Me Animal Soul

[Exit]

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Me Animal Soul

We’re born from a fold,
of a million folds—
pleats of εἶδος and υλη.
Born to bones, and
expressions of bones,
into a sorrow escaped from a joy.


Me Animal Soul

We’re born from a fold,
of infinite folds—
pleats of εiδος and υλη.
Born to bones, and
expressions of bones,
into a sorrow escaped from a joy.

[dukealien]

Me Animal Soul

We’re born from a fold,  this first use of  "fold" suggests a sheep fold, i.e. an (open) enclosure holding domestic animals... fitting mid-word of the title
of infinite folds— and here the alternate meaning is suggested, then confirmed by "pleats" in the following line; good use of em-dash
pleats of ειδoς and υλη.  seeking a good English translation, "matter" will do for the one (though "stuff" might also work) but, rather than "species" or "kind" (which is too multi-faceted in English) I like "instance" for the other
Born to bones, and  good alliteration this line
expressions of bones, many nice directions this could go - DNA as bones of a kind, body-language of our foundational stick-figures
into a sorrow escaped from a joy. a nice expression, but does it follow from the rest of the poem?

Hate to quibble and carp, but intensive was requested.  So...

Number switch between title and body of the work:  "Me" could be taken as dialect for "my," but even so the work itself discusses only generalities of the human condition.  The connection isn't far-fetched ("here's what I'm like, as are we all") but perhaps it could be suggested in the title.  Or the individual speaker/writer confirmed or acknowledged by use of the singular somewhere below.

fold:  after the quite nice initial use, the second certainly creates an image.  Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work:  an origami figure is made of folds, yes, but the people you're describing are made up of random or purposeful bifurcations - trees, bushes of decisions, rather than two- or three-dimensional sheet-figures.  It's not bad, just not perfect; I have no suggestion for improvement. 

Had to look up the Greek - my zombie languages end at Latin.  No points off for that, it's the language of philosophy.  If you decide to use English there, I advocate for "instance" which would also tie back to the individual of "me" in your title.

And the last line.  The rest of the work does not prepare us for this (except, perhaps, with "expression").  Furthermore, it's an unsupported assertion that, being without foundation elsewhere, could go either way (why life=sorrow, pre-life=joy?  why not pre-life=insensate, life=sensational?)  What I'm saying is, the progression of the rest of the poem doesn't seem to lead here.  Now, there's nothing wrong with introducing a new thought, as in the final couplet of a sonnet, but there should be some reason for it to be in the same poem.

Having said that, it's well done and nicely executed; it just seems as though the last line might have come about because you needed a last line or, if that was in mind all along, the preceding material doesn't lead up to it.

[Exit]

Me Animal Soul

We’re born from a fold,  this first use of  "fold" suggests a sheep fold, i.e. an (open) enclosure holding domestic animals... fitting mid-word of the title
of infinite folds— and here the alternate meaning is suggested, then confirmed by "pleats" in the following line; good use of em-dash
pleats of ειδoς and υλη.  seeking a good English translation, "matter" will do for the one (though "stuff" might also work) but, rather than "species" or "kind" (which is too multi-faceted in English) I like "instance" for the other
Born to bones, and  good alliteration this line
expressions of bones, many nice directions this could go - DNA as bones of a kind, body-language of our foundational stick-figures
into a sorrow escaped from a joy. a nice expression, but does it follow from the rest of the poem?

Hate to quibble and carp, but intensive was requested.  So...

Number switch between title and body of the work:  "Me" could be taken as dialect for "my," but even so the work itself discusses only generalities of the human condition.  The connection isn't far-fetched ("here's what I'm like, as are we all") but perhaps it could be suggested in the title.  Or the individual speaker/writer confirmed or acknowledged by use of the singular somewhere below.

fold:  after the quite nice initial use, the second certainly creates an image.  Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work:  an origami figure is made of folds, yes, but the people you're describing are made up of random or purposeful bifurcations - trees, bushes of decisions, rather than two- or three-dimensional sheet-figures.  It's not bad, just not perfect; I have no suggestion for improvement. 

Had to look up the Greek - my zombie languages end at Latin.  No points off for that, it's the language of philosophy.  If you decide to use English there, I advocate for "instance" which would also tie back to the individual of "me" in your title.

And the last line.  The rest of the work does not prepare us for this (except, perhaps, with "expression").  Furthermore, it's an unsupported assertion that, being without foundation elsewhere, could go either way (why life=sorrow, pre-life=joy?  why not pre-life=insensate, life=sensational?)  What I'm saying is, the progression of the rest of the poem doesn't seem to lead here.  Now, there's nothing wrong with introducing a new thought, as in the final couplet of a sonnet, but there should be some reason for it to be in the same poem.

Having said that, it's well done and nicely executed; it just seems as though the last line might have come about because you needed a last line or, if that was in mind all along, the preceding material doesn't lead up to it.

Thank you. This is great. I will respond more thoroughly to your critique as soon as I have more time—it demands more attention than I am able to give it right now. But just wanted to acknowledge the in-depth analysis and time you have spent on this critique. I appreciate it. more anon.

[Exit]

Me Animal Soul

We’re born from a fold,  this first use of  "fold" suggests a sheep fold, i.e. an (open) enclosure holding domestic animals... fitting mid-word of the title
of infinite folds— and here the alternate meaning is suggested, then confirmed by "pleats" in the following line; good use of em-dash
pleats of ειδoς and υλη.  seeking a good English translation, "matter" will do for the one (though "stuff" might also work) but, rather than "species" or "kind" (which is too multi-faceted in English) I like "instance" for the other
Born to bones, and  good alliteration this line
expressions of bones, many nice directions this could go - DNA as bones of a kind, body-language of our foundational stick-figures
into a sorrow escaped from a joy. a nice expression, but does it follow from the rest of the poem?

Hate to quibble and carp, but intensive was requested.  So...

Number switch between title and body of the work:  "Me" could be taken as dialect for "my," but even so the work itself discusses only generalities of the human condition.  The connection isn't far-fetched ("here's what I'm like, as are we all") but perhaps it could be suggested in the title.  Or the individual speaker/writer confirmed or acknowledged by use of the singular somewhere below.

fold:  after the quite nice initial use, the second certainly creates an image.  Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work:  an origami figure is made of folds, yes, but the people you're describing are made up of random or purposeful bifurcations - trees, bushes of decisions, rather than two- or three-dimensional sheet-figures.  It's not bad, just not perfect; I have no suggestion for improvement. 

Had to look up the Greek - my zombie languages end at Latin.  No points off for that, it's the language of philosophy.  If you decide to use English there, I advocate for "instance" which would also tie back to the individual of "me" in your title.

And the last line.  The rest of the work does not prepare us for this (except, perhaps, with "expression").  Furthermore, it's an unsupported assertion that, being without foundation elsewhere, could go either way (why life=sorrow, pre-life=joy?  why not pre-life=insensate, life=sensational?)  What I'm saying is, the progression of the rest of the poem doesn't seem to lead here.  Now, there's nothing wrong with introducing a new thought, as in the final couplet of a sonnet, but there should be some reason for it to be in the same poem.

Having said that, it's well done and nicely executed; it just seems as though the last line might have come about because you needed a last line or, if that was in mind all along, the preceding material doesn't lead up to it.

Hello, thank you again for the critique. I've taken it all on board. 
Okay, so firstly you highlighted a typo on my part—whether you intended to or not— but thanks for that. It should be εἶδος and not ειδoς (the anglo approximation being eidos, my error). But still, I'm thinking about translating the Greek and just having English. I had assumed these were universally well-known greek words and a well-known dichotomy. Which is a shame because, god damn doesn't greek look pretty. Yet it also looks pretty pretentious if it's not generally understood, so.

Um, what else? Oh yes, the last line. Well, I suppose as I'm playing with the ambiguity of certain words here (throughout the poem) I can't complain about interpretations I hadn't accounted for. There are just far too many variables. And I don't want to take away that ambiguity by giving a definitive explanation of the poem—that would ruin it—but I will say that maybe one way to interpret this is from a less family-friendly place when contemplating the joyful folds you escape from

Thank you.

[Valerie Please]

Well, to me, the fold in this poem screams “vagina.” I’m surprised that interpretation hasn’t come up yet, especially because of the way it links the first line to the last, because the sorrow escaped from a joy seems like a clear reference to sex. I take it from your last comment that I am not incorrect and then it’s just a question of how far the innuendo goes. But more on this in a moment. I really like this last line: it has a classic elegance to it, like I’m not reading a contemporary poem. (This effect is reinforced by the use of “me” in the title, it sounds like dialect to me as well.) The result of the momentarily pleasure of sex leads to a complex series or cellular folds and the child is born to a more difficult life beyond the womb. It’s beautifully stated. The poem kind of becomes a series of infinite folds in and of itself.

Speaking of sexual references, let’s not forget the potential double entendre of bone and the animal portion of the title.

The only thing that gives me pause is the use of Greek. It does indeed risk inaccessibility or pretension. Clearly you are going for a certain tone here and it’s not informal or contemporary. So you might as well not apologize for the Greek. I’ll admit though that for me personally, it’s indecipherable...so there’s a question there of what you want to do and who you want along with you for the ride. As it is, you’re looking at a pretty select group that will be a able to read it. You could consider splitting the difference and using the romanized transliteration so we could better riddle out the meaning since most people with a secondary education know enough Greek roots to get by if it’s written in Latin letters.

Again, I think the poem is extremely well executed and a beautiful read. Thank you for posting.

Me Animal Soul

We’re born from a fold,
of infinite folds—
pleats of ειδoς and υλη.
Born to bones, and
expressions of bones,
into a sorrow escaped from a joy.

[Exit]

Well, to me, the fold in this poem screams “vagina.” I’m surprised that interpretation hasn’t come up yet, especially because of the way it links the first line to the last, because the sorrow escaped from a joy seems like a clear reference to sex. I take it from your last comment that I am not incorrect and then it’s just a question of how far the innuendo goes. But more on this in a moment. I really like this last line: it has a classic elegance to it, like I’m not reading a contemporary poem. (This effect is reinforced by the use of “me” in the title, it sounds like dialect to me as well.) The result of the momentarily pleasure of sex leads to a complex series or cellular folds and the child is born to a more difficult life beyond the womb. It’s beautifully stated. The poem kind of becomes a series of infinite folds in and of itself.

Speaking of sexual references, let’s not forget the potential double entendre of bone and the animal portion of the title.

The only thing that gives me pause is the use of Greek. It does indeed risk inaccessibility or pretension. Clearly you are going for a certain tone here and it’s not informal or contemporary. So you might as well not apologize for the Greek. I’ll admit though that for me personally, it’s indecipherable...so there’s a question there of what you want to do and who you want along with you for the ride. As it is, you’re looking at a pretty select group that will be a able to read it. You could consider splitting the difference and using the romanized transliteration so we could better riddle out the meaning since most people with a secondary education know enough Greek roots to get by if it’s written in Latin letters.

Again, I think the poem is extremely well executed and a beautiful read. Thank you for posting.

Me Animal Soul

We’re born from a fold,
of infinite folds—
pleats of ειδoς and υλη.
Born to bones, and
expressions of bones,
into a sorrow escaped from a joy.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and write an in-depth review. I think you are correct I have to change the Greek into a Latinized variant.

[busker]

Me Animal Soul

We’re born from a fold,
of infinite folds— .... The first 'fold' is good. Coitus, the folding and unfolding thereof, or any number of interesting interpretations. In the second line, 'infinite' as a substitute for 'very many' teeters on the edge of acceptability. Perhaps it's a bit too cliched.
pleats of ειδoς and υλη. ....the Greek works if the words are specific Platonic concepts (or similar). Otherwise, it's showing off for no reason. A footnote would help here (at least for this forum, if not for published work)
Born to bones, and
expressions of bones, 
into a sorrow escaped from a joy. ... the last line links up well with the first. I'm not sure what 'expressions of bones' are, but it's vague enough for the reader to interpret his own way without being too pompous.

Nice

[Exit]

Me Animal Soul

We’re born from a fold,
of infinite folds— .... The first 'fold' is good. Coitus, the folding and unfolding thereof, or any number of interesting interpretations. In the second line, 'infinite' as a substitute for 'very many' teeters on the edge of acceptability. Perhaps it's a bit too cliched.
pleats of ειδoς and υλη. ....the Greek works if the words are specific Platonic concepts (or similar). Otherwise, it's showing off for no reason. A footnote would help here (at least for this forum, if not for published work)
Born to bones, and
expressions of bones, 
into a sorrow escaped from a joy. ... the last line links up well with the first. I'm not sure what 'expressions of bones' are, but it's vague enough for the reader to interpret his own way without being too pompous.

Nice

Thank you. And yes the greek is referring to the platonic concepts. My misspelling has possibly led to some confusion there. I'm still thinking about changing it.
Also, you are entirely correct! I didn't see it before but "infinite folds" is lazy. Hyperbole without thinking. That's definitely something I will edit. And a good catch. 
"expressions of bones"—yes, this bit is doing a lot of abstract work that may be too esoteric. I try to have at least 3 plates spinning in any poem: sound/style, surface concept and educated concept. And the goal is to make them all knit together so if you don't get all 3 at least 1 or 2 will work. And I think you have highlighted a particular line that sticks out as potentially failing that mandate. 
Although, to justify it a little, yes it still leaves room for interpretation but it does add an existential 3rd term to form and matter and mirrors that dicotomy—existence and essence=bones (the ontological) and expressions (the phenomenological) of concrete forms. 

Thanks again, I'll definitely change the "infinite" thing because that just looks embarrassing now :/

[busker]

Me Animal Soul

We’re born from a fold,
of infinite folds— .... The first 'fold' is good. Coitus, the folding and unfolding thereof, or any number of interesting interpretations. In the second line, 'infinite' as a substitute for 'very many' teeters on the edge of acceptability. Perhaps it's a bit too cliched.
pleats of ειδoς and υλη. ....the Greek works if the words are specific Platonic concepts (or similar). Otherwise, it's showing off for no reason. A footnote would help here (at least for this forum, if not for published work)
Born to bones, and
expressions of bones, 
into a sorrow escaped from a joy. ... the last line links up well with the first. I'm not sure what 'expressions of bones' are, but it's vague enough for the reader to interpret his own way without being too pompous.

Nice

Thank you. And yes the greek is referring to the platonic concepts. My misspelling has possibly led to some confusion there. I'm still thinking about changing it.
Also, you are entirely correct! I didn't see it before but "infinite folds" is lazy. Hyperbole without thinking. That's definitely something I will edit. And a good catch. 
"expressions of bones"—yes, this bit is doing a lot of abstract work that may be too esoteric. I try to have at least 3 plates spinning in any poem: sound/style, surface concept and educated concept. And the goal is to make them all knit together so if you don't get all 3 at least 1 or 2 will work. And I think you have highlighted a particular line that sticks out as potentially failing that mandate. 
Although, to justify it a little, yes it still leaves room for interpretation but it does add an existential 3rd term to form and matter and mirrors that dicotomy—existence and essence=bones (the ontological) and expressions (the phenomenological) of concrete forms. 

Thanks again, I'll definitely change the "infinite" thing because that just looks embarrassing now :/

I don't think you necessarily have to change it. As you say, every poem is in equilibrium with several forces, and in most cases we have to live with slightly imperfect words balancing each other. It's difficult to find the perfect word for every position, because if you do, it's a masterpiece.
I don't think you should alter anything in this poem unless it's the perfect alteration. It's quite good as it is.

[Exit]

Nice

Thank you. And yes the greek is referring to the platonic concepts. My misspelling has possibly led to some confusion there. I'm still thinking about changing it.
Also, you are entirely correct! I didn't see it before but "infinite folds" is lazy. Hyperbole without thinking. That's definitely something I will edit. And a good catch. 
"expressions of bones"—yes, this bit is doing a lot of abstract work that may be too esoteric. I try to have at least 3 plates spinning in any poem: sound/style, surface concept and educated concept. And the goal is to make them all knit together so if you don't get all 3 at least 1 or 2 will work. And I think you have highlighted a particular line that sticks out as potentially failing that mandate. 
Although, to justify it a little, yes it still leaves room for interpretation but it does add an existential 3rd term to form and matter and mirrors that dicotomy—existence and essence=bones (the ontological) and expressions (the phenomenological) of concrete forms. 

Thanks again, I'll definitely change the "infinite" thing because that just looks embarrassing now :/

I don't think you necessarily have to change it. As you say, every poem is in equilibrium with several forces, and in most cases we have to live with slightly imperfect words balancing each other. It's difficult to find the perfect word for every position, because if you do, it's a masterpiece.
I don't think you should alter anything in this poem unless it's the perfect alteration. It's quite good as it is.

Any artist aiming for "quite good" should be "dragged to the sidewalk and beaten till they PISS BLOOD!" I'm changing it and fuck perfection.