whore

[heslopian]

a serious question;
isn't it that poetry sometimes needs to be conceptual art?
doing different tricks, i do agree that it could be conceptual art but i as a reader can see so much depth in such a few words.
what i sometimes wonder is this, if such a poem were just written on a piece of paper and left on a cafe table, would the person who found it and read it think..."this is poetry" sometimes i think this type of poetry has to have the context of a poetic boundary such as a book or forum around it to work properly. here it works jmo

I agree that this work has depth. It simply strikes me as more conceptual art because the concept - a whore being someone who needs attention - seems of greater importance than the aesthetic. No poetic techniques like imagery, metaphor etc. are used. It feels like the presentation of an idea rather than a poetic vision, the kind which a haiku poem conveys by creating an isolated image.
Conceptual art was defined by Sol LeWitt like so: "... the idea or concept is the most important aspect of the work. When an artist uses a conceptual form of art, it means that all of the planning and decisions are made beforehand and the execution is a perfunctory affair. The idea becomes a machine that makes the art." That for me sums up Aish's "whore."
Your point about a poetic context is interesting. I'm more inclined to view "whore" as a poem having read it on this forum than I would if I found it at that cafe table. Maybe it is a poem. Maybe it's both a poem and conceptual art, as your question implies. That would open up the possibility of some conceptual art also being poetry, like this piece by Lawrence Weiner: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...erText.JPG

[billy]

for me the weiner piece is more gimmick than art. a bit like how i see some of hurst's stuff, or warhols souptin. while i can understand people who say pop art etc has a message, i struggle to see anything more than a soup tin etc. that said, i'm sure someone would want to buy the wall

[Aish]

I'm thrilled to have beget some sort of an epiphanic boon to Jill's understanding of internet short hand, as well as a minor debate regarding my minimalism, er, skillset.

Since I usually tend to ramble in long winded metaphor and/or cryptic symbolism this is a real departure for me. I'm ecstatic some of you genuinely picked up the layers and variable suggestion.

BTW, I have MISSED YOU ALL TERRIBLY!!!!!

---

And Jack - Jack you are a divine, critical, discerning friend. I adore you.

I adore ALL of you. *sniff* I's been away too long *sniiffflesnifflewaaaaaaaaaaah*

[billy]

it's a pleasure to see you back, i was getting withdrawal symptoms, and i'm sure mark was thinking of doing a cutter poem or two, he's with jack now. good to see you xx

[Aish]

Mark being with Jack was inevitable - there is a synergy there no woman can compete with.

I see you have corrupted another youngster. Nice beanie

[Erthona]

Grannyjill - Re: Toliet poetry

Seen in a woman's toilet (reported to me second hand)

"A hard man is good to find!"

I didn't say toilet poetry was necessary bad. I meant that it tends to be brief and pithy. Of course that does not mean that some is not by necessity necessarily shitty

Dale

[Wildcard]

it's a pleasure to see you back, i was getting withdrawal symptoms, and i'm sure mark was thinking of doing a cutter poem or two, he's with jack now. good to see you xx

How could I resist Jack's charm? And he understands that I swing both ways like a pendulum

Mark being with Jack was inevitable - there is a synergy there no woman can compete with.

It ain't just the synergy that no woman can compete with . . . Jack has a very long- umm skillset


My favorite bathroom poetry(actually a porta-john):

Here you sit all tired and dirty,
Hiding in the shitter till 3:30
Here I am all nice and clean
Fucking your wife until 3:15

[Aish]

gtfo - not sure of this one...perhaps the 'f' is the same, and 'o' is off. Yes? But 't' could be 'to' or 'the'and 'g' could be anything (got/going/gagging/get...get.Is that it? I wouldn't have been much use at Bletchley Park would I?

I'm not playing dumb, here, I am dumb!

GTFO = Get The Fuck Out

---

As far as whether or not this is indeed a poem, or a pithy bathroom stall poem, or that gold analogy I am not fond of because it is rude and self serving: it is a poem and not just because I say so. Concrete minimalism is not generally my preferred means of poetry either to read or write. In fact, I once posted a William Carlos Williams poem, 'The Red Wheelbarrow' as an example of famous poems I do not care for. I have since grown a larger appreciation for that poem. It draws, in few words, a perfect snapshot:
"so much depends
upon

a red wheel
barrow

glazed with rain
water

beside the white
chickens. "

To me as poet and observer of the mass media pop culture frenzy warbling all around me, 'whore' and the unspoken but present psychological and cultural implications exists.

[billy]

i think like beauty, poetry is in the mind of the beholder. be it the poet or the reader. both can be right for themselves at the same time. poetry (your poem) is both dead and alive at the same time. i think most creative works are the same.

[Todd]

I actually have no problem with the sentiment: "It's poetry because I say it is." Even if that isn't the only reason someone would grade something as a poem.

I think it's every writer and reader's right to classify something as poetry. We all may argue about the merits of this or that piece, but ultimately that's like a chef arguing about a patron's palate. My palate is better than it once was (to carry the comparison forward) but I've written many short pieces (a few of them I've posted here, and I think they're poems). I tend to prefer saying the most in the fewest words so I may be biased in that regard.