
they deemed the woman could not be excused.

The whip in hand was something I excused
And seldom did a mistress show disgust.
It was never hard being the abused
a fact so simply known and not discussed.
of course when offered marriage I refused
the hearts of them were much less than robust.

As high court judge I have to be robust
And crimes of violence never be excused;
but to punish masochism with disgust
isn't right and should always be refused.
A persons right to tit for tat discussed;
should Sexuality be so abused?

In leather basque robust and price discussed
you'll always be excused though not refused,
so slap without disgust, I'm the abused.

[billy]

[quote='billy' pid='100565' dateline='1343893066']
Oh God! I really want to be abused;should be no problem though invoking the power of a deity may be ott. I note the first line end rhyme and the meter." really" may be superflous
Not beaten badly so to cause disgust.
A mild chastisement will be well excused;
so please remember I am not robust.
And if you think that I should be refused,
a better, fairer price can be discussed. We are now ready for a whole set of line-end rhymes. Will we get same? No. We will get the same. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

With righteous morals overly discussedor overtly?
the whims of men who like to be abused,
are trampled slipshod under laws robust.
Forgive me if i ask to be excused
the holy right of centre wing's disgust;
but when it's time to vote, they'll be refused.last three lines could be clarified but it may be difficult if you want to keep using the same end words. Clever is one thing, clearer another. You still have amused,accused, unused, defused, [b]cotused,bemused and of course, bruised, cruised,mused 2and rused.

There was a red head who I once refused
the whippage that she gave n'er be discussed.though I bow to you wider experience is is whippage or whipping? Discuss
In truth she left me hurt and too abused
and so my visa card was not robust.
She bundled up her tools of trade excused,comma after excused would help, though really you are beyond help
then turned on her stiletto with disgust.

I have been shamed and to my own disgust
when gracious give and take had been refused.
The matter of it all was not discussed;
they found her in the morning un-abused.
According to the gutter press, robust,
they deemed the woman could not be excused.

The crop in hand was something I excused
And seldom did a mistress show disgust.
I never found it hard to be abused
a fact so widely known and not discussed.
of course when offered marriage I refused
the hearts of them were much less than robust.

As high court judge I have to be robust
And crimes of violence never be excused;
to punish masochism with disgust
is wrong and it should always be refused.
A persons right to tit for tat discussed;
should Sexuality be so abused?

In leather basque robust and price discussed
you'll always be excused though not refused,
so slap without disgust, I'm the abused.

---

First edit was done quickly thanks to the eagle eye of Leannes meter-gnome, I used the obvious suggestions and tried to use an idea or two of my own as well. big thanks leanne will give it another go over in the future if anyone else gives me something to work on (you won't believe this but i originally had chastisement in a took the thing out for screwing up the meter

---

Hi billy. You must have strained your beating kipper with this one. Though leanne is my fantasy meter-maid, even in my dreams I never saw her being so schoolmarmish....but that's another fantasy. The meter was almost as good as a rhythm stick. Hit me,hit me,hit me.
I enjoyed this one. Not overjoyed with the clever use of the repeated end words. The sestina is a least favourite verse form but I do not come across it very often. I understood that the rigidity of the end words and the repeat variation was not inviolate. I think of the sestina as a training verse....and it works for you.
Try it with "...ake" ending words. Great fun.
Best,
tectak

overtly might work though i'm not sure if it would be the same meter. sadly the form dictated the end word. if i change one i'd have to change the same word in each stanza. as for leanne being a school marm...stop trying to excite me the truth is i really appreciate her input. and spot on; the poem was an exercise,; one of leannes. and while i hate them i think they serve a good cause in that they fill one's quiver with extra arrows. thanks for the feedback as always. will do another edit sometime this week and use some of your suggestions.