Higgledy Piggledy

[. . . .]

You mean to say they let cat's have a rifle?
God that is awful, man that is dreadful.
Surely some poor dog's gonna get hurt
to lie there prone, face down in the dirt.
I hope those responsible are brought to book
And hung till they're dead from the nearest hook.
Fancy letting a loose kitten have a gun
That's a poor idea of how to have fun.
Buy it some slippers, let it sleep by your feet
And when it goes hunting use its claws and its teeth.

......am I far enough away from a linear narrative style for you?

Edit - how come you posted at 12.16 am to-day and I posted at 10.53 to-day - have we entered a time warp?

Now THAT was awesome.
And I learned how to spell Higgledy Piggledy and what it is..

[rayheinrich]

God is...looks like 'ahzaim' (I don't understand the middle word)

But, my excuse is I can't read arabic as well as I can read Urdu (poorly!)

That was in Urdu, not Arabic:

Arabic: الله أكبر
Urdu: خدا عظیم ہے
Hindi: ईश्वर महान है

higgledy piggledy in Arabic: مشوش
higgledy piggledy in Urdu: گڑبڑ
higgledy piggledy in Hindi: अस्त व्यस्त

[grannyjill]

It was in arabic - truly....it may have been an Urdu word- but the script was definitely arabic, unless it was just badly written Urdu. Even your example here doesn't look like the Urdu script I used to read and write, honest. The 'arabic' you have as your first example looks exactly like Urdu to me...it says Allah Akhbar. But, I will search on line until I find something which looks familiar to me, just to be on the safe side....after all it was 20 years ago.
APOLOGY COMING UP It seems that my style of writing/reading has been overtaken by 'persian?' script . So, you are right.
But, I wish I could find something to prove that I am not a total idiot which would save my face a little.
Hurrah I found a page written in my script...sadly it wouldn't let me copy and paste any of it.....http://www.urdulife.com/poetry/poetry.cgi?nig_8....if you can bear to humour me a bit, go and take a look - pretty please.
I used to read Gurmukhi script, too in the dim and distant past - but I have forgotten it all now. I learned it as an aid to speaking Punjabi - but then discovered that those to whom I'd be teaching English spoke punjabi but wrote in Urdu.

You're making up the translations - I don't believe a word of it.

[rayheinrich]

Hey, you're cool. Saw and believe and you know bunches more
than me. I'm only a good German and mediocre Spanish person
myself. My friend Google and I were just having a bit of fun.

I just love Google translate (and a few others). I've gotten
half-decent at Japanese (says a native Japanese speaking
friend of mine). The trick is to use English to Japanese (or
whatever) first, then use the Japanese to English to see if
it's close. If not, you just re-phrase until it comes back
close to the same. Using simple sentences and basic words
helps as well. (i.e Kierkegaard and Wallace Stevens don't
work, but what your cat did today does.) More fun.

[grannyjill]

Ah - you've broken my rose-tinted spectacles. I didn't know you were cheating! I was thinking you were multi-lingual and everything.

I, on the other hand, am not. I struggled for about five years to master Urdu but this was before the universal access to computers, so I did so from books and by attending evening classes. Each September I would enrol....and around November the classes would fold!

But, I did so enjoy the challenge. Now, of course, most of what I struggled to learn I have now forgotten.
Mera nam Jill hai, mera khavind dakia hai, mujhe chaar bacchae hoo, main dafter main kam kertae hai
ap kaisae hai? Main teek hai........basic stuff like that still remains.

[rayheinrich]

Ah - you've broken my rose-tinted spectacles.

I'll send you a pair of mine as soon as I can remember where I put them.


I didn't know you were cheating!

A properly phrased search term IS knowledge! Just knowing something is SO <= 20th century
(not to mention being evolutionarily [merrily] inefficient).


I was thinking you were multi-lingual and everything.

Hey, German isn't chopped liver! (Well, OK, maybe some of it.) This gets me to "bi"
and the Spanish... if I lie convincingly I AM "multi". (Have always confused this with gender, sex... (those two too).


I, on the other hand, am not. I struggled for about five years to master Urdu but this was before the universal access to computers, so I did so from books and by attending evening classes. Each September I would enrol....and around November the classes would fold!

I resemble your remarks. "universal access to computers" ain't here yet.
The order goes something like: "cell phones", "computers", drinking water", "food"...


But, I did so enjoy the challenge. Now, of course, most of what I struggled to learn I have now forgotten.

This remark I as well resemble also though maybe I closer to caricature be.


Mera nam Jill hai, mera khavind dakia hai, mujhe chaar bacchae hoo, main dafter main kam kertae hai
ap kaisae hai? Main teek hai

Hidilibanf fularoodel! Taeblemner tarkovichily damfinorker!

Am just noting the following for posterity's sake (Ginjo):

higgledy piggledy in Arabic: مشوش back-transed to English:
confused, muddled, mixed, chaotic, jumbled up, deranged, disturbed,
messy, muddy, beefy, disordered, promiscuous, disorganized,
hugger-mugger, higgledy-piggledy, disarrayed, unsettled, disarranged

I love "hugger-mugger" but "BEEFY" ? Still, a good trans!


higgledy piggledy in Urdu: گڑبڑ back-trans to English:
wrong, bug, disturbance, chaos

Urdu trans lacks depth. And "bug"... the computer one?


higgledy piggledy in Hindi: अस्त व्यस्त
scattered, disrupts, mess

Better, but still lacking.

[grannyjill]

I've read your very interesting and informative (mickey-taking)response) Shall we stop now?.

re: universal access to computers, you know what I mean - I recently saw a Community channel programme which showed kids in tumble-down huts in Uganda (using a generator) logging onto the web....problem is when they see how we decadent, power guzzling, consumer rich people live they may decide to fight for their share.

(I thought only North Korea didn't have access to the world wide web)

[rayheinrich]

.
gj said: "Shall we stop now?"

stopping is for civilians


geejay said: "problem is when they see how we decadent, power guzzling,
consumer rich people live they may decide to fight for their share."

"they" is me. occupy walled-ins!

[. . . .]

It was in arabic - truly....it may have been an Urdu word- but the script was definitely arabic, unless it was just badly written Urdu. Even your example here doesn't look like the Urdu script I used to read and write, honest. The 'arabic' you have as your first example looks exactly like Urdu to me...it says Allah Akhbar. But, I will search on line until I find something which looks familiar to me, just to be on the safe side....after all it was 20 years ago.
APOLOGY COMING UP It seems that my style of writing/reading has been overtaken by 'persian?' script . So, you are right.
But, I wish I could find something to prove that I am not a total idiot which would save my face a little.
Hurrah I found a page written in my script...sadly it wouldn't let me copy and paste any of it.....http://www.urdulife.com/poetry/poetry.cgi?nig_8....if you can bear to humour me a bit, go and take a look - pretty please.
I used to read Gurmukhi script, too in the dim and distant past - but I have forgotten it all now. I learned it as an aid to speaking Punjabi - but then discovered that those to whom I'd be teaching English spoke punjabi but wrote in Urdu.

You're making up the translations - I don't believe a word of it.

Oh c'mon a simple occasional error does not make for loss of face.. (Besides ya got lots more face left over..?)

On higgledy piggledy Im just guessing here but I think that we need to know what it means in English before ya try to figure what it means in one of the oldest languages on the planet... when higgledy piggledy's didn't exist. (Do they exist?) Does a higgle piggle when it wiggles?

[grannyjill]

I spoke of higgledy-piggledy first to Mark, to show that sometimes a poem does need a word here and there changed IF it makes no sense to other English speaking people....viz - his use of Median in reference to a traffic island. I'd never heard of a Median and thought it was something to do with Average....so was baffled by his verse (I used higgledy-piggledy as my example because I had had to remove it from a poem I once wrote...because folk from the US of A didn't use it, or understand it)

Going back to the beginning. Higgledy piggledy is a perfectly normal English phrase used by grown-ups - not a phrase from Dr. Seuss! Or any other children's book.

---

.
gj said: "Shall we stop now?"

stopping is for civilians


geejay said: "problem is when they see how we decadent, power guzzling,
consumer rich people live they may decide to fight for their share."

"they" is me. occupy walled-ins!


Listen matey, I am a civilian - in fact my career choice is to be an innocent bystander. Edit....damn, I just realised those are the ones who get killed first. (What does 'occupy walled-in' mean?)

[Wildcard]

You see, Jill? I tried to tell you Google wasn't cheating. To a person unfamiliar with the different phrasing techniques, Google is nowhere near as useful or productive. It actually takes a little while before you realize all the features Google has available. Like Boolean searches(this AND that/this OR that), synonyms(tilde before search term: ~cat look for 'cat' or any synonyms), exact quotes(enclose search term in double quotes: "this or that" note: the or in this case doesn't mean Boolean it just means 'or' cause the whole phrase is in quotes) and that's just scratching the surface.

The next time you Google, click on the Advanced Search link for a taste of the real power of searching the Net

[rayheinrich]

.
jannyg spake thus: "I used higgledy-piggledy as my example because
I had had to remove it from a poem I once wrote...because folk from
the US of A didn't use it, or understand it."

And when jannygranny said this I corrected her because the term
"higgledy-piggledy" is widely used and understood by most of us
un-limey's. My mom used it all the time when I was growing up.
(But not once, ever, did she refer to our road vehicle intended for
human habitation as a "caravan".)


gj enunciated: "Listen matey, I am a civilian Smile- in fact my career
choice is to be an innocent bystander. Edit....damn, I just realised those
are the ones who get killed first."

"Civilian", in my context, is anyone whose is not a member of the army
of partially sentient beings who delusionally re-arrange words in a
pathetic attempt to, among other equally futile things, "communicate".
(Nor did my mom (unlimey for "mum") ever spell realized with an "s".)


janny persevered: "What does 'occupy walled-in' mean?"

It's the equivalent of "Occupy Wall Street" for those of us who "write"
instead of "do".

And yes, mark is partially right and I do, most sincerely, love gj to the
extent that it will not piss off my cats or my wife. (BTW, what's limey
for the term "piss off"?)

[grannyjill]

Aha 'occupy Wall Street' I understand.

'piss off' fits comfortably on both sides of the pond...although we do tend to use it as a suggestion that some-one remove themselves from our presence.

I love your exchanges...keep 'em coming.

(what the heck is this thread about?....my short-term memory is abyssmal and I'm too idle to climb back up to see)

Would your cats like to see my cat poem? They would? Well so be it.

A Cat’s Life

First I'll do my plucked
chicken impression,
one leg in the air,
licking

Then I'll arch my back
curl my tail over my head
rake the sofa with my claws,
and go to bed.
Not my own
no, my mistress's soft, warm bed instead

to lie, like a pretzel,
on her pristine covers
knowing she's the undisputed queen
of all cat-lovers.

She's a pushover for feline things,
I know.
(though I never let her
know that I know)
it keeps her greedily dependent,
if I don't let it show.

She thinks she owns me.
How misguided can any human be?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
ps don't tell your cats this, but I don't actually have one - a cat, that is.

---

You see, Jill? I tried to tell you Google wasn't cheating. To a person unfamiliar with the different phrasing techniques, Google is nowhere near as useful or productive. It actually takes a little while before you realize all the features Google has available. Like Boolean searches(this AND that/this OR that), synonyms(tilde before search term: ~cat look for 'cat' or any synonyms), exact quotes(enclose search term in double quotes: "this or that" note: the or in this case doesn't mean Boolean it just means 'or' cause the whole phrase is in quotes) and that's just scratching the surface.

The next time you Google, click on the Advanced Search link for a taste of the real power of searching the Net

Sometimes, Marcus my boy, I haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about. What are Boolean searches...and the rest of the gobbledy-gook? No - on second thoughts - don't tell me. If I wasn't so poorly I'd find out for myself by doing a search on the web. (but, I can't see that happening)

[Wildcard]

Jill,
Boolean Logic

You don't have to understand Boolean algebra to get what a Boolean search is. Basically think of it as yes/no logic. For example if I I enter the words 'cat AND hat' into Google, this would indicate that I would like to search for pages that contained both words. If I entered 'cat OR hat', the search would include pages that contained either word.

It's basically a way resolving mathematical statements into a true/false value. Like:

1 AND 1 = True
1 AND 0 = False
0 AND 1 = False
1 OR 1 = True
1 OR 0 = True
0 OR 1 = True

So if we replace the 0 and 1 with our terms, you can see how Google would treat the search:

'cat'(exists on this page) AND 'hat'(exists on the page being searched) = True(show this page in the results)
'cat'(doesn't exist on the page) AND 'hat'(does) = False(do not include this page in the search results)
'cat'(does exist) OR 'hat'(doesn't exist) - True(show this page in the results)
'cat'(doesn't) OR 'hat'(doesn't) = False(don't include this page in the search results)

Does that make it any clearer?

[grannyjill]

Well, yes it does...but, I felt the tears prickling my eyes just like they did when Mrs. Price used to stand over me and tell me something my pathetic brain couldn't cope with (usually numbers) Did you know that after being at school from the age of 4 until I was 17 I only managed 9% in my Maths Mock GCSE's (they're the equivalent of high school graduation exams I suppose)

I've forgotten why you are teaching me how to make a Boolean search!!!!