Tercios and ironclads

[TranquillityBase]

Duke,

Just wanted to add another reply but didn't want to clutter up NaPM.

I thought of guerilla war (on the Spanish question) but that has to go back to ever since there were kings.  But true, in a modern history since, that became a model I guess.

Your reply sent me to read about tercios, and those Crimean ironclads will be next.

One thing that shocked me was that Gibraltar was "biggest battle of War for American Independence".  Not used to thinking that other nations were involved and Europe was a theatre.

TqB

[dukealien]

Duke,

Just wanted to add another reply but didn't want to clutter up NaPM.

I thought of guerilla war (on the Spanish question) but that has to go back to ever since there were kings.  But true, in a modern history since, that became a model I guess.

Your reply sent me to read about tercios, and those Crimean ironclads will be next.

One thing that shocked me was that Gibraltar was "biggest battle of War for American Independence".  Not used to thinking that other nations were involved and Europe was a theatre.

TqB

The other greatest battle of the (American) Revolution was also in 1782 - the naval battle of The Saint(e)s (also Domenica),  which the French lost badly.  We Americans tend to idly wonder why nothing much happened between Yorktown and the Treaty of Paris... in fact, a great deal did, with the Royal Navy and British Army "sent to say stop (Kipling)" to French and Spanish aspirations.  This they did, decisively, so Britain kept Gibraltar and her West Indies possessions.  Admiral Rodney, who commanded brilliantly at the Saintes, was in large measure responsible for the defeat at Yorktown -  he left an inadequate fleet off Virginia while he plundered in the West Indies.  Which was duly trounced, leaving Cornwallis no escape from Yorktown.

Speaking of guerilla war, it certainly has no recent origin, merely revivals - though with some ingredients like ideology, religion, and dynasties added or subtracted.  For example, the British did *not* try to regain sub-Canadian America:  say what you will of militias, but that "rifle behind every blade of grass" thing is a deeply seated dread for professional armies.

Art:  you're probably familiar with Velasquez's "Surrender of Breda," which has a similar spirit to "Floating Batteries" but more emphatic.  Tercios there.

[RiverNotch]

See, I saw that thread title and thought "Civ?" xD

[Tiger the Lion]

Hey Tim. You can always ask a Mod if you want to split a thread. You've managed to do it on your own so we're all good. Thanks for the concern about weighing down the NaPM threads. It's helpful. Carry on as you were.

[TranquillityBase]

Duke,



Just wanted to add another reply but didn't want to clutter up NaPM.



I thought of guerilla war (on the Spanish question) but that has to go back to ever since there were kings.  But true, in a modern history since, that became a model I guess.



Your reply sent me to read about tercios, and those Crimean ironclads will be next.



One thing that shocked me was that Gibraltar was "biggest battle of War for American Independence".  Not used to thinking that other nations were involved and Europe was a theatre.



TqB

The other greatest battle of the (American) Revolution was also in 1782 - the naval battle of The Saint(e)s (also Domenica),  which the French lost badly.  We Americans tend to idly wonder why nothing much happened between Yorktown and the Treaty of Paris... in fact, a great deal did, with the Royal Navy and British Army "sent to say stop (Kipling)" to French and Spanish aspirations.  This they did, decisively, so Britain kept Gibraltar and her West Indies possessions.  Admiral Rodney, who commanded brilliantly at the Saintes, was in large measure responsible for the defeat at Yorktown -  he left an inadequate fleet off Virginia while he plundered in the West Indies.  Which was duly trounced, leaving Cornwallis no escape from Yorktown.



Speaking of guerilla war, it certainly has no recent origin, merely revivals - though with some ingredients like ideology, religion, and dynasties added or subtracted.  For example, the British did *not* try to regain sub-Canadian America:  say what you will of militias, but that "rifle behind every blade of grass" thing is a deeply seated dread for professional armies.



Art:  you're probably familiar with Velasquez's "Surrender of Breda," which has a similar spirit to "Floating Batteries" but more emphatic.  Tercios there.

In my younger days, I played war games (board games) with my ex-brother-in-law.  He always trounced me until I discovered a Thirty Years War game.  I forget which battle, but I finally defeated him in a game, playing the Imperialists to his Swedish side.  So I've always had a soft spot for the tercio system, but had never read about its structure and development. 

I almost used 
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entry_of_t...ix_012.jpg

for my ekphrastic poem.  An earlier tragedy in Constantinople's long downfall.

I collected a lot of games that I played solo, including a Crimean War set.  But the two that were always my favorites were Thirty Years War and Seige of Constantinople.

There were many naval games, but somehow those never attracted me so much.

Anyway, I've probably seen Surrender at Breda though it seemed new to me, because I've viewed many a painting of that time period, but thanks for sending it along.

[dukealien]

In my younger days, I played war games (board games) with my ex-brother-in-law.  He always trounced me until I discovered a Thirty Years War game.  I forget which battle, but I finally defeated him in a game, playing the Imperialists to his Swedish side.  So I've always had a soft spot for the tercio system, but had never read about its structure and development. 

I almost used 
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entry_of_t...ix_012.jpg

for my ekphrastic poem.  An earlier tragedy in Constantinople's long downfall.

I collected a lot of games that I played solo, including a Crimean War set.  But the two that were always my favorites were Thirty Years War and Seige of Constantinople.

There were many naval games, but somehow those never attracted me so much.

Anyway, I've probably seen Surrender at Breda though it seemed new to me, because I've viewed many a painting of that time period, but thanks for sending it along.

I switched to boardgames from miniatures when I "joined the colors" in '72.  Back then, wargaming was discouraged in my specialty:  it was practiced at higher levels, but if any of the actual users had played in civilian circles, how we did it could have been revealing.  Once back on a hobby basis, miniatures again, though I still have a large stack of S&T games... including Musket & Pike (g).

[TranquillityBase]

I switched to boardgames from miniatures when I "joined the colors" in '72.  Back then, wargaming was discouraged in my specialty:  it was practiced at higher levels, but if any of the actual users had played in civilian circles, how we did it could have been revealing.  Once back on a hobby basis, miniatures again, though I still have a large stack of S&T games... including Musket & Pike (g).

I also have a hoard of S&T games, collected while thinking I'd play them when I was retired.  But writing took their place.  Although I did attempt the big Gettysburg game at one point, but only got through the first day.

I hope there's an archive of those games in some enlightened library collection.