What's the breaking point?

[rowens]

There's going to be violence. Who do you target? What is the strategy?
I'm more interested in the nature of violence than I am in committing violence.
Malcolm X used violence as self-defense.
Violence actually reinforces the American system.
If you want to hit Capitalism, don't think in terms of -isms, that too is co-opted by the system. All this is built into the system.
Violence is only necessary when you are being shutdown. Physically shutdown.

Don't buy things you don't need. Learn to live with less. Do everything you can without expecting anything in return.
What is needed to survive? How can resources be rationed and shared and maintained?

What is the U. S.? 
How do you not be a third-world country? 
Who decides what it is that unites the states in a country?
Who decides borders? What comes first, the need for borders or the borders and the reasons come later?

What is the end solution? Is it something that must be improvised since to have a goal starting out leads to a static and distracted obsession with ideology?
People don't join the military with a goal in mind other than their own.

What is the nature of the Power that is the problem?

Security and Comfort are the American weapons. People want those things.

Would you start with a break from attachment to the sense of Security and Comfort that is, more than fear of an oppressive regime, the main barrier to a better set of living conditions in America?

---

If you pick up a gun, you'll be dead by the end of the day and labelled a terrorist.

How are you going to recruit your fighters?
What is their incentive?
What abilities do you have that will be effective to motivate your movement?

What do you get out of the bargain?
Are you ready to do it right now?

Are you interested in strategies and practical ability that you and others you feel competent in have? 
Are you willing to give your existence to this goal?
What is the goal?
How will you convince others?

Is theory strong, or is it a hindrance?

How do you choose your brothers in arms?
How do you decipher trust?

Are you ok with collateral damage? 

Have you ever fired a gun?

Have you ever killed a human being?


If the breaking point hasn't happened yet . . . ?


What is the relation of the people who shoot up schools to Capitalism?

Are you willing to sacrifice your family or anything for the goal?

How do you define freedom?


If you had all the people and equipment you needed to get the show on the road, what would you say right now at this moment as your rally cry?

---

What makes me and you and any of our compatriots any more capable than George Jackson and anyone we learn any of our tactics from?

What is going to be the deciding factor in this particular parlay against the U. S. Superpower?

What is the long searched out exception that will be a new deciding factor?

[Mark A Becker]

Those are all good questions rowens. Ones that 'armchair anarchists' should carefully consider before even getting out of bed.

---

Those are all good questions rowens.  Ones that 'armchair anarchists' should carefully consider before even getting out of bed.

---

A real example from recent US history, for a bit of context:

https://www.forgottenhistory.me/domestic...itol-march

[alonso ramoran]

There's going to be violence. Who do you target? What is the strategy?



I'm more interested in the nature of violence than I am in committing violence.

i don’t think there can be a strategy until we actually encounter the issue that demands that specific strategy. but again i do think the framework that would be most effective to work from is guerrilla warfare.

If you want to hit Capitalism, don't think in terms of -isms, that too is co-opted by the system. All this is built into the system.



Violence is only necessary when you are being shutdown. Physically shutdown.

some isms teach exactly not to think in terms of isms. what do you think of those isms?

What is the end solution? Is it something that must be improvised since to have a goal starting out leads to a static and distracted obsession with ideology?



People don't join the military with a goal in mind other than their own.

in a way, yes i do think the solution is something that must be improvised after investigating the current material conditions, otherwise we can become too dogmatic in our approaches.

What is the nature of the Power that is the problem?

the nature of power that’s the problem is that it’s concentrated in a way that makes our society top-heavy and stupid.

How are you going to recruit your fighters?



What is their incentive?

so i think gang members are the people most likely to gravitate towards urban guerilla warfare. but like i’ve said, the thing that i think must come first are the non-violent aspects. free clinics, community gardens and farms are all ideal, but in the situation for recruiting a lumpen proletarian strata of society such as gang members for guerrilla warfare, political education could be the non-violent strategy that spearheads the recruitment process, but ofc i think it must be done in tandem with the other nonviolent things that actually improves the material conditions of the area, otherwise you are simply an outsider that’s spewing some fantastical bullshit about socialist revolution, and that might not work out well for you if you’re talking to the wrong person.

What abilities do you have that will be effective to motivate your movement?

I'm trying to finish college to get my degree for architecture. After that I plan on living pretty much in debt and in poverty and using what knowledge I have for mutual aid. Shit is not my movement by the way.

What do you get out of the bargain?



Are you ready to do it right now?

No, but there are people out there who currently are and are putting in the work.

Are you interested in strategies and practical ability that you and others you feel competent in have? 



Are you willing to give your existence to this goal?

Yes

How will you convince others?

Mostly through action, hardly through debates.

Is theory strong, or is it a hindrance?

Theory is a must.

How do you choose your brothers in arms?



How do you decipher trust?

Based on how they serve their people.

Are you ok with collateral damage? 

This is why I think armed revolution must come after the nonviolent parts (ie building dual power). It must be launched not *with the consent of* the people, but BY the people. If the people have something that they built themselves and is now in danger of being destroyed, they will fight. But they must be shown that they can fight and they can win if they're to have that confidence, and that's where educating each other of other guerilla units around the world who have succeeded comes into play.

Have you ever fired a gun?

I've been shooting at a range but I've never had serious training before. I plan on it as well as training in martial arts like Muay Thai.

Have you ever killed a human being?

plead the 5th

What is the relation of the people who shoot up schools to Capitalism?

The violence of imperialism, which is, simply put, capitalism that expanded overseas since its nature is constant expansion, must come home to roost. These shootings are exactly that happening.

Are you willing to sacrifice your family or anything for the goal?

This all goes back to not being an adventurist and not doing whatever you want in the name of revolution.

How do you define freedom?

I'd like to take a speed rail from the East to West Coast with family and friends and maybe write a poem along the way without worrying about the expenses or encounters with bigots and abusers. I would like my sister to go out dancing one night and not have to worry about being on the news the next morning, or simply forgotten, with her killer on the loose because maybe he's a police officer. I'd like to own the things I produce along with the workers around me. I want us all to be proud of our work because we made it while we were adequately fed and sheltered and because of that it's work made with love and care. I want black and brown babies to not be ashamed of how they look. I want our babies to not fear going to school because our culture breeds nihilistic fucks and tells them it's okay to have a gun that's meant for killing large quantities of people. I want a world where structures are built by and for disabled folks. This is freedom, and there's still more to it. I won't compact its definition to a single broad-sweeping sentence.

If you had all the people and equipment you needed to get the show on the road, what would you say right now at this moment as your rally cry?



What makes me and you and any of our compatriots any more capable than George Jackson and anyone we learn any of our tactics from?









What is going to be the deciding factor in this particular parlay against the U. S. Superpower?







What is the long searched out exception that will be a new deciding factor?

These last questions are all kinda idealistic that should be answered when the time comes. Until then, there's no use in mulling them over.

[Mark A Becker]

I'd like to take a speed rail from the East to West Coast with family and friends and maybe write a poem along the way...

Spoken like a true revolutionary.

[alonso ramoran]

I'd like to take a speed rail from the East to West Coast with family and friends and maybe write a poem along the way...

Spoken like a true revolutionary.

Yeah I kinda thought twice about it after posting, but whatever lmao

[NobodyNothing]

Up till now and for the foreseeable future, the best thing we've come up with for social, political, and economic organization is a mix between a liberal democratic state and the capitalist free enterprise system.  There really is no reason in and of itself why this model can't work effectively for all other than our own greed, irresponsibility, ignorance, and stupidity.

[rowens]

Most of my questions have been given fair trial.

I can give more consideration to answers, Becker, Velasco, anybody.

This is a dumb question that I'll lead with, but it's always a consideration.
How do we know that our compatriots won't rape our sisters, saying they even survives the fiasco?

This question works on the notion of America's greatest asset, the illusion of Comfort and Security.

It's not my end all end all argument. It's not an argument at all. Simply a specific window to look through in case anyone wants to handle it.

---

People might assume sexism. I plotted that into my response. Rape our sisters?

That's my approach. I'm old-fashioned.
I don't want anyone to rape my sisters.

I don't have any brothers.
So what do I care if someone rapes my brother?
That's cultural appropriation.

[CRNDLSM]

As an armchair anarchist, I'll do whatever I have to do when the time comes, and whatever I want to do in the mean time. But I'll probably protest anyone telling me what to do, I just hope what I want to do is the right thing to do.  Maybe when the time comes

[NobodyNothing]

As an armchair anarchist, I'll do whatever I have to do when the time comes, and whatever I want to do in the mean time. But I'll probably protest anyone telling me what to do, I just hope what I want to do is the right thing to do.  Maybe when the time comes

Good you don't live under authoritarian rule.  Liberal democracy is much easier on anarchists.

[alonso ramoran]

I'd like to take a speed rail from the East to West Coast with family and friends and maybe write a poem along the way...

Spoken like a true revolutionary.

I gave it more thought and freedom on a personal level to me means being given the space where I'm allowed to grow again and begin healing. I'm pretty sure I have really severe social anxiety issues that I just don't know how to address, along with other issues. The way we handle mental health issues not only through our institutions but just in our everyday interactions with others (family, friends, associates, strangers) is toxic. Our relationships and institutions reflect each other at different scales. The shit about taking cross continental speed rails is idealistic for our time---I think this is as concrete as I can get for myself when speaking about freedom, but I'm pretty sure there's other things not coming to mind. When I move to another town next month, I'm gonna be paying my own rent and all the other stuff you need to live. I'm pretty sure it'll mean something new to me by then. The other stuff I said I'll stand on though. Freedom is being fed and living with dignity and feeling secure. Trusting in each other again. Restorative justice. Freedom is that and more, and it won't be politely handed over by the perpetrators.

Most of my questions have been given fair trial.

I can give more consideration to answers, Becker, Velasco, anybody.

This is a dumb question that I'll lead with, but it's always a consideration.
How do we know that our compatriots won't rape our sisters, saying they even survives the fiasco?

This question works on the notion of America's greatest asset, the illusion of Comfort and Security.

It's not my end all end all argument. It's not an argument at all. Simply a specific window to look through in case anyone wants to handle it.

---

People might assume sexism. I plotted that into my response. Rape our sisters?

That's my approach. I'm old-fashioned.
I don't want anyone to rape my sisters.

I don't have any brothers.
So what do I care if someone rapes my brother?
That's cultural appropriation.

If that occurs, that needs to be solved within the community within the framework of restorative justice. This is defined on Wikipedia as "an approach to justice where one of the responses to a crime is to organize a meeting between the victim and the offender, sometimes with representatives of the wider community." But yeah there should be zero tolerance for any sort of sexual violence or misconduct in these spaces. Which is why I think to prevent that from occurring, these spaces should be led and curated by women.

[rowens]

Do you think women are less dangerous, because less capable of danger? Sexual or otherwise?
Questions always come up.


And should people be fed?
That's a question.
Should they feed themselves?
Not only the question of should they have the means to supply for their own demand, the land and resources and every other ability to do so, also what should be eaten? People have different nutritional needs.
Then there's the question of doctors. Expert doctors spring out of Capitalist resources and training and specialties.

These questions keep arising.

Some of these questions don't arise outside of the Comfort and Security paradigm of First-World countries.

Should they arise? People get used to a certain way of life. And that what I said in that sentence could be taken in many directions.

[Mark A Becker]

When I move to another town next month, I'm gonna be paying my own rent and all the other stuff you need to live. I'm pretty sure it'll mean something new to me by then. 

Good. Being responsible for one's self is a big step toward caring for others. I guarantee that it will mean something new to you, and I wish you the best of luck.

The poem that started this thread ends on a (sorta) hopeful note.  I have read a lot of Langston Hughes, and much appreciate his perspective.  He opened my eyes to many things that I did not notice, that were right in front of me. 

Did it make me a better person?  I doubt it, but it widened my field of view.

I know that America is a very messy place, and I also know that I am responsible for some of that mess.  As I've gotten older, I have tried to be responsible for myself, and those around me.  I do not always do a very good job of it.   

---

These questions keep arising.

Isn't life but one question asking another?

[rowens]

People hear that people don't ask enough questions in society.

As soon as you learn how to use language and conceptual processing, the mind is trained to answer questions and, from that, assume that everything is a question.

Everything is a problem. And endless problems are never enough. Even problems themselves aren't enough. They are split into splits and more splits.

[CRNDLSM]

My biggest split is the personality river that hits a blunt trauma and splits into two rivers which split into two streams at the next trauma and so forth until I'm a soggy blobby tributary not quite in the ocean yet. Rivers are violent.

[rowens]

Maybe you require a breaking point.

[CRNDLSM]

When Russia invaded Ukraine didn't you imagine your own neighborhood a war zone? No time to escape,

[rowens]

When I was a kid, I used to spend all my time worried that my family would be murdered every moment I wasn't seeing them. That's why I couldn't pay attention in school. Until only a few years ago, wherever I went, I kept an eye out for people opening their car door and stepping out with a gun. I had visions of violence and death and various other unsavory things in my mind every moment since I was five years old until last year. I always found horror movies useful because they taught me ways to aestheticize my obsessive fears. I'd never felt any sense of security in the world around me or in my mind or body or for other people until last year. When I'd drink to get rid of those fears, I'd wake up with those fears turned up past 11. And there never was a breaking point, the more I learned the more agile my mind became in coming up with agonizing torture chambers for me to fight through every moment of every day and night and in my dreams.
So I simply killed myself and went on living.

It also helps to imagine that I'm Denzel Washington in Book of Eli, walking around on an Earth already blown away and occupied by dealers of death.