Three Women in a Small Town

[Valerie Please]

This isn't done, but I wanted feedback before I do anything else with it. These three characters are interconnected and it might be part of a larger story if I keep messing around with it. I have ideas for things I might want to change, but I love other people's opinions, too.

Viola Martin
Viola Martin rolled into town
Dusty road and Studebaker gown 
Wavy blonde hair with smooth cloche hat:
What did the town think about that?

Gas station husband pumps off the porch 
Neighbor widow is hot for the church
Viola smooths on red lipstick
Venetian blinds close with a click

Elsie Brown

Blinds flutter shut, eyelashes cast down
Her rosy cheeks flushed, heart takes a bound
Gas station wife, Elsie so plain
Dishwater life, John’s ball and chain 

Little sparrow flits, smooths her brown hair
Fast smacks the arrow seeing the pair 
John pumping gas his jaw hangs slack
Viola’s red lips looking back

Elsie Brown’s kitchen, antique green walls
Spotless today, but Elsie recalls
a crystal gazer said she’d seen
wet poppies on a field of green.

Rachel Miller

Rachel Miller is straight as a board
Raises an eyebrow, praises the lord
Swears she can smell that red lipstick
smeared on creamy and way too thick

She sits in the pew Sundays at eight
Stained glass picture of the pearly gate
The early sun rays warm her hands
Crimson stains where justice will land

Sin gets washed the blood of the lamb
Souls come dirty to the Great I Am
They will be cleansed white from the flow
The rent to the mend so Rachel goes

[Joyful Noise]

Well, I for one would be absolutely thrilled to learn more about these women if you do end up weaving them into a larger narrative. A general suggestion would be to really hone in on the sonority, the flow. Some phrases have a really lovely lilt, so the ones that don’t suffer all the more in comparison. I get a very 50s vibe from the piece (not sure if I am interpreting that correctly, of course), so I feel it would be nice to sprinkle in some more 50s-esque jargon to really paint the picture. Greater specificity (“chestnut” instead of “brown,” “wind-strewn” instead of “dusty”, etc.) and fewer clichés (“ball and chain,” “straight as a board”), though I will admit the latter does add a sense of playfulness. Really enjoyable read.

[busker]

I don't think a simple aabb rhyme scheme works very well for narrative poetry of any respectable length. It wears out the reader's ears. I'd suggest going for something more complex, or mixing it up a little bit.

---

To add to that: abab is just as bad.

[Valerie Please]

Thank you for the read and for the feedback. 

Typically, I like to take opinions and just decide if I agree, but I think I'd like to open a discussion, if anyone is interested about the notion of a cliche and its function or dysfunction within poetry, since cliches are to be avoided, at all costs and we all know this as a rule.

I'd argue that I'm not using cliches so much as I am using idiomatic expressions. You are correct that I am going for a certain period mode here (studebaker, cloche hat . . . I agree that I could use some more of these time and place signifiers) so I am also going for idioms that convey that place, time, and way of thinking. I'd argue for the blatant and intentional use of these as a cultural shorthand that mimics everyday speech and thought.  

However the distinction between a cliche and an idiom is certainly very thin. Really a cliche is an idiom that has lost its impact. So yes, I can understand that heavily idiomatic writing risks a voice is that overly quirky and contrived. 

It might just depend on how your grandpappy used to talk at you when he took you to the fishing hole down in the holler. Maybe nobody ever said anything so ridiculous to you and it sounds utterly contrived and cliche. Or maybe it just sounds like the wallpaper in your subconscious. 

Thoughts?

Well, I for one would be absolutely thrilled to learn more about these women if you do end up weaving them into a larger narrative. A general suggestion would be to really hone in on the sonority, the flow. Some phrases have a really lovely lilt, so the ones that don’t suffer all the more in comparison. I get a very 50s vibe from the piece (not sure if I am interpreting that correctly, of course), so I feel it would be nice to sprinkle in  some more 50s-esque jargon to really paint the picture. Greater specificity (“chestnut” instead of “brown,” “wind-strewn” instead of “dusty”, etc.) and fewer clichés (“ball and chain,” “straight as a board”), though I will admit the latter does add a sense of playfulness. Really enjoyable read.

[Knot]

.
Hi Valerie,

I agree with busker on the rhyme scheme, I don't think it serves this piece/these pieces well and taking your point about idiom/cliché - 'rolled into town' is nothing if not clichéd and hits the wrong note right from the start.

It's difficult to know, without benefit of the 'larger' narrative' whether these sketches are in the right order. Leaving 'Viola' till last might allow the town to be established through the other two characters, and make that annoying question redundant. The reader might have enough information to infer the 'town's reaction' without you having to highlight it. Maybe the verses should be intercut with one another?

I also liked the period details (crystal gazer, was nice), that sense of 1940/50s melodrama, more of those, less of 'fast smack the arrow' please

I enjoyed the unintentional ambiguity in
Rachel Miller is straight as a board
Raises an eyebrow, praises the lord
(either she causes eyebrows to be raised, or raises her own)
but the rhyme scheme really does such a severe character a disservice.


Best, Knot


.

[Valerie Please]

I think that’s fair and it’s a concern of mine. 

I don't think a simple aabb rhyme scheme works very well for narrative poetry of any respectable length. It wears out the reader's ears. I'd suggest going for something more complex, or mixing it up a little bit.

---

To add to that: abab is just as bad.

---

I also think the meter needs to get changed up, too, honestly.

.
Hi Valerie,

I agree with busker on the rhyme scheme, I don't think it serves this piece/these pieces well and taking your point about idiom/cliché - 'rolled into town' is nothing if not clichéd and hits the wrong note right from the start.

It's difficult to know, without benefit of the 'larger' narrative' whether these sketches are in the right order. Leaving 'Viola' till last might allow the town to be established through the other two characters, and make that annoying question redundant. The reader might have enough information to infer the 'town's reaction' without you having to highlight it. Maybe the verses should be intercut with one another?

I also liked the period details (crystal gazer, was nice), that sense of 1940/50s melodrama, more of those, less of 'fast smack the arrow' please

I enjoyed the unintentional ambiguity in
Rachel Miller is straight as a board
Raises an eyebrow, praises the lord
(either she causes eyebrows to be raised, or raises her own)
but the rhyme scheme really does such a severe character a disservice.


Best, Knot


.

[Exit]

This isn't done, but I wanted feedback before I do anything else with it. These three characters are interconnected and it might be part of a larger story if I keep messing around with it. I have ideas for things I might want to change, but I love other people's opinions, too.

Viola Martin
Viola Martin rolled into town
Dusty road and Studebaker gown 
Wavy blonde hair with smooth cloche hat:
What did the town think about that?

Gas station husband pumps off the porch 
Neighbor widow is hot for the church
Viola smooths on red lipstick
Venetian blinds close with a click

Elsie Brown

Blinds flutter shut, eyelashes cast down
Her rosy cheeks flushed, heart takes a bound
Gas station wife, Elsie so plain
Dishwater life, John’s ball and chain 

Little sparrow flits, smooths her brown hair
Fast smacks the arrow seeing the pair 
John pumping gas his jaw hangs slack
Viola’s red lips looking back

Elsie Brown’s kitchen, antique green walls
Spotless today, but Elsie recalls
a crystal gazer said she’d seen
wet poppies on a field of green.

Rachel Miller

Rachel Miller is straight as a board
Raises an eyebrow, praises the lord
Swears she can smell that red lipstick
smeared on creamy and way too thick

She sits in the pew Sundays at eight
Stained glass picture of the pearly gate
The early sun rays warm her hands
Crimson stains where justice will land

Sin gets washed the blood of the lamb
Souls come dirty to the Great I Am
They will be cleansed white from the flow
The rent to the mend so Rachel goes

I think using couplets or quatrains is fine (On Paradise Lost, The Rime of the Ancient Mariner, anything by Wordsworth, Blake—the list goes on of epic simple-rhyming narrative poems). And I like it here, it works. Or at least it would work but unfortunately—like I think I have mentioned before on another one of your poems—the meter is letting you down. The rhymes are (mostly) working but I'm struggling with the rhythm. Maybe read it out loud and, tedious as it is, count syllables. You're even forcing rhymes like "the early sun rays warm her hands / crimson stains where justice WILL land" but there seems no reason to force "will" (in this instance) because nothing else fits. If you wanted to hit the rhyme and rhythm why not "the sun's early rays warm her hands / crimson stains where justice lands"? And I'm not sure that would even work in the context of the whole poem because there is no baseline meter. 

Having said all that, I liked reading it and there is definitely something here to cultivate. But, if you are going to improve it it's up to you to get into the boring work of actually counting syllables and finding ways to not force rhymes. Also, this is all premised on the idea that you want to make it tighter. Most poetry will sacrifice a certain amount of rhythm for meaningful rhyme (or rhyme for meaningful rhythm) it just strikes me that you are aiming for both and only failing on the rhythm part.

[Valerie Please]

The function of will in the line is foreshadowing. So that's why it is there because it is referring to a future event. 

This isn't done, but I wanted feedback before I do anything else with it. These three characters are interconnected and it might be part of a larger story if I keep messing around with it. I have ideas for things I might want to change, but I love other people's opinions, too.

Viola Martin
Viola Martin rolled into town
Dusty road and Studebaker gown 
Wavy blonde hair with smooth cloche hat:
What did the town think about that?

Gas station husband pumps off the porch 
Neighbor widow is hot for the church
Viola smooths on red lipstick
Venetian blinds close with a click

Elsie Brown

Blinds flutter shut, eyelashes cast down
Her rosy cheeks flushed, heart takes a bound
Gas station wife, Elsie so plain
Dishwater life, John’s ball and chain 

Little sparrow flits, smooths her brown hair
Fast smacks the arrow seeing the pair 
John pumping gas his jaw hangs slack
Viola’s red lips looking back

Elsie Brown’s kitchen, antique green walls
Spotless today, but Elsie recalls
a crystal gazer said she’d seen
wet poppies on a field of green.

Rachel Miller

Rachel Miller is straight as a board
Raises an eyebrow, praises the lord
Swears she can smell that red lipstick
smeared on creamy and way too thick

She sits in the pew Sundays at eight
Stained glass picture of the pearly gate
The early sun rays warm her hands
Crimson stains where justice will land

Sin gets washed the blood of the lamb
Souls come dirty to the Great I Am
They will be cleansed white from the flow
The rent to the mend so Rachel goes

I think using couplets or quatrains is fine (On Paradise Lost, The Rime of the Ancient Mariner, anything by Wordsworth, Blake—the list goes on of epic simple-rhyming narrative poems). And I like it here, it works. Or at least it would work but unfortunately—like I think I have mentioned before on another one of your poems—the meter is letting you down. The rhymes are (mostly) working but I'm struggling with the rhythm. Maybe read it out loud and, tedious as it is, count syllables. You're even forcing rhymes like "the early sun rays warm her hands / crimson stains where justice WILL land" but there seems no reason to force "will" (in this instance) because nothing else fits. If you wanted to hit the rhyme and rhythm why not "the sun's early rays warm her hands / crimson stains where justice lands"? And I'm not sure that would even work in the context of the whole poem because there is no baseline meter. 

Having said all that, I liked reading it and there is definitely something here to cultivate. But, if you are going to improve it it's up to you to get into the boring work of actually counting syllables and finding ways to not force rhymes. Also, this is all premised on the idea that you want to make it tighter. Most poetry will sacrifice a certain amount of rhythm for meaningful rhyme (or rhyme for meaningful rhythm) it just strikes me that you are aiming for both and only failing on the rhythm part.

[busker]

As Exit points out, Coleridge's 'Rime' was in couplets. Actually, so was 'Christabel'. The meter, however, is quite different:
'it IS an ANcient MAriNER and he STOPpeth ONE of THREE
by thy HAND and EYE thou GREYbeard LOON now WHEREfore STOPPETH thou ME'
as I recall.
I'm not the world's best at scansion - the late Leanne was the nonpareil in that department - but you get the idea.
Not familiar with WW's longer rhyming works (The Prelude or Tintern Abbey don't rhyme, as I recall) or Blake's. A lot of Blake is quite terrible by present day standards and is only read as a historical curiosity, much like Shakespeare's mundane sonnets, let's admit it.

[Exit]

As Exit points out, Coleridge's 'Rime' was in couplets. Actually, so was 'Christabel'. The meter, however, is quite different:
'it IS an ANcient MAriNER and he STOPpeth ONE of THREE
by thy HAND and EYE thou GREYbeard LOON now WHEREfore STOPPETH thou ME'
as I recall.
I'm not the world's best at scansion - the late Leanne was the nonpareil in that department - but you get the idea.
Not familiar with WW's longer rhyming works (The Prelude or Tintern Abbey don't rhyme, as I recall) or Blake's. A lot of Blake is quite terrible by present-day standards and is only read as a historical curiosity, much like Shakespeare's mundane sonnets, let's admit it.

Exactly! I don't think this has a consistent meter. But needs one. I think it should be 5, 3, 3, 4 (or 8 7). But that was just based on the "will" line that seemed to force an inexplicable rhyme. And as I said my suggestion might not be consistent with the rest of the poem. However, I do think a consistent syllable count and stress-awareness would benefit the poem. 

And how dare you say Blake is anything but a genius! If it weren't for Blake life would be unbearable. :*

[Valerie Please]

The “Great I Am” is a term for God, mostly used by evangelical Christians. It’s a reference to the dialogue between God and Moses in Exodus (“I am who I am.)

I agree that this is started, but definitely not finished and I want to keep messing with the structure.

Thanks for the read.

Is this poem about the lives of three characters? I didn't really understand it at first, but now I get it, also what is the "Great I Am?"

I thought this poem needed some punctuation and a change of rhyme and meter, write this in a triplet or quatrain if you will. Just a thought.

Thanks for sharing Valerie.

[busker]

I can't say I'm the resident expert on window screens, but don't blinds close more with a ropey, twacky sort of noise? Shutters, on the other hand, if they are made of the right material, can close quickly with a click.

That's a hair
split right there.
~au pair

[Valerie Please]

I'm still trying to get my head around how "rolling into town" isn't just a thing that you say in your world. We roll in all kinds of places here and nobody bats an eye. Sometimes we might roll on up in there, too.

But this! I take it as a compliment that I've annoyed you enough for you to come back and critique my description of the sound made by blinds. I might frame this comment and hang it on my wall.

So, blinds. If they have that stick closure that you turn, then no, they absolutely do not click. But if you have the wide flat ones with the string closure and you pull them with the just right determination and passion, I guarantee they can produce a click. 

I can't say I'm the resident expert on window screens, but don't blinds close more with a ropey, twacky sort of noise? Shutters, on the other hand, if they are made of the right material, can close quickly with a click.

That's a hair
split right there.
~au pair

[busker]

I'm still trying to get my head around how "rolling into town" isn't just a thing that you say in your world. We roll in all kinds of places here and nobody bats an eye. Sometimes we might roll on up in there, too.

I think you’re thinking of someone else

[Valerie Please]

Ah! Fair! I'll remove the strike against you.

I'm still trying to get my head around how "rolling into town" isn't just a thing that you say in your world. We roll in all kinds of places here and nobody bats an eye. Sometimes we might roll on up in there, too.

I think you’re thinking of someone else