cherished

[nibbed]

It's best not
to painfully watch.

I'm not as poor
as the bits of hamburger
thrown in a piranha tank;

you see, I know
my end will really be
my beginning,

unlike the souls of men
who suffer intensely
never having been
cherished in this world
as they should have been.

They almost
cannot comprehend the One
who holds back the flooding tides,

He who spins the Earth
and nurses the galaxies
in His palm

might just be
truly in love with them.

[Richard]

Hey Janine,
I found this to be a moving piece, and this is coming from someone who isn't a big believer in "the One." I'll go into greater detail below:

Hey, friend -I found that this first line makes the poem almost sounds like a letter. Was that intentional? I would suggest dropping this line and add an "it's" to the next line. It would then read "It's best not". However, that's just my opinion on the wording, and there really isn't anything wrong with the way you worded it.
best not
to painfully watch.

I'm really not as poor
as the bits of hamburger
thrown in a piranha tank; -I like the imagery in this stanza. It gives me the impression that the speaker is sick and dying from a terrible disease (cancer?).

You see, I know
my end will really be
my beginning, -This is the paradox of the afterlife summed up.

unlike the souls of men
who painfully suffer -"painfully suffer" is a bit repetitive
never having been
cherished in this world
as they should have been. -The last three lines in this stanza just make me sad, which is a good thing because that is what they're supposed to do.

They almost -Just a question, but why "almost"?
cannot comprehend the One
who holds back the flooding tides,

He who spins the Earth,
and nurses the galaxies
in His palm -I really like last two lines in this stanza. It creates an interesting image in my mind.

might just be
truly truly -I think you only need one "truly" here.
in love with them.

I find it interesting that the speaker goes from describing their own physical death to reflecting on others who are spiritually dead. I think this is a strong piece that just needs some minor tweaks, and I look forward to seeing where you take this from here.

Cheers,
Richard

[nibbed]

Hey Janine,
I found this to be a moving piece, and this is coming from someone who isn't a big believer in "the One." I'll go into greater detail below:

Hey, friend -I found that this first line makes the poem almost sounds like a letter. Was that intentional? I would suggest dropping this line and add an "it's" to the next line. It would then read "It's best not". However, that's just my opinion on the wording, and there really isn't anything wrong with the way you worded it.
best not
to painfully watch.

I'm really not as poor
as the bits of hamburger
thrown in a piranha tank; -I like the imagery in this stanza. It gives me the impression that the speaker is sick and dying from a terrible disease (cancer?).

You see, I know
my end will really be
my beginning, -This is the paradox of the afterlife summed up.

unlike the souls of men
who painfully suffer -"painfully suffer" is a bit repetitive
never having been
cherished in this world
as they should have been. -The last three lines in this stanza just make me sad, which is a good thing because that is what they're supposed to do.

They almost -Just a question, but why "almost"?
cannot comprehend the One
who holds back the flooding tides,

He who spins the Earth,
and nurses the galaxies
in His palm -I really like last two lines in this stanza. It creates an interesting image in my mind.

might just be
truly truly -I think you only need one "truly" here.
in love with them.

I find it interesting that the speaker goes from describing their own physical death to reflecting on others who are spiritually dead. I think this is a strong piece that just needs some minor tweaks, and I look forward to seeing where you take this from here.

Cheers,
Richard

Thanks Richard,
you critiqued perfectly.
I will take your advice.

Oh, I changed it, the "almost",
I added it in the last second...
for Hope's sake.

please be blessed
janine

[tectak]

Hey, friend
best not
to painfully watch.inversions never make things better. ..unless you are a Startrek fan....then you can boldly go.

I'm really not as poorsoon, I will start a campaign to abolish the word "really". Find another word really, really soon
as the bits of hamburgerthis lends a whole new meaning to the word "poor". In what way is the hamburger poor? This is a poor quantative comparison...it's the old chestnut where apples are compared to orangutans...almost.
thrown in a piranha tank;colonic overload. Totally misused semi.

You see, I know
my end will really be
my beginning,this is trite if not cliched...or even both...and it uses the redundant form of "really". What is the point of the word? Leave it out and tell me what is the difference.

unlike the souls of menhere we go again. You are describing the difference between an onion and music....your end (?) and the souls of men...huh?
who painfully suffer
never having been
cherished in this world
as they should have been.this is a wildly formed and totally unsubstantiated theory in which you make supposition based upon supposition. The whole concept is too large...souls and suffering...for this preachy and opinionated injection. Please don't get me wrong...this IS a poem and so opinions are delegated to character not author BUT you fail to convince the reader that the character has credentials. The reliance upon the acceptance of the statement needs acceptance of the existence of the soul and knowledge a priori of  suffering claimed...otherwise the point is not made. This is a general observation which preachiness seems to rely on.

They almost
cannot comprehend the One I could not fail to disagree with you less (Boris Johnson rules K O?)
who holds back the flooding tides, you see now what has happened? Because the character has assumed that a great truth has been uncovered we are all off on a god trip with no evidence for (or faith in) the outcome. That you, the writer, attributes this revelation to the character is not clearly seen...as the reader I can see your hand up the glove puppet. Again, this critique is only of the poem...it is inconsistent in its purpose.

He who spins the Earth,
and nurses the galaxies
in His palmI have no idea what or who this is about...could be any supernatural mythical non-entity. So in conclusion it is just short of a conclusion...will it come in the final final stanza?

might just be
truly truly
in love with them.nope. It really, really, truly, truly IS inconclusive...or might be

Hi nibs,
bit of an unhappy-clappy congregational outpouring. You have not established either ethos...poetic or purpose. No rhythm, no rhyme, no subtle metaphorical clarifications...unless you think the hamburger/piranha scenario is fitting the bill....no assonance, no sensible punctuation, random capitalising, strange and purposeless enjambments/line lengths. As a personal genre this may be just you but I am the reader. If I said there must be a better way to write this piece you are entitled to say there must be a better way to read it. I will try.
Best,
tectak

[nibbed]

Hey, friend
best not
to painfully watch.inversions never make things better. ..unless you are a Startrek fan....then you can boldly go.

I'm really not as poorsoon, I will start a campaign to abolish the word "really". Find another word really, really soon
as the bits of hamburgerthis lends a whole new meaning to the word "poor". In what way is the hamburger poor? This is a poor quantative comparison...it's the old chestnut where apples are compared to orangutans...almost.
thrown in a piranha tank;colonic overload. Totally misused semi.

You see, I know
my end will really be
my beginning,this is trite if not cliched...or even both...and it uses the redundant form of "really". What is the point of the word? Leave it out and tell me what is the difference.

unlike the souls of menhere we go again. You are describing the difference between an onion and music....your end (?) and the souls of men...huh?
who painfully suffer
never having been
cherished in this world
as they should have been.this is a wildly formed and totally unsubstantiated theory in which you make supposition based upon supposition. The whole concept is too large...souls and suffering...for this preachy and opinionated injection. Please don't get me wrong...this IS a poem and so opinions are delegated to character not author BUT you fail to convince the reader that the character has credentials. The reliance upon the acceptance of the statement needs acceptance of the existence of the soul and knowledge a priori of  suffering claimed...otherwise the point is not made. This is a general observation which preachiness seems to rely on.

They almost
cannot comprehend the One I could not fail to disagree with you less (Boris Johnson rules K O?)
who holds back the flooding tides, you see now what has happened? Because the character has assumed that a great truth has been uncovered we are all off on a god trip with no evidence for (or faith in) the outcome. That you, the writer, attributes this revelation to the character is not clearly seen...as the reader I can see your hand up the glove puppet. Again, this critique is only of the poem...it is inconsistent in its purpose.

He who spins the Earth,
and nurses the galaxies
in His palmI have no idea what or who this is about...could be any supernatural mythical non-entity. So in conclusion it is just short of a conclusion...will it come in the final final stanza?

might just be
truly truly
in love with them.nope. It really, really, truly, truly IS inconclusive...or might be

Hi nibs,
bit of an unhappy-clappy congregational outpouring. You have not established either ethos...poetic or purpose. No rhythm, no rhyme, no subtle metaphorical clarifications...unless you think the hamburger/piranha scenario is fitting the bill....no assonance, no sensible punctuation, random capitalising, strange and purposeless enjambments/line lengths. As a personal genre this may be just you but I am the reader. If I said there must be a better way to write this piece you are entitled to say there must be a better way to read it. I will try.
Best,
tectak

Hi tectak

I will sincerely consider your suggestions. I used the word hamburger thinking only of the fate of the cow being slaughtered, ground up and ultimately fed to the vicious fury of hungry ones who are led only by instinct. Of course as the reader, you could not know where the mind of this author is.  I will need to reconcile why you thought capitalization was random, but I often overlook things and find myself often challenged with proper grammar.  Thank you kindly for your wonderful and extensive critique. I hope your day is filled with joy and happiness.  Janine

[tectak]

Hey, friend
best not
to painfully watch.inversions never make things better. ..unless you are a Startrek fan....then you can boldly [[[go.

I'm really not as poorsoon, I will start a campaign to abolish the word "really". Find another word really, really soon
as the bits of hamburgerthis lends a whole new meaning to the word "poor". In what way is the hamburger poor? This is a poor quantative comparison...it's the old chestnut where apples are compared to orangutans...almost.
thrown in a piranha tank;colonic overload. Totally misused semi.

You see, I know
my end will really be
my beginning,this is trite if not cliched...or even both...and it uses the redundant form of "really". What is the point of the word? Leave it out and tell me what is the difference.

unlike the souls of menhere we go again. You are describing the difference between an onion and music....your end (?) and the souls of men...huh?
who painfully suffer
never having been
cherished in this world
as they should have been.this is a wildly formed and totally unsubstantiated theory in which you make supposition based upon supposition. The whole concept is too large...souls and suffering...for this preachy and opinionated injection. Please don't get me wrong...this IS a poem and so opinions are delegated to character not author BUT you fail to convince the reader that the character has credentials. The reliance upon the acceptance of the statement needs acceptance of the existence of the soul and knowledge a priori of  suffering claimed...otherwise the point is not made. This is a general observation which preachiness seems to rely on.

They almost
cannot comprehend the One I could not fail to disagree with you less (Boris Johnson rules K O?)
who holds back the flooding tides, you see now what has happened? Because the character has assumed that a great truth has been uncovered we are all off on a god trip with no evidence for (or faith in) the outcome. That you, the writer, attributes this revelation to the character is not clearly seen...as the reader I can see your hand up the glove puppet. Again, this critique is only of the poem...it is inconsistent in its purpose.

He who spins the Earth,
and nurses the galaxies
in His palmI have no idea what or who this is about...could be any supernatural mythical non-entity. So in conclusion it is just short of a conclusion...will it come in the final final stanza?

might just be
truly truly
in love with them.nope. It really, really, truly, truly IS inconclusive...or might be

Hi nibs,
bit of an unhappy-clappy congregational outpouring. You have not established either ethos...poetic or purpose. No rhythm, no rhyme, no subtle metaphorical clarifications...unless you think the hamburger/piranha scenario is fitting the bill....no assonance, no sensible punctuation, random capitalising, strange and purposeless enjambments/line lengths. As a personal genre this may be just you but I am the reader. If I said there must be a better way to write this piece you are entitled to say there must be a better way to read it. I will try.
Best,
tectak

Hi tectak

I will sincerely consider your suggestions. I used the word hamburger thinking only of the fate of the cow being slaughtered, ground up and ultimately fed to the vicious fury of hungry ones who are led only by instinct. Of course as the reader, you could not know where the mind of this author is.  I will need to reconcile why you thought capitalization was random, but I often overlook things and find myself often challenged with proper grammar.  Thank you kindly for your wonderful and extensive critique. I hope your day is filled with joy and happiness.  Janine

Regarding the hamburger. I now have less idea of what you are trying to say after your explanation than I did before you er...clarified your thinking Regarding the capitals. For some reason you end on commas and semicolons(flooding tides, He who...tank; You) and so this may be a grammar issue. Only if the punctuation is deemed to be a justified period (which includes question and exclamation marks) should you begin next paraphrase/sentence with a capital letter. Neither a semi or a full colon require a following capital letter.
Best,
tectak

[nibbed]

Hi nibs,
bit of an unhappy-clappy congregational outpouring. You have not established either ethos...poetic or purpose. No rhythm, no rhyme, no subtle metaphorical clarifications...unless you think the hamburger/piranha scenario is fitting the bill....no assonance, no sensible punctuation, random capitalising, strange and purposeless enjambments/line lengths. As a personal genre this may be just you but I am the reader. If I said there must be a better way to write this piece you are entitled to say there must be a better way to read it. I will try.
Best,
tectak

Hi tectak

I will sincerely consider your suggestions. I used the word hamburger thinking only of the fate of the cow being slaughtered, ground up and ultimately fed to the vicious fury of hungry ones who are led only by instinct. Of course as the reader, you could not know where the mind of this author is.  I will need to reconcile why you thought capitalization was random, but I often overlook things and find myself often challenged with proper grammar.  Thank you kindly for your wonderful and extensive critique. I hope your day is filled with joy and happiness.  Janine

Regarding the hamburger. I now have less idea of what you are trying to say after your explanation than I did before you er...clarified your thinking Regarding the capitals. For some reason you end on commas and semicolons(flooding tides, He who...tank; You) and so this may be a grammar issue. Only if the punctuation is deemed to be a justified period (which includes question and exclamation marks) should you begin next paraphrase/sentence with a capital letter. Neither a semi or a full colon require a following capital letter.
Best,
tectak

Thank you kindly!
That was very helpful to me

janine

[67eager]

I find that this poem very beautifully discusses the idea of an afterlife, going through all the different entities that will cease to exist, and how each deals with it. I like how the god which is described in this poem is the one conceived by Spinoza; the universal god of order, rather than that of intervention. You talk about theology in a very unimposing, and convincing way. To enhance the effectiveness of this poem, there are definately changes that I would advise: 


It's best not
to painfully watch.- Has this got any link to the remainder of the poem? Or is it just a general idea? Perhaps try to clarify this by elaborating on it. 

I'm not as poor
as the bits of hamburger
thrown in a piranha tank; you seem to be referring to the fact that bits of hamburger are lifeless, and thus not granted access to the afterlife. Of course, the fate of the hamburger isn't really much to aspire to either. 

you see, I know
my end will really be
my beginning, This is the first overtly religious reference in the poem

unlike the souls of men
who suffer intensely
never having been
cherished in this world
as they should have been.

They almost 
cannot comprehend the One Does this mean that they can 'comprehend the one'? If so, why do they suffer 'intensely'? Ask yourself these questions, and answer them in the poem for the benefit of the reader.
who holds back the flooding tides, Clearly not all the flooding tides...

He who spins the Earth,
and nurses the galaxies
in His palm Very beautiful cosmological imagery. Is there a particular reason why there is a capital on 'Him'? Does it enhance his greatness?

might just be
truly in love with them. Very lovely ending here. It links well with the first two lines of the poem.
[/quote]

[nibbed]

I find that this poem very beautifully discusses the idea of an afterlife, going through all the different entities that will cease to exist, and how each deals with it. I like how the god which is described in this poem is the one conceived by Spinoza; the universal god of order, rather than that of intervention. You talk about theology in a very unimposing, and convincing way. To enhance the effectiveness of this poem, there are definately changes that I would advise: 


It's best not
to painfully watch.- Has this got any link to the remainder of the poem? Or is it just a general idea? Perhaps try to clarify this by elaborating on it. 

I'm not as poor
as the bits of hamburger
thrown in a piranha tank; you seem to be referring to the fact that bits of hamburger are lifeless, and thus not granted access to the afterlife. Of course, the fate of the hamburger isn't really much to aspire to either. 

you see, I know
my end will really be
my beginning, This is the first overtly religious reference in the poem

unlike the souls of men
who suffer intensely
never having been
cherished in this world
as they should have been.

They almost 
cannot comprehend the One Does this mean that they can 'comprehend the one'? If so, why do they suffer 'intensely'? Ask yourself these questions, and answer them in the poem for the benefit of the reader.
who holds back the flooding tides, Clearly not all the flooding tides...

He who spins the Earth,
and nurses the galaxies
in His palm Very beautiful cosmological imagery. Is there a particular reason why there is a capital on 'Him'? Does it enhance his greatness?

might just be
truly in love with them. Very lovely ending here. It links well with the first two lines of the poem.

[/quote]


Hi, 67eager

Thank you for the kind consideration of my poem, your interpretation was much different than the author's intent, but your feedback certainly encouraged me to sharpen up my direction! Thank you very very kindly for your thoughtful comments! I hope your evening is very pleasant and lovely.

janine

[vagabond]

It's best not
to painfully watch.                Why close your eyes to suffering (it´s the only way i can understand those two lines)? while this might in extreme cases be healthy to prevent emotional trauma i wouldn´t suggest it in a poem about faith and love.

I'm not as poor
as the bits of hamburger
thrown in a piranha tank;          why not? everyone of us is mortal concerning this life. if there is an afterlife i guess we´d meet the cows there too (unless there is a separation by species)

you see, I know                              "believe" instead of "know". there´s nothing wrong with belief, but our knowledge is limited to the physical universe we are part of.
my end will really be
my beginning,

unlike the souls of men
who suffer intensely
never having been
cherished in this world                   
as they should have been.

They almost
cannot comprehend the One                    an arrogant assumption that it were possible to comprehend god at all.
who holds back the flooding tides,     point instead of comma.

He who spins the Earth,                        
and nurses the galaxies
in His palm

might just be
truly in love with them.                       .... unspoken end: if only they would believe? or what is the condition for "might" to turn into "is"? 

i really think you want to convince the reader. 
faith per se is not something i should want to criticize. but a poem about faith is.
if you want me to consider that there is this god who promises an afterlife and that there is no love for those who do not believe it, then you would have to try better.
fear of pain and suffering as well as verbal statements of gods allmightyness are no foundation for faith.
if you want the reader to believe then you´d  have to express HOW you experience that feeling. you need not necessarily state why.
but

i apologize in advance since i fear this reply may be too offensive, i have the feeling that you wrote this as a form of prayer.

[nibbed]

It's best not
to painfully watch.                Why close your eyes to suffering (it´s the only way i can understand those two lines)? while this might in extreme cases be healthy to prevent emotional trauma i wouldn´t suggest it in a poem about faith and love.

I'm not as poor
as the bits of hamburger
thrown in a piranha tank;          why not? everyone of us is mortal concerning this life. if there is an afterlife i guess we´d meet the cows there too (unless there is a separation by species)

you see, I know                              "believe" instead of "know". there´s nothing wrong with belief, but our knowledge is limited to the physical universe we are part of.
my end will really be
my beginning,

unlike the souls of men
who suffer intensely
never having been
cherished in this world                   
as they should have been.

They almost
cannot comprehend the One                    an arrogant assumption that it were possible to comprehend god at all.
who holds back the flooding tides,     point instead of comma.

He who spins the Earth,                        
and nurses the galaxies
in His palm

might just be
truly in love with them.                       .... unspoken end: if only they would believe? or what is the condition for "might" to turn into "is"? 

i really think you want to convince the reader. 
faith per se is not something i should want to criticize. but a poem about faith is.
if you want me to consider that there is this god who promises an afterlife and that there is no love for those who do not believe it, then you would have to try better.
fear of pain and suffering as well as verbal statements of gods allmightyness are no foundation for faith.
if you want the reader to believe then you´d  have to express HOW you experience that feeling. you need not necessarily state why.
but

i apologize in advance since i fear this reply may be too offensive, i have the feeling that you wrote this as a form of prayer.

Hi vagabond,

Thank you kindly for your critique.
I try not to get offended just because someone has a different view then me.
Being critical doesn't always mean someone doesn't care or even love another.
I am just learning this stuff...forever learning.
I wrote the poem when I was feeling terribly sad (and worried some).
Thank you for considering my poem, that is very kind.

I hope you have a joy-filled day
and someone or something gives
you a big lasting smile today.

janine

[vagabond]

" I wrote the poem when I was feeling terribly sad (and worried some). "

so.. it might have been a prayer.
maybe if you somehow include those feelings of sadness and worry in your poem.. don´t close your eyes to suffering, not even to your own.

[Mark Cecil]

Hey nibbed really liked your poem.  I appreciate a good religious poem now and again but understand its hard for those of no faith to have the same appreciation

It's best not
to painfully watch. As already noted I'm not a big fan of the inversion here perhaps "to watch painfully" is preferable.  I'd only keep inversion if your trying to write in meter but this poem is free verse.

I'm not as poor
as the bits of hamburger I don't like the use of hamburger here it strikes images of commercialism rather than image I think your trying to create of a cow being eaten by the piranhas.  Perhaps the use of the word beef might be more appropriate. However I think you could maybe focus on the end of cattle's life rather than who eats them as it would parallel more with the end of human life in the next two stanzas
thrown in a piranha tank;

you see, I know
my end will really be
my beginning, Some might find this offensive if they don't agree but I quite like it probably because I agree.

unlike the souls of men 
who suffer intensely
never having been
cherished in this world
as they should have been. I won't want to focus too much on those who suffer in the afterlife but that's just me.

They almost
cannot comprehend the One
who holds back the flooding tides,

He who spins the Earth
and nurses the galaxies
in His palm good imagery

might just be
truly in love with them. There doesn't appear to be much hope for them as there already dead

[vagabond]

Hey nibbed really liked your poem.  I appreciate a good religious poem now and again but understand its hard for those of no faith to have the same appreciation

it may be hard to set up parameters to determine exactly who has faith and who has not... since one can have faith in many things.. it´s hard to describe (for me)

a muslim might appreciate the same poem differently than a hindu or christian, etc.
yet they all have faith. but that is not where i meant to go.

if anything my lack of a specific faith might have made it easier for me to criticize.
and criticism is not the opposite of appreciation, infact it has very little to do with it.

but  carelessness made me write something harsh:
i wrote: "faith per se is not something i should want to criticize. but a poem about faith is. "
for that i apologize. i did not mean to somehow express that poems about faith should be more criticized than those with other themes.. (neither less).

[Achebe]

It's best not
to painfully watch.

I'm not as poor
as the bits of hamburger
thrown in a piranha tank;   ... don't understand how hambgurger is 'poor'

you see, I know
my end will really be
my beginning,.....this theme has been done to death, and really, after East Coker, you can't use this anymore 

unlike the souls of men ....you know unlike the souls of men? Is that a valid comparison?
who suffer intensely
never having been
cherished in this world 
as they should have been. ..... why should they have been? At this stage, it's looking a little incoherent ans incomprehensible 

They almost
cannot comprehend the One
who holds back the flooding tides, ....holds or held? A reference to the biblical myth is okay, but saying that the One "holds back the flooding tides" in the present tense is ignorance of physics and geography 

He who spins the Earth
and nurses the galaxies
in His palm .....you are going for grandeur here, but the images are hackneyed and do not inspire 

might just be
truly in love with them.     ..... prosaic 

Hello nibbed - spiritual poetry is song. Make it more lyrical.
Best.