Have we got a hot one for you tonight!
It's the Israelis against their arch-rivals: the Palestinians
An always much-anticipated matchup
for all you dedicated fans the world over.
And if you're tuning in late:
The Israelis have scored a few thousand Palestinians.
But don't worry,
we're not even finished with the first half yet.
The game is just heating up,
there'll be lots more scoring on both sides.
So stay tuned,
there's been nothing but fast-paced excitement so far.
And no matter who you're rooting for,
there's lots of thrilling action yet to come.
- - -
images - Wikimedia Commons
paint.net - ray heinrich
Sports as training in unquestioning acceptance of leaders, jingoism, war:
"Sports is another crucial example of the indoctrination system, in my view. For one thing because it offers people something to pay attention to that's of no importance. That keeps them from worrying about things that matter to their lives that they might have some idea of doing something about. It's striking to see the intelligence that's used by ordinary people in discussions of sports as opposed to political and social issues.
I remember in high school. I suddenly asked myself at one point, why do I care if my high school team wins the football game? I mean, I don't know anybody on the team, they have nothing to do with me. Why am I cheering for my team? It doesn't make sense. But the point is, it does make sense: It's a way of building up irrational attitudes of submission to authority, and unquestioning group acceptance of leaders -- in fact, it's training in irrational jingoism." - Noam Chomsky
Please feel free to go as off-topic as you want.
I most prize comments that describe what you thought and felt when you were reading
the poem, irrespective of the content of the poem. Also encouraged are off-topic comments
(what you had for breakfast this morning or anything about cats - I live with eight) and poems
that answer the one above (Leanne loved doing that). As well as corrections to grammar,
spelling, and suggestions for improved wording of lines.
a brightly colored fungus that grows in bark inclusions
(11-06-2023, 02:32 AM)Tiger the Lion Wrote: "matchup" should be "derby" - for all its implications.
I'm from Texas U.S. so had to go look it up:
derby - UK / noun / a sports event between teams in the same area:
"in the same area" ... Now I get it.
Indeed it may have originally been a UK term. But soccer is worldwide sport and a derby is how it is promoted when 2 teams from the same city or region compete. It began with Catholics and Protestants, but the hate extends beyond.
(11-06-2023, 02:32 AM)Tiger the Lion Wrote: "matchup" should be "derby" - for all its implications.
I'm from Texas U.S. so had to go look it up:
derby - UK / noun / a sports event between teams in the same area:
"in the same area" ... Now I get it.
Indeed it may have originally been a UK term. But soccer is worldwide sport and a derby is how it is promoted when 2 teams from the same city or region compete. It began with Catholics and Protestants, but the hate extends beyond.
derby (n.)
town and county in England, Old English Deorby "deer village," from deor "deer" (see deer) + by "habitation, homestead," from a Scandinavian source (see first element in bylaw). the annual Derby horse race, the most important in England, was begun 1780 by the 12th Earl of Derby and run at Epsom, Surrey; the name was used for any major horse race after 1875. Hence Derby day (generally the Wednesday before Whitsuntide), etc.
Derby dog, something that "turns up" without fail, as the proverbial dog on the race-course on Derby day, after the track is otherwise cleared for the races. [Century Dictionary; the phrase is attested from 1858]
The type of stiff, felt hat with a rounded crown and more or less narrow brim was manufactured in U.S. by 1850 and called by that name by 1870; perhaps so called because it was worn in riding. It came in as a fashionable novelty in 1874.
I wonder how far removed you are from the conflict that you could write something so cheeky about it xD
Then again, I suppose those attempting to be poets have to be cheeky, one way or another.
Still, I think this poem is a little too equivocal, not so much with the causes or the knotty nature of the conflict, but with the proportions of dead. Since I don't really engage with the world of sports, the most specific I could go is to refer to this comic, the tenor of which I find to be more accurate: https://existentialcomics.com/comic/273
(11-11-2023, 04:56 PM)RiverNotch Wrote: I wonder how far removed you are from the conflict that you could write something so cheeky about it xD
Then again, I suppose those attempting to be poets have to be cheeky, one way or another.
Still, I think this poem is a little too equivocal, not so much with the causes or the knotty nature of the conflict, but with the proportions of dead. Since I don't really engage with the world of sports, the most specific I could go is to refer to this comic, the tenor of which I find to be more accurate: https://existentialcomics.com/comic/273
The poem is pretty much a bitter, sarcastic comment on war in general and this war in particular.
It addresses how removed most people are to the very real suffering and death of the individuals
involved. They treat it as entertainment, as a game, and have decided to root for one side or
the other and use the body count as a sports score. The poem is a parody of their viewpoint and
how they treat the war.
The use of irony always involves the danger of being taken literally, but because of this ambiguity,
it can sometimes make the point more powerfully. (Reminds me of the quote: "Irony is a sword
without a handle." Meaning that those who use it run the danger of cutting their own hands.)
True disrespect is to use the suffering of the humans involved as an argument for one's side.
I have contempt for the people on both sides that use violence to win what they consider a
game and are indifferent to the suffering they cause.
The right-wing leadership in the Israeli government and the right-wing leadership of Hamas
know of what they are doing: They're fighting to maintain their control of their respective
governments and know the only way to stay in power is to continue the conflict. To them it is
only the power that matters, the suffering of individuals is just another tool to maintain it.
They directly support each other; their explicit and implicit cooperation is required to continue
this war. At the very heart of it, they are one and the same.
a brightly colored fungus that grows in bark inclusions
11-14-2023, 02:47 AM (This post was last modified: 11-14-2023, 02:47 AM by Tiger the Lion.)
For me, the $37.95 price tag was enough to coach me into approaching this as parody. Poetry needs to be unashamed. I dread the day when we need to premise the life out of irony in a vain attempt to swerve cancellation.
11-14-2023, 09:13 AM (This post was last modified: 11-14-2023, 09:14 AM by RiverNotch.)
(11-14-2023, 01:52 AM)rayheinrich Wrote: The use of irony always involves the danger of being taken literally, but because of this ambiguity,
it can sometimes make the point more powerfully. (Reminds me of the quote: "Irony is a sword
without a handle." Meaning that those who use it run the danger of cutting their own hands.)
I would say it's my mistake, but it's more you're doubly right, that I've encountered enough callousness online for this to seem literal in my first few readings, even forgetting that some of the things I write could probably be taken the same wrong way. Though, just to be clear, I was seeking to deliver critique, not cancellation, albeit critique that in this light is somewhat useless xD
At this late date, I will confess I was offended by the poem. I understood you were being ironic, but it seemed too soon, with innocent people currently dying in large numbers, to make light of it.
There was a NYTimes editorial about the pressure to take sides in this horror (which I didn't read) early on in the conflict. I probably should have read it.
Anyway, I've concluded that the best I can do is to not take any side, to absorb the ugliness of it as best I can, and hope it will end soon.
I came across this article about neolithic warfare recently, which may or may not be relevant:
![[Image: SupportYourTeam.jpg]](http://wordbiscuit.com/im21/SupportYourTeam.jpg)
