[split] A Greenfly (A Conachlon)

[Erthona]

-- From discussion that arose in the Miscellaneous Poetry forum --

Conachlonn, along with the other obscure form types were part of the flay-the-skin requirement. Along with the rest I dutifully turned out a passable example, thus demonstrating the minimum necessary level of competence to call myself a poet. Having then passed my practicals, I considered myself free of obscure poetic form bondage, and don't have to Conachlonn no more!

[Wildcard]

I did a Conachlonn rap and that was all I could stomach of it. It may be my ignorance but I just don't get the value of them

[billy]

it's like many things, we do them because it's a challenge or because we want to.
we often don't do them for the same reason. not having an education i tend to do them in order to gain some kind understand about form. at the end of this post i'm going to spend 72 hours trying to do a sestina and the only reason i have is that it was a lesson set by leanne. if it works out i'll be relatively happy and if it doesn't i won't be sad. ...i'll be effin livid

seriously i'm looking forward to trying one out. and after that i'll try a conachlon. (just keeping on topic )

[Wildcard]

I read the sestina thread but I just got bewildered. I think I'd better stick to more simple things for now.

Back on topic though: what I mean is that I don't understand why you would gain anything from basically just capping each line with syllable rhymes. When you read the conchlonns that's all it winds up being: one line that stands alone and reiterates the last syllable in rhyme on the next line. Then repeat

I get rhyme, but this rhyme has not rhythm to it. End rhymes and even internal rhymes seem to add to the 'musical' qualities of a poem, but what do repeated rhyming syllable that are read back-to-back adding?

[billy]

i think one of the main things it teaches us is discipline.
writing-wise of course. it gives us another technique to use.
it forges something within us that allows us to take on most things.

i'd hate to be country song writer who never writes other genre of music. i'd want to at least try it all.
for me it isn't about getting it, it's about the knowing of it. why would anyone want to know about a certain animal. or how to work the area of a triangle out? i love knowing stuff. because i like poetry i like trying my hand at poetry stuff, at least once or twice?

[Wildcard]

I totally agree that learning is always a good thing. My point is that I can imagine scenarios in which a Sonnet would make good sense- when a limerick would make the snappiest point- when free verse would allow me to express myself better. What I can't imagine is how a conchlonn would ever best suit my needs when creating a poem.

[rayheinrich]

Monachlons?

   Swiss
   miss
   kiss
  (bliss)
---

   ciao
   Frau
   cow
   how
   now?
---


   quiz
   wiz
   'tis
   his
   biz
   Ms
   Liz
---


   June
   moon
   croon
   tune
   (swoon)
---

[Leanne]

With respect, folks, in English we tend to privilege rhyme as the most poetic of devices because frankly, it's the most obvious and we're not the hardest working bunch. Irish verse is a much more complicated beast and on equal footing with rhyme there are three very important elements: amus, uaithne and uaim (assonance, consonance and alliteration). In addition there is the dunadh, or close, which means that the last syllable of the last line should rhyme with -- or be the same as -- the first syllable of the first line, to close the chain.

These have been written since around the 12th century -- that we know of. A few conachlonns exist that have been attributed to Amergin Gluingel, the Chief Ollam (bard) of the Milesians, who won Ireland from the Tuatha de Dannan in around the 2nd century BC. Examples can be found in the Ulster Cycle, the Mythological Cycle and other important texts. Training to become a bard (fili) took several years and took place in academies, with many never reaching higher than journeyman status. The conachlonns we write here take one tiny element of a form and turn out what the ancient bards would probably view as akin to finger painting -- no matter our skill, we're never going to match up to theirs.

As to when it would best suit your needs for a poem -- conachlonns are traditionally chant-like, sometimes for spells, sometimes for mesmerising the listener with the wonders of the scenery. Used in conjunction with alliteration and careful syllabic rhythms, they are poems to capture an audience and not let them go until you reach that satisfying close.

[rayheinrich]

.
Leanne said: "Training to become a bard (fili) took several years and took place in academies,..."

And turning out the same stellar writers our current universities turn out. (Though, back then, instead of student loans to be repaid, it was probably
indentured servitude.)

Oh, jeez, wait, what am I saying? Damn! Billy's got me reading Bukowski
again! That man, though I love him dearly, harboured a keen love for those
academs.

[Leanne]

I don't think you can really equate the MFA programmes (and we all know what the "F" stands for) with a lifetime of study Though it's probably true that their very rigid rules made for some complicated but bloody nigh unreadable poetry.

Surviving for a couple of thousand years does make it a little more impressive than a couple of rhymes on someone's blog... but academia nuts do tend to suck the life out of just about everything we do for pleasure. A little balance is definitely called for -- know what the rules are, then break them.

[rayheinrich]

Yeah, well, don't really know; but if I were to wager a bet on it,
I'd take the ones that wrote in the pubs.

Though, on the other side of it: some of my favorite poets are in
university. But they usually do it backassward: writing their poems
and publishing first, then getting hired to teach "creative writing".
----

"in English we tend to privilege rhyme "

That's because writers are a perverse lot (even if lazy), and tend
to honour what's more difficult. Rhyming in Gaelic (or Italian) is so
damn easy that the Irish had to add something to up the ante.
In English, it's hard enough just to rhyme, even when we're willing
to sacrifice reason.

(Insert Italian rhyming dictionary joke here.)

(And don't get me started on how easy it is to fill their shoes with feet.)

[Leanne]

Almost all of what I've learned about writing, I learned after I'd wasted way too many years studying it at university The importance of education is to get all that dry background stuff out of the way and give you a foundation to go off and learn how to do things properly on your own -- the mistake too many people make, however, is to assume that their degree means they've finished learning and are qualified to move straight to the top of the craft without any effort whatsoever.

And yes, writing in the pub is a hell of a lot more entertaining. Even if the verse is shite, the craic is worth it.

[rayheinrich]

Leanne said: "Almost all of what I've learned about writing, I learned after I'd wasted way
too many years studying it at university "

But think of all the wisdom you've gained. (I think I was actually being
serious back there.)


Ditto: "And yes, writing in the pub is a hell of a lot more entertaining.
Even if the verse is shite, the craic is worth it.

Well, the 'writing in a pub' part was definitely thought while still under
the influence of Buk. Though I've often practiced the venerable Michael
McNeilley's advice: "Write drunk, edit sober"; I've found, after wasting
way too many years that the first part is optional and the second isn't.
What cost wisdom! (Only slightly less than the cost of wisdom teeth
removal.)

P.S. Wisdom: Of the six people in the U.S. with the last name of "Faustus",
three of them live in Texas and none of the six is a Doctor.

P.P.S. Knowledge: After that I looked up "craic".

[Erthona]

University learning is very beneficial, it teaches you all the things that you should not do. Of course it isn't taught that way. It makes teaching easy if things can be boxified (put in little mental boxes), and the more little boxes you can make, the easier teaching becomes, with a proportionate drop in value. It is the path of lest resistance for those who have lost their passion, or for those who never had any. However, just because the University is such a way, doesn't mean one can forgo ones education, and an education is part of the eduction which one needs. If for no other reason than as to act as a reference point for what doesn't work. Or as Blake said,

"One never knows what is enough, until one knows what is too much!"

As most people will tell you the University is "too much!"

Plus, I would have never made it through Blake without the help of Tom Galbraith, who not only taught me how to drink cheap beer (buckhorn), but also helped open the doors of perception. Now if I could just get Los out of my fucking basement! I mean, I admire his work ethic, but he never stops, constantly banging on something! I say, "Gee Los, give it a break. It's not like you got the world on your shoulders!" He just gives me that Los look, and goes back to banging! God, don't even get me started on the time Fuzon dropped by.
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On the off topic of why a Conachlon. It's not just getting the rhymes correct, it's having the lines make some kind of sense, and if we're good, create a transcendent effect...nah, that's going to happen.
Dale