the black economy

[billy]

we've all dealt with that shady person who knows someone who can do the job on the side. the one who'll do a cash in hand job at the drop of the hat.

those who work without paying tax...i'm not on about the black actor who earned 40 mill and didn't pay tax. just people in general:
the discussion is; are they beneficial to a country. are any of them beneficial. what kind of black market jobs would you turn a blind eye too and why. same with those you think are wrong and should be stopped.

some latitude will be allowed because it's a broad question but don't go too far astray .

[Touchstone]

some latitude will be allowed because it's a broad question but don't go too far astray .

No talk about slavery then?



Seriously...of course it's good, it wouldn't exist otherwise. Black (and grey) markets spring up naturally wherever there are unacceptable constraints preventing people from trading freely; whether they be monopolies, government regulations, or whatever.

If I'm happy to give someone what they're asking, and they're happy to relinquish possession of whatever it is that they have which I want, it's nobodies business but ours. And if we can't do it "legitimately" then we will do it "illegitimately".

[srijantje]

i agree,it leaves the question how governments are going to pay for rubbish collection,education,health etc.if nobody's gonna pay taxes.

[kath3]

we've all dealt with that shady person who knows someone who can do the job on the side. the one who'll do a cash in hand job at the drop of the hat.

those who work without paying tax... are they beneficial to a country. are any of them beneficial.

An interesting subject billy, though I'm not so sure I agree with your choice of adjective to describe these types of people ... you got the bee in my bonnet buzzing. In conjunction with my part-time job I've worked most of my adult life working under the table to help subsidize my income, doing house cleaning, yard work, child/animal care, odd painting jobs, just about any type of honest hard work. A choice that is out of neccessity as our area suffers from high unemployment and I'm not one to sit on my ass waiting for gov't hand outs.
As VF pointed out most of these types of people are of a limited income to start with. Being available at the drop of the hat is probably due to the fact that they don't have a full time job and that bit of cash may very well mean the difference between buying a loaf of white bread or going the little extra for whole grain. With Christmas around the corner ... just maybe that new tricycle is possible.
There are plenty of down to earth folks who are as honest as the day is long working for that quick cash job. When hiring someone it's always good to trust your instincts of someones character as there's plenty of shady, slack-ass workers within ligitimate companies who's only concern is to get the job done and get home, while most folks that I know of working under the table will give their best in hopes of establishing future odd jobs. The names of harding working honest people get passed around quickly.
As to whether these people are benefitcial to the ecomomy, I'd say yes.
Most cash jobs are made by local folks spending locally. They also provide services to other low income folks such as the aged widow who needs her windows washed and can afford $10.00 an hour as opposed to the ligitimate company charging $20.00 an hour.
There are shady people who pay taxes who are ripping off folks and government daily.
Something else to think about is that most folks who are earning their living by being paid under the table have to pay their own medical/dental, they haven't the priviledge or luxury of company benefits or pensions to rely on. I admire folks who have the incentive to generate an income rather than relying on social assistance.
Signed ... The Unshady Lady

i agree,it leaves the question how governments are going to pay for rubbish collection,education,health etc.if nobody's gonna pay taxes.

I don't see that day coming anytime soon. People are nickled and dimed to death by taxes. It's certainly not the hard working blue collar folks getting the huge tax breaks either. If the wealthy were made to pay their fair share of taxes that would more than make up for the poorer class earning a few dollars under the table tax free, that and stopping
unneccessary/wasteful govenment spending of our tax dollars would eliminate any worry of the little bit the govn't losses out on with small cash jobs.

[billy]

some latitude will be allowed because it's a broad question but don't go too far astray .

No talk about slavery then?



Seriously...of course it's good, it wouldn't exist otherwise. Black (and grey) markets spring up naturally wherever there are unacceptable constraints preventing people from trading freely; whether they be monopolies, government regulations, or whatever.

If I'm happy to give someone what they're asking, and they're happy to relinquish possession of whatever it is that they have which I want, it's nobodies business but ours. And if we can't do it "legitimately" then we will do it "illegitimately".

yes by all means slavery is part of the black market trade.

i'm of a similar mind to you though from experience what i usually buy ends up a crock of shit lol. on the slavery side. the back market re people used as slaves in the sex trade, the fashion industry etc. different in that the sex slave trade is a physical thing that for me constitutes sexual rape and all the crimes that go with it. it should be stopped. and those found guilty given life sentences or death. the sweat shops and some other kinds of employment within the black market are a harder thing to define or deal with. ideally the workers should get a fair wage and all the benefits of other workers.

migrant workers and should be given fair wages and benefits though if that happened the cost of food and other commodities would rise ( i could live with that) i know the issue on this one is broader and the argument is that migrant workers take the jobs of locals. thing is the locals won't work for a pittance and if the farmers paid what they should they'd be a chance they'd go out of business.

for me the black market workers who need to be shut down are the one who have no trade yet pretend to in order to prey on the poor and old etc. the roofer who doesn't have a pair of ladders etc. i hate them with a vengeance. jmo

[billy]

we've all dealt with that shady person who knows someone who can do the job on the side. the one who'll do a cash in hand job at the drop of the hat.

those who work without paying tax... are they beneficial to a country. are any of them beneficial.

An interesting subject billy, though I'm not so sure I agree with your choice of adjective to describe these types of people ... you got the bee in my bonnet buzzing. In conjunction with my part-time job I've worked most of my adult life working under the table to help subsidize my income, doing house cleaning, yard work, child/animal care, odd painting jobs, just about any type of honest hard work. A choice that is out of neccessity as our area suffers from high unemployment and I'm not one to sit on my ass waiting for gov't hand outs.
As VF pointed out most of these types of people are of a limited income to start with. Being available at the drop of the hat is probably due to the fact that they don't have a full time job and that bit of cash may very well mean the difference between buying a loaf of white bread or going the little extra for whole grain. With Christmas around the corner ... just maybe that new tricycle is possible.
There are plenty of down to earth folks who are as honest as the day is long working for that quick cash job. When hiring someone it's always good to trust your instincts of someones character as there's plenty of shady, slack-ass workers within ligitimate companies who's only concern is to get the job done and get home, while most folks that I know of working under the table will give their best in hopes of establishing future odd jobs. The names of harding working honest people get passed around quickly.
As to whether these people are benefitcial to the ecomomy, I'd say yes.
Most cash jobs are made by local folks spending locally. They also provide services to other low income folks such as the aged widow who needs her windows washed and can afford $10.00 an hour as opposed to the ligitimate company charging $20.00 an hour.
There are shady people who pay taxes who are ripping off folks and government daily.
Something else to think about is that most folks who are earning their living by being paid under the table have to pay their own medical/dental, they haven't the priviledge or luxury of company benefits or pensions to rely on. I admire folks who have the incentive to generate an income rather than relying on social assistance.
Signed ... The Unshady Lady

i agree,it leaves the question how governments are going to pay for rubbish collection,education,health etc.if nobody's gonna pay taxes.

I don't see that day coming anytime soon. People are nickled and dimed to death by taxes. It's certainly not the hard working blue collar folks getting the huge tax breaks either. If the wealthy were made to pay their fair share of taxes that would more than make up for the poorer class earning a few dollars under the table tax free, that and stopping
unneccessary/wasteful govenment spending of our tax dollars would eliminate any worry of the little bit the govn't losses out on with small cash jobs.

i used to be a cieling fixer and dry wall installer. and i had lots of guys working for me on the side. i still paid them the same rate as the cards in guys as they did the same work. being self employed they paid thir own tax. (they were good workers and no one got gyped) as for cleaners and those who take a part time job on the side to help with the bills? i'm all for them i think many of them are the backbone of the workforce.

what about the people who sell snide goods as the real deal. here in the philippines we have markets selling everything and anything to the public. at a cheap price though no where near as good, quality wise. whatever comes out on film i can get a cd of the day after. same with apps. (i don't class them as pirates by the way. and yes i've bought a snide cd or shoe but for me the selling of it is and should be illegal.

i admire the guy who goes out cleaning windows to earn a wage without declaring it. i admire the washer woman, the cleaner, the part timer etc.

i just hate the guys who go round ripping people off without any recourse. of course if i buy a cd i'm not only fuelling the thing i don't like i know i have no recourse lol. but the guy who come s to plumb a boiler in, who hasn't a clue and doesn't pay his tax even if he does charge as much as the next plumber needs to have a warm knife shoved up his bottom.

what i'm trying to say is; the black economy is a great thing if certain parts of it were removed or stopped.

as TS mentioned, slave trade (labour and sex) the cowboys who can't give any kind of guarantee etc.

[mrmod]

I suppose it's acceptable in small numbers.


Plus "black market" - any dealing of drugs will be black market and drugs are a very lucrative business (for the ones high up). So the effect is not that great.

[billy]

the drug thing, it one of the reasons most or many people say legalising it would be a good thing. it would generate taxes etc. i would mind that for the soft drugs but heroine dealers should be shot on site.

[billy]

i'm not saying don't allow drugs on the black economy. i'm saying if they were legalised they would be less of a prob and a taxable commodity.

i have no probs with weed being sold persay. i do struggle to accept the harm caused by the drug cartels as an acceptable pice of collateral damage.

smuggling dope, dealing in it, and working for the cartels can be an extremely deadly or dangerous occupation. canada doesn't grow and sell all the weed in the world.

i've never heard of a maid being assassinated for not doing their job

mostly the drug trade is connected to the slave trade which is something i personally abhor.

[addy]

The black market is certainly good to an extent, providing a platform for the exchange of goods and commodities for people who may not have access to such things above board. Of course, that underground economy also becomes a platform for delivering goods and services that are in and of themselves illegal (and not just because you're not paying tax for it): slavery, weapons, sub-standard and dangerous "products". It all depends on the scope of what we're discussing here. But yeah, for me there's no way to say in broadstrokes if its good or bad.