When I stopped believing

[philip]

When I stopped believing

no shining revelation nor vision in the night
but a creeping realisation that something wasn't right
too many questions without answer and he gently fell from grace
I am orphaned by my father with none to take his place.

so I laid that final straw and like the snow-drift in the field
my heart began to slowly thaw and the awful truth revealed
that I was blissful in my blindness though misguided by my kin
to a witness of each kindness and the consequence of sin.

but now that I am older with empty skies above
the world is that much colder without his gift of love
when I stopped believing
winter came hard that day
for ever he was leaving
with reindeer to guide his sleigh.

[CRNDLSM]

When I stopped believing

no shining revelation nor vision in the night
but a creeping realisation that something wasn't right
too many questions without answer and he gently fell from grace this line seems an abrupt change in the middle
I am orphaned by my father with none to take his place.

so I laid that final straw and like the snow-drift in the field
my heart began to slowly thaw and the awful truth revealed in the steady rythyms I want to rush the awful truth
that I was blissful in my blindness though misguided by my kin
to a witness of each kindness and the consequence of sin. I think the sonics work too well for clarity, my kin, witness, 

but now that I am older with empty skies above
the world is that much colder without his gift of love the father's gift? Older but still without the gift of love or was the time of orphanage important
when I stopped believing I like this change in rythym
winter came hard that day
for ever he was leaving
with reindeer to guide his sleigh. He died on Christmas so Santa isn't real. 

Like a parody of the night before Christmas?  Thanks for sharing

[dukealien]

When I stopped believing

no shining revelation nor vision in the night
but a creeping realisation that something wasn't right
too many questions without answer and he gently fell from grace perhaps "so" or "'til" to show consequential relationship in place of "and"
I am orphaned by my father with none to take his place. this seems to fit neither God nor St. Nick, but the feeling is right... better word than "orphaned?"

so I laid that final straw and like the snow-drift in the field a line with no skipped beat here
my heart began to slowly thaw and the awful truth revealed
that I was blissful in my blindness though misguided by my kin
to a witness of each kindness and the consequence of sin. somewhat twisty way of saying "he knows when you've been bad or good" was a useful myth... but on first read, hard to decipher

but now that I am older with empty skies above oh, you're definitely trying for that God/St.N ambiguity! (g)
the world is that much colder without his gift of love
when I stopped believing
winter came hard that day
for ever he was leaving
with reindeer to guide his sleigh. saved the reveal for the very end - excellent!

---

Nice, with a sneaky turn at the end (if, as I did, the reader begins the first time through thinking the no longer believed-in is God rather than his Saint Nicholas).

However, what the poem gains by that delightful plot is somewhat compromised by the sometimes forced rhyme and, especially, lack of definite meter.  Each line seems to have a randomly placed skip-beat, seldom in the same place twice; I believe a regular meter (violated for dramatic purposes) could really strengthen its impact.

One example (please pardon the rewrite)...  you have

     but now that I am older [beat] with empty skies above

which could be

     but now that I am older seeing empty skies above 

for a simple two-beat meter.  You needn't go all the way to a patter lyric, but perhaps try saving the missed-beat for moments of surprise, like an emphasized comma.

That's about all I have in basic critique... it's a nice conceit, which (when turned back on itself at third reading) tells the reader something about his relationship with a God that (he thinks) failed.

[philip]

Hello Crndlsm,

Thank you for taking your time to read and comment on my poem.

I mean no disrespect that I'm not surprised that you did not understand it.
It's one of those poems, you either get it or you don't.

that's how it is..........P

[philip]

Hello Duke,

Thank you for dropping by and commenting.

I'm not that bothered about perfect meter (obviously!) as long as the poem reads OK.
Some rhymes are forced? - Which ones?

I am orphaned by my father - Father Christmas of course.

cheers.................P

[rowens]

When I stopped believing

no shining 
in the night

 I lay

 snow-drift,



that day,

he was leaving
with reindeer to guide his sleigh.

---

I did that. But I typed something else about what you typed, and I guess I typed it too fast, and it got deleted.

---

Now I had more to say. And I will. But only if you want me to. And most of what I said got deleted. I've been working on my cheap technology all night, and I prefer it.

[rowens]

I'm back here reading it again.

---

I see the familial theme mixed in there, that works, but not hard enough. I'm reading it over and over, seeing if I can catch more of it. The rhymes assume more patterns, but, they don't have to be there.

---

I see the paternal connection, but it's not clear enough from the Santa Claus, yet too clear if the daddy Claus isn't there. Is it too simple, or too complex?

---

Yes. That's what I see. The poem seems heavy, as it should, but doesn't pull through the heaviness. Santa Claus's existence can be a heavy layer weighty thing. But this poem isn't doing it. It's just bordering on it.

---

The paternal father, christ, Santa Nick, some beliefs. There's lots to seriously play with.

[philip]

Hello Rowens,
thank you for commenting (and persevering!),

As the final line makes crystal clear, this poem is entirely about Father Christmas.

I'm not sure what you mean by heaviness, and rhymes that 'don't have to be there'? - they drive the narration, as well as being pretty?

'The paternal father, christ, Santa Nick, some beliefs' - I reckon misconception of the subject is the whole point....

Appreciate your time and thoughts............P

[rowens]

If you don't believe, why do you bother writing on the subject. Some flickering chromosome somewhere in the world is flashing Christmas.

Notice I didn't use a question mark.

[philip]

Hello Rowens, happy Christmas.

Flickering chromosome? Every town square and chapel in the western world is screaming Christmas!

And you are making the classic mistake of mixing up the narrator with the author.
What the author actually believes is inconsequential to the poem.

cheers...........Philip

[rowens]

But is the poem inconsequential to the author? That time I did use a question mark.

I'm talking to the narrator.

---

Post a thread in the discussion board, so we can get to the heart of this matter. Else people will say it's inconsequential to this thread.

[philip]

Rowens,

The ONLY thing of consequence to this author is the reader's opinion of THE POEM.

Are there any obvious errors that need addressing, does it flow well, do the rhymes work, does the theme and message come across,
is the poem entertaining in some small way? You know, that sort of thing - that might actually be useful in improving my poetry.

Merry New Year...............P

[rowens]

My opinions don't matter. They could be anyone. As could I. As could you. Even the narrator. Grown up and still pestered over something he stopped believing in decades ago.
All the sonics leave a gap, a hole, or a sentiment of straw. I'm more interested in the narrator, who obviously has some stake in the matter. The direction each line takes is guided by the inner and outer rhymes a-jingling, and since that's the case, the narrative, or the lyric, sounds more sketchy than complete. The content isn't as smoothly laid as it could be.

[philip]

Rowens,

thank you reading and commenting (this is more like it!).
Yes, your opinions certainly do matter, since you have taken the time and trouble to critique the poem.

It is entirely your assumption that the narrator is 'grown up', no doubt thrown by the supposedly theological language. But that's fine.

I have to take issue with your comment that the lines are 'guided' by the rhymes - for me, every rhyme drives the narration - an example of what you mean would have been handy.

'Sounds sketchy'? - good, that's exactly the effect I was after. I'm covering two completely different belief systems within a single narration, so non-specificity is in order here.

'The content isn't as smoothly laid as it could be.' - I don't know what you mean by this, again, an example would help.

Now I'm off to celebrate with my bubble, and the end of 2020!

Nastrovia!..............P

[rowens]

That's why I want to talk to the narrator. You said it's entirely about Father Christmas, and two belief systems. It can be about more than one belief system while still about Father Christmas, entirely. And the theological language mightn't be there, since you can have belief systems with no theological language.
Now the narrator might still be a child, still believing, or pining over a recently lost belief, or indifferent, or not really indifferent, but just saying. The narrator might not be a child, or a human.
And the father might be so much about Christmas that no other father could be that way of Christmas.
This is all clear.
The sense of jumping around is in it. The thinking, the connecting of ideas or concepts, these come off as haphazard, what I meant by sketchy. More like a compiling of loose ideas, and so no mood, no real effect, and the music of it is somehow more of a distraction, and it's hard to find what you're being distracted from.
I want to say things that the rules of this thread restrict. You seem to have no restrictions, and nothing to restrict. It seems simple and straight forward a poem, and I want to read more from it, and the little I get seems not even there.

I read poems as realities, and narrators as living things. I don't get any sense of a narrator. No overall, no lasting effect. I want to pull the narrator out a little. A poem like this, it seems a narrator shouldn't be so loss behind the sound.


start stop start stop start start start stop

That's all I feel in the rhythm, and the content seems lost in that.


Every year's a new year for me.

[Erthona]

philip,

Although the poem is based on a nominal seven foot line, the obvious couplets tend to make it sing-song and thus undercuts the seriousness of the topic. Breaking the last two lines into four does not seem to do anything positive for the poem. For readability please cap the beginning of sentences. All of these things tend to break the reader's attention and thus takes the reader out of the poem. The form of a poem, whether formal or not should strive to keep the reader immersed in the poem, not stopping to sort out the technical merits of the poem.

Though loss of innocence is a well worn theme, the idea of being orphaned by Father Christmas brings a fresh perspective.

best,

dale

[philip]

Hello Rowens,
thank you for your input - which I'll take as a positive.

Hello Dale,
thank you for commenting.

Yes, lack of caps etc - really, this poem doesn't need cluttering, and hopefully, the sparseness gives the text an innocent feel.
Obvious couplets of 'sing song' ? - (at least the rhythm and rhymes seem to work) 'undercuts the seriousness' - I really like that insight.

'Breaking the last two lines into four...'
Yes, first off, I need to slow the ending down, otherwise it all sounds a bit rushed, and I feel the final revelation works much better as a stand alone line (as does the repeat of the title).

I appreciate the encouraging words...............Philip