This is my temporary fix. I'm gonna continue to work with this new version while at home, but I don't expect this version is much better than the last. It's more to-the-point.
Burial
Rocks dwell under the cold crests sifting grain from the cracks. I thought I could withstand its strength, but I was wrong. I'm frail. I drudge forward yet the mud persists to pull me deeper. Both feet cringed and eyes swollen, coarse hairs gritting bone with skin, struck by water harsh as nails, my form shreds. Joints numb, they crack like ice. My spine crunches and I flail as sheer, thick sheets slide down my lungs, teeth stung. Crushed and gagged, I snap in the rapids. Dropped stones fade and hearts sink. People off-shore watch this tide, awe-struck. Its flux, its ebb, its course... They are ghosts, now. Some time has gone and underneath the ice flows I sway- a muted shifting.
Burial Floods and cold crests Shift grain from Dwelt rocks Its strength sweeps line By line, cracks Dredged deep White specs dance, flares Of sprees rush Like wasps I thought I could Stand its strength As stone I've sunk in, stuck I was wrong — I'm frail I drudge each foot Hands thrash out Splash down Stern mud pulls me Both feet cringe Eyes swell These coarse hairs grit Bone with skin Fringed, caged, Trapped, struck by nails My form shreds Joints numb Crack hard, like ice Break and flail Freeze burns Sheer, thick sheets slide Down my lungs Teeth stung Gagged, crushed, I snap — Dropped stones fade, Hearts sink. The ghosts off-shore Watch this tide Awe-struck Its flux, its ebb, Its course, breeze Draft, whir Some time has gone Ice still washed Cruel flows Deep in those flows I still sway Mute shift
I dont mind the form here, 16 9-syllable blocks dropping, when you get to the end your buried pretty deep under all the other lines, which look heavier since they're divided in 3's and all the words are one syllable each. I think though I'd rather read it as 16 lines though, for the punctuation and flow. Sometimes the two word lines aren't strong enough to get their own line
Floods and cold crests
Shift grain from
Smooth rocks I like this image like sifting in a stream
Its strength sweeps drift
Small cracks dredge
In lines this block really confuses me, I can't figure out subject verb and really want it to be clearer
Flares of rushed sprees, sprees are rushed inherently?
White specs dance
Like wasps
I thought I could
Stand its strength
As stone
I've sunk in, stuck
I was wrong
I'm frail I think a little bit of punctuation should just go all the way
I drudge each foot
Hands thrash out this is getting more engaging for me, I'm feeling more and more like I was too far out at the beach, and I'm about to get pulled out to drown
Splash down
Stern mud grips them
Squish, cringe them the mud squished? Cringe the eyes?
Eyes drip what's dripping?
These coarse hairs grit
Bone with skin
Mewed, caged, I don't get mewed
Fringed, slapped by nails nails don't slap
My form shreds
Joints numb
Crack hard, like ice
Spreads in flames
Chink, flow I don't like ice and fire both in this, does anything spread like ice, or does anything crack like fire?
Sheer, thick sheets slide
Down my lungs
Teeth stung I like the teeth stung,
I curve, I click
This dance stops
Dead rock rock and roll is dead, you were dancing, but I've lost the dreaded feeling I'd had built up, not sure what's happening
The ghosts off-shore
Watch this tide
Awe-struckI like this block,
Its flux, its ebb,
It's course, breeze
Draft, whirI like this one too
Some time has gone
Ice still flows
Swerve, washArctic sea?
Deep in those flows
Plants still swayalgae? Cyanobacteria?
Mute shift I think you should put this line back with its block.
I dont mind the form here, 16 9-syllable blocks dropping, when you get to the end your buried pretty deep under all the other lines, which look heavier since they're divided in 3's and all the words are one syllable each. I think though I'd rather read it as 16 lines though, for the punctuation and flow. Sometimes the two word lines aren't strong enough to get their own line
Its strength sweeps drift
Small cracks dredge
In lines this block really confuses me, I can't figure out subject verb and really want it to be clearer
Flares of rushed sprees, sprees are rushed inherently?
White specs dance
Like wasps
I drudge each foot
Hands thrash out this is getting more engaging for me, I'm feeling more and more like I was too far out at the beach, and I'm about to get pulled out to drown
Splash down
Eyes drip what's dripping?
I don't like ice and fire both in this, does anything spread like ice, or does anything crack like fire?[/b][/size][/align]
I curve, I click
This dance stops
Dead rock rock and roll is dead, you were dancing, but I've lost the dreaded feeling I'd had built up, not sure what's happening
Mute shift I think you should put this line back with its block.
Thank you for all these insights! They were helpful, especially the detail you put about the form of this poem. Also, there were some sections where the single syllables were limiting my ability to convey the ideas I wanted to. I appreciate your critique!
the stanza “I thought I could stand its strength as stone” makes me think of the subject struck by some emotion too dire to process.
unfortunately I do not get which emotion – at least I m not sure if it is the death of a loved person.
the next stanzas to me convey strongly the horrifying experience of being buried alive. maybe that is what results of suppressing emotions (very wild guess).
what I, again, don-t understand is what the “ ghosts off-shore” are.
I think this is an interesting read, though it leaves me a little frustrated for not quite understanding the intended message.
Hi burr,
On a cursory read I took this to be just nonsense.Subsequent readings convinced me I was correct. The other crits have tried politely to see the King's new clothes but I see him bollock naked.
Look, this "thought train" stuff is all very good at convincing some of the people some of the time that there is something inherently worthy in saying it "as it is". That may be a bonus in politicians but not in poets.The quintessential point about poetry is to find another way. It takes some skill, some intuition, some talent and some effort...the latter being inversely proportional to the sum of the formers. Read this out loud and make changes to clarify, dazzle, impress and IMPROVE. If you need it spelling out in a kindly way,use your thoughts as a frame on which to hang out your metaphorical washing...it needs to be cleaned up,rinsed through, to flutter and dance in the fresh wind...that is poetry, this is just dirty linen on the line.
No line by line as every line would require comment which you would find detrimental to whatever you thought you were doing...BUT I am NOT convinced that you thought you were doing anything poetically germane...and there's the pity. If you genuinely wish to "make" a piece worth reading...and I hope and believe you do...then please take this crit in the round. It needs more (correct) punctuation, more (potent) imagery, more (clarifying) metaphor, more (consistent) rhythm, more (thoughtful) aliteration, more (tuneful)assonance, more (vectored) direction, more....more....POETRY.
Best,
tectak
(05-16-2017, 11:54 PM)tectak Wrote: Hi burr,
On a cursory read I took this to be just nonsense.Subsequent readings convinced me I was correct. The other crits have tried politely to see the King's new clothes but I see him bollock naked.
Look, this "thought train" stuff is all very good at convincing some of the people some of the time that there is something inherently worthy in saying it "as it is". That may be a bonus in politicians but not in poets.The quintessential point about poetry is to find another way. It takes some skill, some intuition, some talent and some effort...the latter being inversely proportional to the sum of the formers. Read this out loud and make changes to clarify, dazzle, impress and IMPROVE. If you need it spelling out in a kindly way,use your thoughts as a frame on which to hang out your metaphorical washing...it needs to be cleaned up,rinsed through, to flutter and dance in the fresh wind...that is poetry, this is just dirty linen on the line.
No line by line as every line would require comment which you would find detrimental to whatever you thought you were doing...BUT I am NOT convinced that you thought you were doing anything poetically germane...and there's the pity. If you genuinely wish to "make" a piece worth reading...and I hope and believe you do...then please take this crit in the round. It needs more (correct) punctuation, more (potent) imagery, more (clarifying) metaphor, more (consistent) rhythm, more (thoughtful) aliteration, more (tuneful)assonance, more (vectored) direction, more....more....POETRY.
Best,
tectak
Okay, every time I post it seems that I'm obsessed with metaphors. People don't understand what the hell I'm talking about. Here's what I get:
"It needs more (correct) punctuation, more (potent) imagery, more (clarifying) metaphor, more (consistent) rhythm, more (thoughtful) aliteration, more (tuneful)assonance, more (vectored) direction, more....more....POETRY."
I constantly think about all of the quoted above, BUT:
"some effort...the latter being inversely proportional to the sum of the formers."
I am lazy. I know that when I write, I settle. Here, I was so focused on using one-syllable words while keeping its form consistent. Those are the two major things I focused on. Everything else was irrelevant to me.
"The other crits have tried politely to see the King's new clothes but I see him bullock naked."
Yes, I've felt that people are trying very hard to be kind because I write about "sensitive subjects" (who doesn't?).
As far as nonsense, I don't understand why you think it is nonsense. As a poet, even while reading a bad poem, shouldn't you have enough of an understanding of poetry to put the pieces together and figure out there is something in the body of it?
I think it is an obvious effort in describing personal strife. Inflated with nonsensical metaphors, yes... But it isn't complete nonsense.
'dwelt' means absolutely nothing to me in this context.
Its strength sweeps line
By line, cracks
Dredged deep
'Floods and cold crests' plural, control the verb, so this should read 'their strength'
White specs dance, flares
Of sprees rush
Like wasps
'specs' short for spectacles, eye-glasses. I think you meant 'specks' WTF is a 'flare of sprees'?
I thought I could
Stand its strength
As stone
withstand their
I've sunk in, stuck
I was wrong —
I'm frail
with punctation, either use it or don't use it, but don't fart around with inconsistency
I drudge each foot
Hands thrash out
Splash down
I don't like the use of the noun 'drudge' as a verb. Your 'hands splash down' ?- I have trouble picturing this action
Stern mud pulls me
Both feet cringe
Eyes swell
My eyes cringe now.
These coarse hairs grit
Bone with skin
Fringed, caged,
Trapped, struck by nails
My form shreds
Joints numb
Crack hard, like ice
Break and flail
Freeze burns
Sheer, thick sheets slide
Down my lungs
Teeth stung
Gagged, crushed, I snap —
Dropped stones fade,
Hearts sink.
The ghosts off-shore
Watch this tide
Awe-struck
Its flux, its ebb,
Its course, breeze
Draft, whir
Some time has gone
Ice still washed
Cruel flows
Deep in those flows
I still sway
Mute shift
Hi - I haven't read the others crits, so excuse me if I repeat what's already been said.
Firstly, I personally hate and abhor centre-aligned poems.
Secondly, if you are going to use this format, FFS take away the caps at the start of each line. They make your poem feel like a misfiring car engine, jerky, trying to stall.
Thirdly - your poem makes no sense to me. If that was intended, you have achieved your aim.
nothing to add to Jm's feedback except to say it's what [almost] i'd have written.
metaphor is one of the stock poetic devices we should all endevour to use but if they're too far away to workout as most here are; they fail. it's easy for you to understand them, you wrote them, would you understand similar one's if someone else wrote them?
(05-16-2017, 11:54 PM)tectak Wrote: Hi burr,
On a cursory read I took this to be just nonsense.Subsequent readings convinced me I was correct. The other crits have tried politely to see the King's new clothes but I see him bollock naked.
Look, this "thought train" stuff is all very good at convincing some of the people some of the time that there is something inherently worthy in saying it "as it is". That may be a bonus in politicians but not in poets.The quintessential point about poetry is to find another way. It takes some skill, some intuition, some talent and some effort...the latter being inversely proportional to the sum of the formers. Read this out loud and make changes to clarify, dazzle, impress and IMPROVE. If you need it spelling out in a kindly way,use your thoughts as a frame on which to hang out your metaphorical washing...it needs to be cleaned up,rinsed through, to flutter and dance in the fresh wind...that is poetry, this is just dirty linen on the line.
No line by line as every line would require comment which you would find detrimental to whatever you thought you were doing...BUT I am NOT convinced that you thought you were doing anything poetically germane...and there's the pity. If you genuinely wish to "make" a piece worth reading...and I hope and believe you do...then please take this crit in the round. It needs more (correct) punctuation, more (potent) imagery, more (clarifying) metaphor, more (consistent) rhythm, more (thoughtful) aliteration, more (tuneful)assonance, more (vectored) direction, more....more....POETRY.
Best,
tectak
Okay, every time I post it seems that I'm obsessed with metaphors. People don't understand what the hell I'm talking about. Here's what I get:
"It needs more (correct) punctuation, more (potent) imagery, more (clarifying) metaphor, more (consistent) rhythm, more (thoughtful) aliteration, more (tuneful)assonance, more (vectored) direction, more....more....POETRY."
I constantly think about all of the quoted above, BUT:
"some effort...the latter being inversely proportional to the sum of the formers."
I am lazy. I know that when I write, I settle. Here, I was so focused on using one-syllable words while keeping its form consistent. Those are the two major things I focused on. Everything else was irrelevant to me.
"The other crits have tried politely to see the King's new clothes but I see him bullock naked."
Yes, I've felt that people are trying very hard to be kind because I write about "sensitive subjects" (who doesn't?).
As far as nonsense, I don't understand why you think it is nonsense. As a poet, even while reading a bad poem, shouldn't you have enough of an understanding of poetry to put the pieces together and figure out there is something in the body of it?
I think it is an obvious effort in describing personal strife. Inflated with nonsensical metaphors, yes... But it isn't complete nonsense.
OK burr, I agree. It is incomplete nonsensense. Something big is missing. If it was clear in intent I could spend an hour and find it but it is YOU who wants to be understood. As the crit I am not unduly concerned with the subjectivity of translation, I think what I think, but I would like to be able to read about "sensitive subjects" without the shackles of obscurity. It is said often on this site that metaphors by definition should clarify not obfuscate...if obscurity is what you give me, it is not a metaphor.
Best,
tectak
(05-17-2017, 09:55 AM)billy Wrote: metaphor is one of the stock poetic devices we should all endevour to use but if they're too far away to workout as most here are; they fail. it's easy for you to understand them, you wrote them, would you understand similar one's if someone else wrote them?
(05-17-2017, 03:15 PM)tectak Wrote: OK burr, I agree. It is incomplete nonsensense. Something big is missing. If it was clear in intent I could spend an hour and find it but it is YOU who wants to be understood. As the crit I am not unduly concerned with the subjectivity of translation, I think what I think, but I would like to be able to read about "sensitive subjects" without the shackles of obscurity. It is said often on this site that metaphors by definition should clarify not obfuscate...if obscurity is what you give me, it is not a metaphor.
Best,
tectak
Alright, point taken. Billy said it right: it's a stock poetic device. We're taught in all our elementary classes what they are, but we probably don't learn how to use them correctly.
So, each "poem" I've posted here I am going to re-evaluate and make more concrete. Less artsy. Blunt (because I said I like blunt). And then if I don't think it amounts to anything special, I'm going to throw it out and start fresh.
On a different note, this poem isn't about anything special. This is not considered "sensitive", but in other ones I've written I think these critiques and responses are relevant.
