Bob Dylan Feedback please thank you

[bob@mancity.net]

Bob Dylan 1961-64

In nineteen sixty-one
he burst upon the scene.
They called him “Hammond’s Folly”,
executives weren’t keen.

The bosses at Columbia
thought John Hammond a fool.
brought Dylan off the street,
and sat him on a stool.

But record sales were possible
when they realised his technique.
Was not like other singers,
And his style quite unique.

He made his mark quickly
from Duluth on a train.
Arriving in New York,
through ice, snow and rain.

He’d get a devoted following
his name up there in lights.
Joan Baez his Queen,
he’d sing of Civil Rights.

Found work in the cafes
loved being on stage.
Had to Pass the basket
a dollar a day his wage.

Singing Guthrie songs
Guitar around his shoulder.
With lyrics that cut deep,
harmonica in its holder.

Blowing in the wind
he would sing in Greenwich village.
He had a raw charisma,
and a hobo like image.

He would sing of love and loss
of dreams and despair.
The poet from Minnesota,
his folk songs he would share.

Sing tales of heartache
and struggles blacks were facing.
Supporting Martin King
for the freedom he was chasing.

He would write his own songs
Other singers he’d outshine.
Challenging the status quo
of an America in decline.

Emmitt Till and Hattie Carroll
Black people that’d been killed.
With these great songs of freedom
A great following, he would build.

He stood for justice and truth
with a rebel's fervent flame.
Unswayed by popularity
Just another pawn in the game.

Dylan kept changing,
like a rolling stone.
Each verse would tell a story
the seeds he had sown.

His words resonated deeply,
across the great divide.
Uniting hearts and souls,
with each poetic stride.

So, the blacks of America
finally became more free.
the young Bob Dylan,
the country had heard his plea.

But he said they were only songs
and he never supported a cause.
And all he ever wanted
was a crowd and an applause.

In the annals of history,
He will be up there with the King.
An inspiration for many
For the beautiful songs he'd sing.

Times were a’ changin 
life had become hectic.
and early Bob Dylan had now gone
in sixty-five he went electric.

He said he was just a singer
not here to save the nation.
but his popularity would make him
the Voice of a Generation.

[rayheinrich]

Welcome to Pigpen, Bob
And yes, as Quixilated said above, new members need to critique at least
two poems in Basic critique, Mild to moderate critique, or Intensive critique
and workshopping before they submit a poem to be critiqued. Since these
will be your first two times, I'd suggest you critique two poems in Basic critique.
Don't worry, these don't have to be detailed critiques, just pick two of the
poems, sincerely read them and try to provide helpful suggestions for
improving them. If you need some guidance about how to do this, read
some of the other critiques, there are plenty of good examples on what
you should try to do.
Again, welcome to Pigpen, we're a good group here and willing to help
anyone who sincerely desires to improve their writing. (And also have a
bit of fun along the way.)
Ray

[bob@mancity.net]

1696939587[/url]']
Welcome to Pigpen, Bob
And yes, as Quixilated said above, new members need to critique at least
two poems in Basic critique,  Mild to moderate critique, or  Intensive critique
and workshopping before they submit a poem to be critiqued.  Since these
will be your first two times,  I'd suggest you critique two poems in Basic critique. 
Don't worry, these don't have to be detailed critiques, just pick two of the
poems, sincerely read them and try to provide helpful suggestions for
improving them. If you need some guidance about how to do this, read
some of the other critiques, there are plenty of good examples on what
you should try to do.
Again, welcome to Pigpen, we're a good group here and willing to help
anyone who sincerely desires to improve their writing. (And also have a
bit of fun along the way.)
Ray



Thank you Ray 

[rayheinrich]

So...

You said you had just started writing and Basic critique is where you should have placed
this poem. But that's okay, you don't know what goes where yet you're just starting and
that's not a big deal. Just a note for the future.

Okay here's a little secret: I am reasonably experienced with poetry, but I really don't do
critique that often. So here's what I'm going to do: I'm going to give you some critique on
how I would do things. This is NOT how I think you should do it, I'm just giving you an
example of how someone else might do it and I'm going to leave it up to you to learn
something from this but to figure out how you would do it your way.

That said:
First off you're doing iambic 4/3 and rhyming the second and fourth line like a lot of folk songs.
In spoken poetry you can get away with a lot more variation in the rhythm because you can
squish some syllables together and pull some apart as you are speaking, just like you can when
you're singing. But if you're doing the poem for the written page you have to be a little more strict
with the rhythm because the reader doesn't have you to prompt them with your voice. Not that
I'm saying you have to follow the iambic religiously, if you do that it will sound contrived. You
should make a mistake or two every stanza or so that's a little out of rhythm. And in similar
fashion your rhymes shouldn't always be perfect ones, you should include near but not perfect
rhymes every once in a while. That helps to make it less mechanical and more natural as well.

Now here's some personal preferences that you should take is an example, but not as an
instruction that you should actually follow them. It's my personal taste and not yours but I
just wanted to provide an example.

I really don't like poems that have a standardized rhyme scheme. I don't mind having words
that rhyme and especially ones that alliterate, but I don't like them always in the same place
or that often. i.e. Sometimes in the middle or at the first. And personally I love iambic feet
and religiously use them in all my poems, but the number of feet I put in each line varies
quite a lot.

All that above is probably something you want to ignore but I put it in here just so you can
think about it.

Now getting on to the thematic and narrative content of your poem which is something
you should really think about:
Your poem is in nice little blocks of 4/3/4/3 that rhyme, so it has the appearance, rhythm, and
rhyme of a poem; but it reads like an article from Wikipedia. What I see on the page is a list of
facts which any number of Dylan books repeat in the same chronological order that you have
written them down in.

No matter how your writing is structured, if you don't have something different from the
encyclopedia, it doesn't make for a good poem.

Now they're all sorts of ways to go from here, but let me tell you one specific example that
would work.

You said you were old enough to be alive in that time, when Dylan was writing the songs or
at least a few years after that when some of the albums were coming out. So that means
when an album came out or when you heard a specific song for the first time, something
was happening in your life, maybe it had to do with the events that inspired his songs, or
maybe the song reminded you of something that happened in your life, or some emotion
that you strongly felt when you heard his song for the first time.

Here's a writing exercise you can do that I think would help you quite a lot (but you'll need
to be the judge of that): Read over your poem and identify the stanzas which have the
strongest memories and emotional feelings for you. Pick 4 to 8 of them, but no more. Copy
only those to a fresh page of your computer or whatever you use, and leave plenty of space
in between them. Now fill each space with notes about what the stanza above reminded
you of (they should not be metered lines, just rough notes). With what the stanza above
reminded you of, how you felt, your physical condition at the time, what person you were seeing,
what you read, saw on TV, etc.

Now go back and mix those notes in with the stanza above. Make a new stanza or stanzas
out of that mix. ---- A poem is about feeling and emotional connection and real people and
you're the poet and the thing you know the best is what you see around you and you yourself.
So try that out, see how that works, and bring it back here.

"May the bears be off gathering flowers." - (old Romanian saying)
ray

[bob@mancity.net]

1696953513[/url]']
So...

You said you had just started writing and Basic critique is where you should have placed
this poem. But that's okay, you don't know what goes where yet you're just starting and
that's not a big deal. Just a note for the future.

Okay here's a little secret: I am reasonably experienced with poetry, but I really don't do
critique that often. So here's what I'm going to do: I'm going to give you some critique on
how I would do things. This is NOT how I think you should do it, I'm just giving you an
example of how someone else might do it and I'm going to leave it up to you to learn
something from this but to figure out how you would do it your way.

That said:
First off you're doing iambic 4/3 and rhyming the second and fourth line like a lot of folk songs.
In spoken poetry you can get away with a lot more variation in the rhythm because you can
squish some syllables together and pull some apart as you are speaking, just like you can when
you're singing. But if you're doing the poem for the written page you have to be a little more strict
with the rhythm because the reader doesn't have you to prompt them with your voice. Not that
I'm saying you have to follow the iambic religiously, if you do that it will sound contrived. You
should make a mistake or two every stanza or so that's a little out of rhythm. And in similar
fashion your rhymes shouldn't always be perfect ones, you should include near but not perfect
rhymes every once in a while. That helps to make it less mechanical and more natural as well.

Now here's some personal preferences that you should take is an example, but not as an
instruction that you should actually follow them. It's my personal taste and not yours but I
just wanted to provide an example.

I really don't like poems that have a standardized rhyme scheme. I don't mind having words
that rhyme and especially ones that alliterate, but I don't like them always in the same place
or that often. i.e. Sometimes in the middle or at the first. And personally I love iambic feet
and religiously use them in all my poems, but the number of feet I put in each line varies
quite a lot.

All that above is probably something you want to ignore but I put it in here just so you can
think about it.

Now getting on to the thematic and narrative content of your poem which is something
you should really think about:
Your poem is in nice little blocks of 4/3/4/3 that rhyme, so it has the appearance, rhythm, and
rhyme of a poem; but it reads like an article from Wikipedia. What I see on the page is a list of
facts which any number of Dylan books repeat in the same chronological order that you have
written them down in.

No matter how your writing is structured, if you don't have something different from the
encyclopedia, it doesn't make for a good poem.

Now they're all sorts of ways to go from here, but let me tell you one specific example that
would work.

You said you were old enough to be alive in that time, when Dylan was writing the songs or
at least a few years after that when some of the albums were coming out. So that means
when an album came out or when you heard a specific song for the first time, something
was happening in your life, maybe it had to do with the events that inspired his songs, or
maybe the song reminded you of something that happened in your life, or some emotion
that you strongly felt when you heard his song for the first time.

Here's a writing exercise you can do that I think would help you quite a lot (but you'll need
to be the judge of that): Read over your poem and identify the stanzas which have the
strongest memories and emotional feelings for you. Pick 4 to 8 of them, but no more. Copy
only those to a fresh page of your computer or whatever you use, and leave plenty of space
in between them.  Now fill each space with notes about what the stanza above reminded
you of (they should not be metered lines, just rough notes).  With what the stanza above
reminded you of, how you felt, your physical condition at the time, what person you were seeing,
what you read, saw on TV, etc.

Now go back and mix those notes in with the stanza above. Make a new stanza or stanzas
out of that mix. ---- A poem is about feeling and emotional connection and real people and
you're the poet and the thing you know the best is what you see around you and you yourself.
So try that out, see how that works, and bring it back here.

"May the bears be off gathering flowers."  - (old Romanian saying)
ray

Ray, That is brilliant 
I will do as you suggest 
Thank you
Bob

[CRNDLSM]

Since this is in basic, I'll give you some impressions I had throughout.  My first thought is this is pretty long, that's cool cause it's something Bob Dylan would do, but I think each one of his linss would be twice as long, that I think would feel a little better

Bob Dylan 1961-64

In nineteen sixty-one, he burst upon the scene.
They called him “Hammond’s Folly”, executives weren’t keen.
The bosses at Columbia thought John Hammond a fool.
brought Dylan off the street, and sat him on a stool.
But record sales were possible when they realised his technique.
Was not like other singers, and his style quite unique. 

He made his mark quickly from Duluth on a train.
Arriving in New York, through ice, snow and rain.
He’d get a devoted following his name up there in lights.
Joan Baez his Queen, he’d sing of Civil Rights.
Found work in the cafes, loved being on stage.
Had to Pass the basket, a dollar a day his wage. Ii don't understand pass the basket

Singing Guthrie songs, Guitar around his shoulder.
With lyrics that cut deep, harmonica in its holder.
Blowing in the wind, he would sing in Greenwich village.
He had a raw charisma, and a hobo like image.
He would sing of love and loss, of dreams and despair.
The poet from Minnesota, his folk songs he would share. awkward phrasing

Sing tales of heartache, and struggles blacks were facing.
Supporting Martin King, for the freedom he was chasing.
He would write his own songs, Other singers he’d outshine.
Challenging the status quo of an America in decline.
Emmitt Till and Hattie Carroll, Black people that’d been killed.
With these great songs of freedom, A great following, he would build.

He stood for justice and truth, with a rebel's fervent flame.
Unswayed by popularity, Just another pawn in the game.
Dylan kept changing, like a rolling stone. I I like the use of his songs throughout
Each verse would tell a story, the seeds he had sown.
His words resonated deeply, across the great divide.
Uniting hearts and souls, with each poetic stride.

So, the blacks of America finally became more free.
the young Bob Dylan, the country had heard his plea. Kinda awkward 
But he said they were only songs, and he never supported a cause.
And all he ever wanted was a crowd and an applause.
In the annals of history, He will be up there with the King.
An inspiration for many, For the beautiful songs he'd sing.

Times were a’ changin , life had become hectic.
and early Bob Dylan had now gone, in sixty-five he went electric. awkward
He said he was just a singer, not here to save the nation.
but his popularity would make him
the Voice of a Generation.

Sorry for reformatting, reading it like this now I notice the story better, maybe there should be more consistency in the length of each line, I can't hear it right I think.  Look forward to seeing where it goes maybe I want more to flow like a story than a poem, with the rhymes a bonus treat, Dylan was a heavy rhymer,  thanks for sharing

[bob@mancity.net]

1696966565[/url]']
Since this is in basic, I'll give you some impressions I had throughout.  My first thought is this is pretty long, that's cool cause it's something Bob Dylan would do, but I think each one of his linss would be twice as long, that I think would feel a little better

1696917825[/url]']
Bob Dylan 1961-64

In nineteen sixty-one, he burst upon the scene.
They called him “Hammond’s Folly”, executives weren’t keen.
The bosses at Columbia thought John Hammond a fool.
brought Dylan off the street, and sat him on a stool.
But record sales were possible when they realised his technique.
Was not like other singers, and his style quite unique. 

He made his mark quickly from Duluth on a train.
Arriving in New York, through ice, snow and rain.
He’d get a devoted following his name up there in lights.
Joan Baez his Queen, he’d sing of Civil Rights.
Found work in the cafes, loved being on stage.
Had to Pass the basket, a dollar a day his wage. Ii don't understand pass the basket

Singing Guthrie songs, Guitar around his shoulder.
With lyrics that cut deep, harmonica in its holder.
Blowing in the wind, he would sing in Greenwich village.
He had a raw charisma, and a hobo like image.
He would sing of love and loss, of dreams and despair.
The poet from Minnesota, his folk songs he would share. awkward phrasing

Sing tales of heartache, and struggles blacks were facing.
Supporting Martin King, for the freedom he was chasing.
He would write his own songs, Other singers he’d outshine.
Challenging the status quo of an America in decline.
Emmitt Till and Hattie Carroll, Black people that’d been killed.
With these great songs of freedom, A great following, he would build.

He stood for justice and truth, with a rebel's fervent flame.
Unswayed by popularity, Just another pawn in the game.
Dylan kept changing, like a rolling stone. I I like the use of his songs throughout
Each verse would tell a story, the seeds he had sown.
His words resonated deeply, across the great divide.
Uniting hearts and souls, with each poetic stride.

So, the blacks of America finally became more free.
the young Bob Dylan, the country had heard his plea. Kinda awkward 
But he said they were only songs, and he never supported a cause.
And all he ever wanted was a crowd and an applause.
In the annals of history, He will be up there with the King.
An inspiration for many, For the beautiful songs he'd sing.

Times were a’ changin , life had become hectic.
and early Bob Dylan had now gone, in sixty-five he went electric. awkward
He said he was just a singer, not here to save the nation.
but his popularity would make him
the Voice of a Generation.

Sorry for reformatting, reading it like this now I notice the story better, maybe there should be more consistency in the length of each line, I can't hear it right I think.  Look forward to seeing where it goes maybe I want more to flow like a story than a poem, with the rhymes a bonus treat, Dylan was a heavy rhymer,  thanks for sharing

Brilliant,
thank you.
pass the basket around was what they did in the clubs and bars

basically it’s asking the audience for a little cash

really happy with the feedback
thank you