Intention and Critique

[ellajam]

I think my example regarding my poem about grapes explains perfectly well why intent is relevant when critique a poem.  There is nothing wrong with critiquing line break, meter, punctuation, etc but if you knew the authors intent you could better help them write the words that convey the meaning.

Any examples anyone posts from a published poem aren't relevant in the sense that the author is no longer editing the poem, and isn't asking for our critique.

I thought your grape/orange example explained perfectly well why intent is irrelevant.

If you see an orange in my grape, maybe even enjoy or cherish that orange, who am I to complain? Sometimes during workshopping I have even decided my grape is a bit more orange-hued than purple and changed the poem to allow for that. I understand that figuring out intent can strengthen the helpfulness of critique but so can expressing what the critic, mistakenly or not, sees as the poet's intent.

I love the view from the fence.

[QDeathstar]

Because I want to write a poem about a grape, not an orange. The critique is for the poet, not the person giving the critique. It doesn't affect the poems merits as a poem about oranges, but if the author wants to write a poem about grapes, they should get advice on writing a grape poem, not an orange one.

[shemthepenman]

Because I want to write a poem about a grape, not an orange. The critique is for the poet, not the person giving the critique. It doesn't affect the poems merits as a poem about oranges, but if the author wants to write a poem about grapes, they should get advice on writing a grape poem, not an orange one.

but, surely, what ellla is saying is that a critique based on such a fundamental misapprehension of authorial intent would lead to positive results in editing, anyway.

[ellajam]

Because I want to write a poem about a grape, not an orange. The critique is for the poet, not the person giving the critique. It doesn't affect the poems merits as a poem about oranges, but if the author wants to write a poem about grapes, they should get advice on writing a grape poem, not an orange one.

but, surely, what ellla is saying is that a critique based on such a fundamental misapprehension of authorial intent would lead to positive results in editing, anyway.

I've always been hesitant to explain my intent even when an offer of expert help is dangled in front of me if I'd just explain what the heck I was trying to say. Somehow, figuring out what is misleading readers and making the decision on whether or not to change something, and if so, how to do it within the integrity of the poem is fun for me.

[QDeathstar]

Because I want to write a poem about a grape, not an orange. The critique is for the poet, not the person giving the critique. It doesn't affect the poems merits as a poem about oranges, but if the author wants to write a poem about grapes, they should get advice on writing a grape poem, not an orange one.

but, surely, what ellla is saying is that a critique based on such a fundamental misapprehension of authorial intent would lead to positive results in editing, anyway.

perhaps.

[ellajam]

Because I want to write a poem about a grape, not an orange. The critique is for the poet, not the person giving the critique. It doesn't affect the poems merits as a poem about oranges, but if the author wants to write a poem about grapes, they should get advice on writing a grape poem, not an orange one.

but, surely, what ellla is saying is that a critique based on such a fundamental misapprehension of authorial intent would lead to positive results in editing, anyway.

perhaps.

It's bizarre when someone comes at my poem from such a different place than where I was aiming, but it can be like turning the gem and trying to polish every facet. It's great when it's clear that a reader/critic really gets it, exactly, but in my case that doesn't happen all that often. Still, each crit, with very few exceptions, is useful.

[rowens]

That's how you write, with nothing but intention. The reader reads with intention. There are only two intentions, the writer's and the reader's. For every reader there's another writer. That's rich. That's how written things get rich, each reader enchants the written and multiples the writer. You don't make the writer's head bigger, or his so-called ego, you make his book wider, bigger.

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And to make it clear: The writer doesn't have to change a word, or even be alive, for that to happen.