Reassure the Vision

[danny_]

This discussion board is a good place that I've overlooked ever since I joined in 2014. I've had some concerns all my life of writing, about poetry and the critiquing of it. I think I'll share them now. If this comes across as a mild rant, I apologize, I just need an outlet and I am open to your perspective and thoughts on the subject.

You've probably heard, artists never really finish a piece of work, they just decide when it's good enough. True, criticism helps you get closer to good-enough, but I believe sometimes critics miss what's more important. That is, in this case regarding poetry, getting the point of the poem and being sensitive enough to let it touch them. I know that writing is a difficult art form because we don't have background music or any art to support the work - the words are everything, and they have to be carefully chosen, along with punctuation. At the same time, the human mind has the ability to fill in the blanks and overlook minor errors, and imperfect form. But a poem can forever go through the washing-machine of criticism all the while nobody is really touched by a word of it.

I've seen this in so many different art mediums. All this left-brained crit that never ends, and different perspectives that continually contradict each other. Finally I say it's ridiculous - the piece is finished, and close enough to what I want it to be - so you can either appreciate it (and forgive its errors) or go dissect someone else's work. Most humans on this planet are not critics. I would rather appeal to them, because at least they are absorbing the meaning, feeling the work, and not looking for everything that's wrong with its presentation.

Bare with me. My whole issue is this. When do we stop picking things apart and just understand what was intended to be expressed? That goes for every art form. Surely there is a line somewhere, because a poem can never actually represent the true vision and emotion of the author. And you must admit that a lot of critics get stuck on a heartless dissection. I want to be in the company of people, not insensitive surgeons, especially regarding this art form that is so closely related to the heart.

I don't even know where to post my work sometimes. I know that this forum is designed as a tool to improve, and I love this place. But as with all art, there must be a line drawn somewhere. 

So, at the very least, my goal when giving crit is to express exactly what I feel the poem conveys and evokes in terms of potential, first of all. Then I would proceed with how the words may more clearly assist such expression. And I sure would appreciate it if more criticism did not skip this vital aspect.

I'm not against form.

I haven't read a great amount of EE Cummings, but I've always liked this bit from one of his poems.

since feeling is first
who pays any attention
to the syntax of things
will never wholly kiss you;

[ellajam]

I love thinking about art and discussing what works for me and what doesn't as opposed to what works for you and what doesn't. Those discussions are often a revelation for me and have helped develop my own responses to art, pushed me further and made me dig deeper. This applies to my own art and to the art around me.

One of the interesting things, for me, about writing but not publishing poetry is that it is a form that indeed is open-ended. What I think is good enough to stop messing with today may have something I'd like to tweak tomorrow. It's more difficult to do that with more concrete art.

As far as I know this has never been a site for just presenting a finished piece for admiration. I have occasionally seen pieces that seemed too perfect for anyone to have the heart to mess with them but posting them on this site, where readers express their responses in detail, leaves every poem open to suggestions.

Analyzing poems does not preclude feeling them. Different critics tend to discuss different aspects. There is sometimes the rush to comment Wow, I'm knocked out! or That tense confusion is just too much to take! but ideally we all would always take the time to fully experience the poem in all ways before commenting. Personally, my world is not ideal, just good enough, , that's one of the reasons it's so nice to have multiple responses on each thread.

[vagabond]

When do we stop picking things apart and just understand what was intended to be expressed?

the problem is understanding what was intended to be expressed. it´s not just a question of empathy.
picking things apart might help both reader and writer there.

[danny_]

I love thinking about art and discussing what works for me and what doesn't as opposed to what works for you and what doesn't. 

That's a good point, if I understand correctly. You want to understand yourself, your own taste, the artist that you are? But I also want others to connect with my work as much as possible. I would never want to be hard to understand. Although I don't want to be dull and obvious (I can be too straight-forward sometimes) I would like the window open wide as to the clarity and meaning - but I want the view to be worth looking at.

One of the interesting things, for me, about writing but not publishing poetry is that it is a form that indeed is open-ended. What I think is good enough to stop messing with today may have something I'd like to tweak tomorrow.

That's so true. I've been molding some poems for years. As I learn more I want to refine my work. I have improved some greatly in letting them sit for years and then returning. It's a way of creating space and becoming the observer rather than writer. Yet I still have two feelings at once: they are done, and they need to be completely rewritten from a fresh start. 

As far as I know this has never been a site for just presenting a finished piece for admiration.

No, and that's not what it should be of course. We need this workshop atmosphere.

Analyzing poems does not preclude feeling them. Different critics tend to discuss different aspects. There is sometimes the rush to comment Wow, I'm knocked out!

But still... we need reassurement as writers that what we've put down even barely hints at the original vision. (At least I do.) That's why I would like to see a reflection of the experience - even the perceived intended experience - from critiques as an important start. I can't think of any other motivation than being close to reaching my readers. After that confidence I don't mind a thorough analyzing.

Writing is powerful. I just think it gets picked at a little dryly sometimes. We know that enthusiastic feedback from family and friends can be biased. But a reply from a critic can feel dry. And that kind of kills the motivation. 

It's still a priceless tool, this place.

Well, I think I've got it all out now. Writing is something I both love and feel frustrated about. 

BTW: thanks for your reply.

[cloud]

Danny, you may have good intentions when attempting to preserve the authenticity of expression
Look at it this way:

Some poems are gold, some poems are basic lead.
There is value in cherishing the lead, but who is to deny the gap in preciousness between the two?
And who is to say polishing the lead won't make it more shinier and increase its value overall?

Some poems are piercing and fluid
Some poems are just horrid and boring
Like, if someone writes down a cliché and revolves their whole poem around said cliché, I'm going to call them out on it.
That doesn't mean their emotions aren't valid, not at all!

[danny_]

Totally agree Cloud, that was well said.

As far as writing, I'd estimate my strengths are in letters and prose. Poetry, I'm learning, much thanks to this forum (and reading more poems these days). The final product is so refined. I'm sure I'll often have to start my poems as prose, full lines of expression, so I'm free to speak. With what I've learned here I can carve them down, whittle them into what is actually poetry. Even then, I'll put them on the workshop table for perspective.

Just trying to understand it all. Thanks.

[cloud]

Just trying to understand it all. Thanks.

As is every single poet that has ever taken up the pen.