“Master,” asked his thoughtful student,
“why is Silver Ocean higher
at some places than at others?
Here it overtops a sea-wall,
but, a few li back, its churning
stopped six bu below. Can it be
that sea-level is not truly
just the same at every place?
“Is our world askew, oh Master,
under Ninefold Heaven, tilting
west, or north, or to the South?”
“Fool!” his master said, but sagely,
“What makes you believe a wall men
built is level as an ocean?
Some who build, skimp, stopping lower
than they’re bidden, and yet others
build too high because they pocket
money for each stone they lay.
“If all men would do exactly
as the Son of Heaven orders
in his wisdom, Middle Kingdom
would not suffer flood or famine.”
But, so saying, Master winked.
edit1;
“Master,” asked his thoughtful student,
“why is Silver Ocean higher
at some places than at others?
Here it overtops a sea-wall,
but, a few li back, its churning
stopped six bu below. Can it be
that sea-level is not truly
just the same at every place?
“Has this world a slant, oh Master,
just as Ninefold Heaven angles
over all its lands and seas?”
“Fool!” his master said, but sagely,
“What makes you believe a wall men
built is level as an ocean?
Some who build, skimp, stopping lower
than they’re bidden, and yet others
build too high because they pocket
money for each stone they lay.
“If all men would do exactly
as the Son of Heaven orders
in his wisdom, Middle Kingdom
would not suffer flood or famine.”
But, so saying, Master winked.
original version;
“Master,” asked his eager student,
“why is Ocean’s level higher
at some places than at others?
Here it overtops a sea-wall,
but, a few leagues back, its water
stopped six fathoms down. Can it be
that sea-level is not truly
just the same at every place?
“Has this world a curve, oh Master,
just as Ninefold Heaven arches
over all its lands and seas?”
“Fool!” his master said, but kindly,
“what makes you believe a wall men
built is level as an ocean?
Some who build, skimp, stopping lower
than they promised, and yet others
build too high because they pocket
money for each stone they lay.
“If all men would do exactly
as the Son of Heaven orders
in his wisdom, Middle Kingdom
would not suffer flood or famine.”
But, so saying, Master winked.
while i like it as a piece of confusionism, [i made that word up] and an insight. for me it's a delightful story but needs a little more metaphor/simile. other than that maybe a few more poetic devices. that said. they're not completely needed but would turn a good story into a better poem. all that said, i did enjoy it's answer which if read correctly shows Confucius thinking the earth is flat and level. but and this is a big but...goes on to wink and show he doesn't really think it flat.
(12-14-2018, 10:40 AM)dukealien Wrote: Of the Laws (A Missing Analect)
“Master,” asked his eager student,
“why is Ocean’s level higher
at some places than at others?
Here it overtops a sea-wall,
but, a few leagues back, its water
stopped six fathoms down. Can it be
that sea-level is not truly
just the same at every place? missing end quotes
“Has this world a curve, oh Master,
just as Ninefold Heaven arches
over all its lands and seas?”
“Fool!” his master said, but kindly,
“what makes you believe a wall men
built is level as an ocean?
Some who build, skimp, stopping lower
than they promised, and yet others
build too high because they pocket
money for each stone they lay. again no end quotes
“If all men would do exactly
as the Son of Heaven orders
in his wisdom, Middle Kingdom
would not suffer flood or famine.”
But, so saying, Master winked.
Of the Laws (A Missing Analect)
- I think billy has offered a much better title
with his excellent 'Confusionism'.
“Master,” asked his eager student,
- This doesn't seem quite as formal
as a couple of the translations I
skimmed, why not: Eager Student asked his Master:
“why is Ocean’s level higher
- can't put my finger on it, but
'Ocean's level' seems wrong (not
to mention the repetition of 'level'
in S4. (Also, is it the right term,
given 'Ninefold Heaven'?) at some places than at others? Here it overtops a sea-wall,
- would like to know where 'here'
is (surely there are some comic
possibilities) and 'over-top' is,
again, a little off to me. but, a few leagues back, its water stopped six fathoms down. Can it be
- I think the units of measurements used
should fit the culture. that sea-level is not truly just the same at every place?
- In the original are a series of
questions often asked before an
answer is given? If not, you might
begin, not with a question but with: Eager student said to his Master: I have noticed that Ocean's ...
“Has this world a curve, oh Master, just as Ninefold Heaven arches over all its lands and seas?”
- I think this confuses (beg pardon)
things, it seems odd that ES would
attempt to provided his own answer
before waiting for Master's response.
Also 'curve', why not an appropriately
Chinese comparision?
“Fool!” his master said, but kindly,
- This doesn't read as authentic at all,
particularly the characterisation of
'kindly'.
“what makes you believe a wall men built is level as an ocean? Some who build, skimp, stopping lower than they promised, and yet others build too high because they pocket money for each stone they lay.
- I think the order of this is wrong,
perhaps. The Master said: Consider, Eager Student, some who build will skimp .... So why do you believe a wall which a man builds would be as level ...
(I think, if possible, skimp should be
replaced with an appropriately Confucian
term)
Perhaps S2 here? Eager Student asked: Has then the world a curve ...
“If all men would do exactly as the Son of Heaven orders in his wisdom, Middle Kingdom would not suffer flood or famine.” But, so saying, Master winked.
- the 'winked' is far too heavy handed,
doesn't fit with the title and reads as
slightly lazy. I think there might be
sufficient irony in 'If all ... famine'
that you don't need it.
“Master,” asked his thoughtful student,
“why is Silver Ocean higher
at some places than at others?
Here it overtops a sea-wall,
but, a few li back, its churning
stopped six bu below. Can it be
that sea-level is not truly
just the same at every place?
“Has this world a slant, oh Master,
just as Ninefold Heaven angles
over all its lands and seas?”
“Fool!” his master said, but sagely,
“What makes you believe a wall men
built is level as an ocean?
Some who build, skimp, stopping lower
than they’re bidden, and yet others
build too high because they pocket
money for each stone they lay.
“If all men would do exactly
as the Son of Heaven orders
in his wisdom, Middle Kingdom
would not suffer flood or famine.”
But, so saying, Master winked.
Many thanks to honorable critics (yes, there is just a hint of Confusian parody there, of which Charlie Chan was prime example). I've tried to both leave the elements @billy and @betty242 enjoyed while tightening it up a bit per @Knot. Use of traditonal units, for example (bu = about 1m usually, li = about 1/3 km), though at the risk of falling into the "italicized" style of travel writing ("We marched with an impi of askaris carrying tontons, finally stopping by a boma as night began to fall"). I should probably not have mentioned pedantry in reply to @billy.
I am so glad no one (thus far) has interpreted the sea-wall, being a Wall, as something to do with contemporary politics!
“Master,” asked his thoughtful student,
- 'his' is redundant, implied by 'Master'.
“why is Silver Ocean higher at some places than at others? Here it overtops a sea-wall,
- maybe 'spills over the...' for overtops.
(If 'here it x' then perhaps the next line
should be ? but, a few li back, there it is churning ?) but, a few li back, its churning stopped six bu below. Can it be that sea-level is not truly just the same at every place?
“Has this world a slant, oh Master,
- 'Is the world askew, oh Master' ? just as Ninefold Heaven angles
- 'tilts' for 'angles'? over all its lands and seas?”
“Fool!” his master said, but sagely,
- still think this is wrong tonally. It
works well without the heavy-handedness.
“What makes you believe a wall men built is level as an ocean?
- 'true' for 'level'? Some who build, skimp, stopping lower than they’re bidden, and yet others build too high because they pocket money for each stone they lay.
- 'every' for 'each'?
“If all men would do exactly as the Son of Heaven orders in his wisdom, Middle Kingdom
- this is a bit cumbersome,
either If all men would do exactly as the Wise Son of Heaven orders
or If all men would do exactly as the Son of Heaven, in his wisdom, orders... would not suffer flood or famine.”
I like the presumably Chinese distance measures in this one, instead of the fathoms and leagues
I don’t know if it was your intention, but there’s a Mexican wall echo because of the times!
“Master,” asked his thoughtful student,
“why is Silver Ocean higher
at some places than at others?
Here it overtops a sea-wall,
but, a few li back, its churning
stopped six bu below. Can it be
that sea-level is not truly
just the same at every place?
“Is our world askew, oh Master,
under Ninefold Heaven, tilting
west, or north, or to the South?”
“Fool!” his master said, but sagely,
“What makes you believe a wall men
built is level as an ocean?
Some who build, skimp, stopping lower
than they’re bidden, and yet others
build too high because they pocket
money for each stone they lay.
“If all men would do exactly
as the Son of Heaven orders
in his wisdom, Middle Kingdom
would not suffer flood or famine.”
But, so saying, Master winked.
(12-20-2018, 08:39 PM)Busker Wrote: I like the presumably Chinese distance measures in this one, instead of the fathoms and leagues
I don’t know if it was your intention, but there’s a Mexican wall echo because of the times!
Well, I guess that interpretation had to come.
@Knot - Thanks for directing attention to S2, which was indeed problematic. Your other suggestions were interesting, but laziness prevented their being worked into the semi-Hiawatha meter. I do see a problem with "pocket" which, while not so idiomatic as the wonderfully evocative Britishism "trouser" as a verb for taking ill-gotten money, may not work for traditional Chinese dress. Where did they keep their strings of cash, anyway?
(12-21-2018, 12:33 AM)dukealien Wrote: Where did they keep their strings of cash, anyway?
No idea where they kept their cash, but I think you definitely
need to rework the 'pocket money'.
Playing with the history, the Zhou would have used either
bronze shell or bronze spade (bu) coins.
so maybe the answer (and no attempt is made at meter here)
is to go for something like
Some who build, skimp, stopping lower than they’re bidden, and yet others because they receive a bu/shell for each stone laid will always build too high
Non-practicing atheist
