BREAKING NEWS: The Netherlands to Abandon Multiculturalism!

[srijantje]

srijantje......oops sorry

[Leanne]

Protestant Christianity

Oh yes, those Southern Baptists are renowned for their tolerance.

[billy]

i thought most democracy removes the church from state?

vf, while you make laws that keep a cultures culture in tact to do so on such a scale after so many years of integration can be construed as foolish at best, i'm of the same mind as sj and think it's done as a potential vote winner in that it gives the people something to carp about.

as for catholic Christianity...it works okay where it doesn't interfere with the gov...like it does here in the philippines. th uk have no problem per say with it, and we don't see too many catholic suicide bombers. not many of them instill hatered by pounding on their congregation to burn peoples respective book of god.

i noticed you didn't mention Lutherans, look at how nasty they were. religion in general causes conflict, make laws to ensure it doesn't and enforce them. theres no need to shout out "we're stopping immigrants" in order to get votes. if you have a problem deal with it.
remove people who don't follow the law of the particular land. it's not rocket science and religion doesn't actually need to be blamed.
it's more to do with taking care of oneself

[srijantje]

It's the scumbags and hate mongers in any religion that cause the problems.

in holland it's about 1 in 18 that are from outside,that's not a huge number,put a stop on immigration an deal with the people who are there already

[Leanne]

i thought most democracy removes the church from state?

It does indeed. That seperation is an essential aspect of preventing the recurrence of theocratic dictatorship.

Your slip is showing. That paragon of excellence and virtue, catalyst for British Protestantism King Henry VIII, declared himself Supreme Head of the Church of England in 1534. The current Supreme Head of the Church of England is Her Majesty QEII. This doesn't sound like separation to me.

Of course, when one collects Heads of State as a hobby, one can call oneself reformed as one pleases. And the Church of England didn't require an Inquisition -- they chose genocide instead.

[thethingy]

The current Supreme Head of the Church of England is Her Majesty QEII. This doesn't sound like separation to me.

its not, but the realms are currently reviewing the act of settlement so its likely that the right of succession will include females and catholic's or whatever in the near future, not to say the protestant rule wont be informally enforced or the sovereign wont be head of the church of England, Being head of the church of England only really means something in England anyway because the rest of the UK & realms dont have the monarch as head of the church.

[Leanne]

Of course that's true -- it just annoys me when people make ignorant, absolute statements and generalisations about cultures, religions and races.

[Leanne]

How many Baptists does it take to change a lightbulb?

One. Any more would be compromise and ecumenical standards of light would slip.

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How many Lutherans does it take to change a lightbulb?

Change?

[srijantje]

OUTRAGEOUS, in order to become dutch you have to know the dutch anthem[new rule],i just read,if 10% of the dutch know their anthem i'll eat my hat

[Leanne]

OUTRAGEOUS, in order to become dutch you have to know the dutch anthem[new rule],i just read,if 10% of the dutch know their anthem i'll eat my hat

Isn't it "Tiptoe Through the Tulips"?

Or is that the song that goes "Where'd you say I have to stick my finger?"

[abu nuwas]

OUTRAGEOUS, in order to become dutch you have to know the dutch anthem[new rule],i just read,if 10% of the dutch know their anthem i'll eat my hat

One of my sons is to become a Dutch citizen next month, having passed all the tests. He is very keen to brag of his knowledge of Dutch, and also Friesian, but did not mention this anthem business.

I shall quiz him v shortly, and report back.

As for Canada, I wonder if any of the kanata after whom the place was named still survive, and whether anyone thought to render the edelweiss-like anthem into their tongue?

[billy]

i thought most democracy removes the church from state?

It does indeed. That seperation is an essential aspect of preventing the recurrence of theocratic dictatorship.

Your slip is showing. That paragon of excellence and virtue, catalyst for British Protestantism King Henry VIII, declared himself Supreme Head of the Church of England in 1534. The current Supreme Head of the Church of England is Her Majesty QEII. This doesn't sound like separation to me.

Of course, when one collects Heads of State as a hobby, one can call oneself reformed as one pleases. And the Church of England didn't require an Inquisition -- they chose genocide instead.

it doesn't sound like it but it really is. the head of the church in the uk has little or no power regards the government save for ceremonial ones.

1534 was a long time ago.

vf said; The Muslim influence in Europe has reached the point where there are now neigbourhoods in Swedish cities where the women living there are afraid to walk outside without a scarf on their head. Young male Muslim fanatics act as Sharia morality police in the streets, dominating the girls and women, and threatening them. That is wrong.

yes it is. arrest and deport them if they do it. give em a prison sentence. use the law. don't however use it as a tool to win votes just for the sake of winning votes. and by all means use your boarders wisely, but don't condemn just because of race or religion. sweden has laws, enforce them.

sj; most countries are the same about national anthems, often there's an oath of allegiance as well. i think the uk are making sure people can speak understandable english too.

i don't think what's happening in the netherlands is borne of religion, it borne more from political agenda. again, laws can be made to ensure dutch laws are adhered too.

[abu nuwas]

I think there may be soome misunderstanding of multiculuris. As I have understood it, it encapsulated the idea that Sikhs, Muslims, Italians, and others might each choose the community with which they identified, and be a part of that, maintaining their own customs, beliefs and so forth, amongst the host community, and sharing with all, the benefits of the common wealth. It was well expressed by the saying "Be a Jew in your own tent, be a man outside". In the UK, and large areas of Europe, there is now an acceptance that this concept, easily trotted out by the political elite for years, has failed, whether because it was simply flawed, or because it had been dreamed up when the host community was vastly superior numerically to to those who chose not to identify wholly with it. It is only one way of recognising diversity.

The Muslim community, like the Irish before them, has a particular problem: one the one hand, a determination to hang on to amazing UnEnglish names (like mine), on the other, the knowledge that it is form their community, not from little old white English ladies in Bognor, that the enthusiasts are drawn, for the most part, who go to Pakistan with a view to returning and going straight to Paradise by way of blowing up some part of Kensal Green or Beachy Head.

In time, this particular set of fruit-cakes will fade away; but there will always be more, with some other, futile, hugely important Cause to take their place........ Now, who got the place-name references?

[billy]

kensal green was a melting pot if irish and blacks manily living in their own predefined areas along with some english.
cricklewood being an irish enclave,

and mention in an irish song;
McAlpine's Fusiliers

(Dominic Behan)

(Spoken
'Twas in the year of 'thirty-nine
When the sky was full of lead
When Hitler was heading for Poland
And Paddy, for Holyhead
Come all you pincher laddies
And you long-distance men
Don't ever work for McAlpine
For Wimpey, or John Laing
You'll stand behind a mixer
And your skin is turned to tan
And they'll say, Good on you, Paddy
With your boat-fare in your hand
The craic was good in Cricklewood
And they wouldn't leave the Crown
With glasses flying and Biddy's crying
'Cause Paddy was going to town
Oh mother dear, I'm over here
And I'm never coming back
What keeps me here is the reek o' beer
The ladies and the craic
I come from county Kerry
The land of eggs and bacon
And if you think I'll eat your fish 'n' chips
Oh dear then you're mistaken

As down the glen came McAlpine's men
With their shovels slung behind them
'Twas in the pub they drank the sub
And out in the spike you'll find them
They sweated blood and they washed down mud
With pints and quarts of beer
And now we're on the road again
With McAlpine's fusiliers

I stripped to the skin with the Darky Finn
Way down on the Isle of Grain
With the Horseface Toole I knew the rule
No money if you stopped for rain
McAlpine's god is a well-filled hod
Your shoulders cut to bits and seared
And woe to he went to look for tea
With McAlpine's fusiliers

I remember the day that the Bear O'Shea
Fell into a concrete stairs
What the Horseface said when he saw him dead
It wasn't what the rich call prayers
I'm a navvy short, was the one retort
That reached unto my ears
When the going is rough you must be tough
With McAlpine's fusiliers

I've worked till the sweat it has had me beat
With Russian, Czech, and Pole
On shuttering jams up in the hydro-dams
Or underneath the Thames in a hole
I've grafted hard and I've got my cards
And many a ganger's fist across my ears
If you pride your life don't join, by Christ!
With McAlpine's fusiliers

(as sung by The Dubliners)

Tune: The Jackets Green

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wasn't beachy head the place we had our radar during wwII?

as for what you say, i agree, it's all about maintaining who you are. that said it has to work in the confines of the law of the land. a practicing muslim or seihk (sp) can still practice there culture, they just can't force their young into under-age marriage. again i agree when you say they got it wrong. there has to come a time when one enclave over runs those by the side of it. it makes sense not to give the key to your car to a drunk stranger

[srijantje]

I could live with tiptoe through the tulips,and have Tiny Tim sing it when foreign dignitaries arrive