Will hydrogen cars ever take off?

[moby cock]

Will hydrogen cars ever take off?

Hydrogen cars promise zero tailpipe emissions - but they first require an expensive network of refuelling points It's something of a chicken-and-egg scenario. Which needs to come first: the hydrogen car, or the hydrogen refuelling point?Honda believes the latter. This week it (with the help of BOC) unveiled the first open-access hydrogen refuelling facility in the UK at its factory in Swindon. And yet, to date, not one hydrogen-powered car – not even Honda's FCX Clarity - has ever been sold in the UK. All the vehicles we have seen so far have been demonstration models.And here in lies one of the great challenges for advocates of hydrogen cars. To even get the technology to first base, you must first install an extensive network of refuelling points across the country, or at least across the major conurbations. At least electric vehicles can be charged via a conventional power socket should a public recharging point not be available or convenient.The extensive cost of building such infrastructure can be estimated when you learn that this single facility at Swindon was built with a regeneration grant of £250,000 from the (soon-to-be-axed) South West England Regional Development Agency. (Professor Kevin Kendall, in the video above, states that "we can expect 30-40 such stations in England by 2015".)And you can see from the underwhelming adoption of LPG-powered vehicles in the UK - despite their significantly lower fuel costs compared to petrol and diesel - the problems that can persist if you don't build a truly comprehensive network of refuelling points. The perception quickly builds that the technology is a hassle and not as convenient as "conventional" fuels, which, for many people, still over-rides financial considerations.Electric vehicles are going through these birthing pangs right now as the race quickens to install as wide and diverse a network of recharging options as possible. Savvy innovations such as Plug Surfing, which utilises smart phones to let drivers locate and, crucially, share private charging points, should help to pick up the pace of adoption. But hydrogen vehicles seem to have the further handicap of being totally reliant on bespoke, dedicated refuelling points.In the US, the Obama administration has gone noticeably cold on the idea of hydrogen cars. Earlier this year, Byron McCormick, the former director of General Motors' hydrogen fuel cell team, resigned from a federal hydrogen technology advisory committee due to government cuts in funding for hydrogen vehicles. "I just feel sad they'll be proven so very wrong by history," he said in his resignation email.But which side of history do you think hydrogen cars will ultimately end up? Putting to one side the albeit important question of how you produce hydrogen as a fuel in a low-carbon manner, is it worth the epic investment required to install refuelling points across the country before any cars can be driven in earnest? And, if so, who should foot the bill?

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[abu nuwas]

Walmart owed its succcess to, among other things, its system of opening one store, then another a good way away, then infilling. I think a creeping system for hydrogen cars would be, ultimately, extremely profitable. Kent would be geographically good. It is parially surrounded by sea, so journeys are limited. It is heavily populated. And as the facilities came closer to London, people would begin to use those for commutes. Once cars were seen about on the road, I don't think Government money would be needed; I remember the money people made from getting motorway concessions for petrol-stations, services etc. I think Government/inductry money might be needed for that 'seedcorn' investment, and for out of the way places, perhaps.

It might be that some of the big oil companies (BP?) which have taken a buffeting, will see that there is money to be made from this kind of activity, not just in the UK, but elsewhere.

[billy]

good post abu

i think if the people who own the existing stations. esso, shell etc. should invest in building the required apparatus, swindon probably used a brand new building, the petrol stations already have the sites etc. surely all that would be need would be adequately secure holding tanks and a delivery system. also, the car manufacturers themselves. outlay the initial cash and reap the rewards of selling clean fuel, and cars.

[abu nuwas]

It occurs to me, Billy, that while the oil majors might find it profitable to transform themselves into 'energy companies', other vested interests could not, and will do what they can to deter this. I am thinking in particular of EDF, still, I believe, largely owned by the French State. As you know, France is mainly nuclear, and this company has been campaigning with a deal of success to build nuclear power stations. Gordon Brown's brother popped up as Director of Public Affairs for the company, another got to work for the BBC. The Labour Government which had once been anti-nuclear power, changed course. So for EDF, that is all good; but people floating about in hydrogen cars would be a complete no-no. Just as nuclear energy is now paraded as 'clean' (tell that to the Japanese!), so I should expect to hear that hydrogen cars are, in some way, worse than any known fossil-fuel....

[billy]

It occurs to me, Billy, that while the oil majors might find it profitable to transform themselves into 'energy companies', other vested interests could not, and will do what they can to deter this. I am thinking in particular of EDF, still, I believe, largely owned by the French State. As you know, France is mainly nuclear, and this company has been campaigning with a deal of success to build nuclear power stations. Gordon Brown's brother popped up as Director of Public Affairs for the company, another got to work for the BBC. The Labour Government which had once been anti-nuclear power, changed course. So for EDF, that is all good; but people floating about in hydrogen cars would be a complete no-no. Just as nuclear energy is now paraded as 'clean' (tell that to the Japanese!), so I should expect to hear that hydrogen cars are, in some way, worse than any known fossil-fuel....

all true but we'll fair no better with the likes of osbourne stating;

George Osborne has pledged that if he has his way in the coalition government, the UK will cut "carbon emissions no slower but also no faster than our fellow countries in Europe", causing dismay in the green business sector.

he also backs the old tory policy of business being more safe and workers being more put out,

“So we are now going to make it much less risky for businesses to hire people. We will double to two years the amount of time you can employ someone before the risk of an unfair dismissal claim.”

non of this crap is helping the country move away from nuke power, it's not helping us from moving away from fossil power either.

one of the people at the conference said, (i don't remember who) that we should be leading in alternative energy research so that we can generate jobs in it and sell the technology once we have it. sadly it doesn't look like it. i think hydrogen cars will take off, but not any time soon with the sheep we have in all three parties who steer the ship.