spring haiku, quantity 1, date: 2017-03-22

[rayheinrich]

version 5:
        azaleas
        new -
        again



version 4:
        azaleas
        begin -
        again



version 3:
        azaleas
        become -
        again



version 2:
        azaleas
        new -
        again



version 1:
        flowers
        new -
        again



with help from lizzie and burrealist and amaril

[Lizzie]

What about a specific flower instead of the general noun?

Otherwise, I love.

[rayheinrich]

What about a specific flower instead of the general noun?

Otherwise, I love.

done
(changed "flowers" to "azaleas" which, being a spring kigo and all, makes it even more like a haiku)

[burrealist]

        azaleas
        new (What if you used a less colloquial word?)
        again

One word each line- nice.

[rayheinrich]

        azaleas
        new (What if you used a less colloquial word?)
        again

One word each line- nice.

The tension in the poem is created by the paradox of something being new more than once.
That's not possible, yet spring manages to pull off this miracle every year.
So... with that in mind, come up with another word that fits and I'll use it.
(Except for 'neoteric', no way I'll use that one.)

[burrealist]

        azaleas
        new (What if you used a less colloquial word?)
        again

One word each line- nice.

The tension in the poem is created by the paradox of something being new more than once.
That's not possible, yet spring manages to pull off this miracle every year.
So... with that in mind, come up with another word that fits and I'll use it.
(Except for 'neoteric', no way I'll use that one.)

Do you want a short, simple word?
Because short words are typically colloquial.

Looking through a thesaurus- here is a list of considerations:

-Breathe (but azaleas don't have lungs)
-Live (although still colloquial, and probably not as powerful as "new")
-Prevail (may be misleading)
-Exist (have they ever not existed?)
-Mortalize (not a word, apparently)
-Be (kind of elusive and strange)
-Become (maybe?)
-Continue (this word seems to create that tension)
-Last (this is elusive, although it creates tension)

[rayheinrich]

One word each line- nice.

The tension in the poem is created by the paradox of something being new more than once.
That's not possible, yet spring manages to pull off this miracle every year.
So... with that in mind, come up with another word that fits and I'll use it.
(Except for 'neoteric', no way I'll use that one.)

Do you want a short, simple word?
Because short words are typically colloquial.

Looking through a thesaurus- here is a list of considerations:

-Breathe (but azaleas don't have lungs)
-Live (although still colloquial, and probably not as powerful as "new")
-Prevail (may be misleading)
-Exist (have they ever not existed?)
-Mortalize (not a word, apparently)
-Be (kind of elusive and strange)
-Become (maybe?)
-Continue (this word seems to create that tension)
-Last (this is elusive, although it creates tension)

I think 'breathe' (in poetry, azaleas don't have to have lungs), 'live', and 'are' (be)
would all make good poems, but wouldn't mean what using 'new' means.
'Last' and 'continue' would create the same tension.
I think the closest is 'become' so I'll use that one.

[amaril]

tbh this is a bad poem, and your revisions haven't done much to improve it (the 3rd one actually made it worse). With short poetry in particular I think a couple of things are important: 1) the poem can serve as a starting point for a train of thought. This is not my original idea, and it is typically accomplished by giving the poem a sort of 'resonance' which is the product of (at least) two juxtaposed ideas. Based on your comment re the tension in this poem, I feel like you hold a similar opinion. 2) the poem's meaning is clear. This does not mean that all implications of the 'meaning' are clear, but it means that the poem's meaning is literally comprehensible.

Although you point out that there is inherent tension between the words "new" and "again," that is basically all there is to say about the comparison. 'The poem is about reincarnation as it occurs in nature' or whatever. I guess the azalea mirrors the seasons as a whole; it is not an entirely terrible idea, but it is nothing more than the de facto spring cliche that everyone is accustomed to.

Re point 2) each version of this poem is syntactically unintuitive and needlessly obtuse. "azaleas/ begin/ again" is what you are looking for, I think, but it still isn't a good poem re point 1.

A poem should be insightful (or else unrelentingly dense), and that perhaps requires the addition of another object or at least a point of view. If I were to remake this poem following your 1 word/3 lines 'rule' I would do something like "welcome/ back/ azaleas" or, if I felt like being cute, "welcome/ home/ azaleas" either of which retains the 'meaning' of your original poem while adding an additional dimension.

[rayheinrich]

tbh this is a bad poem, and your revisions haven't done much to improve it (the 3rd one actually made it worse).  With short poetry in particular I think a couple of things are important: 1) the poem can serve as a starting point for a train of thought.  This is not my original idea, and it is typically accomplished by giving the poem a sort of 'resonance' which is the product of (at least) two juxtaposed ideas.  Based on your comment re the tension in this poem, I feel like you hold a similar opinion.  2) the poem's meaning is clear.  This does not mean that all implications of the 'meaning' are clear, but it means that the poem's meaning is literally comprehensible.

Although you point out that there is inherent tension between the words "new" and "again," that is basically all there is to say about the comparison. 'The poem is about reincarnation as it occurs in nature' or whatever.  I guess the azalea mirrors the seasons as a whole; it is not an entirely terrible idea, but it is nothing more than the de facto spring cliche that everyone is accustomed to.

Re point 2) each version of this poem is syntactically unintuitive and needlessly obtuse.  "azaleas/ begin/ again" is what you are looking for, I think, but it still isn't a good poem re point 1.

A poem should be insightful (or else unrelentingly dense), and that perhaps requires the addition of another object or at least a point of view.  If I were to remake this poem following your 1 word/3 lines 'rule' I would do something like "welcome/ back/ azaleas" or, if I felt like being cute, "welcome/ home/ azaleas" either of which retains the 'meaning' of your original poem while adding an additional dimension.

I like "azaleas/ begin/ again"; I think that makes for a great latest revision.
While I find "welcome/ back/ azaleas" and "welcome/ home/ azaleas" aesthetically
pleasing, they don't express the contradiction inherent in something that
has the ability to be 'new' more than once. I think contemplating that contradiction
qualifies as the starting point for a train of thought. My intent was to have it function as
a Zen koan -- but you know what they say about good intentions...  

[Lizzie]

I liked "new." Version 2 is my favorite.

[rayheinrich]

I liked "new." Version 2 is my favorite.

Yeah, you're right, there's nothing that says "new" better than "new".
That word is the absurdly simple (and profound) heart of the poem.
So... rev 5 it is.

[burrealist]

tbh this is a bad poem

It actually isn't. Something profoundly simple can go right over the head of an oblivious person. As the word "new" seemed colloquial to me, the tension wasn't obvious because I didn't delve into the meaning.

"This is a bad poem" was a bad critique. Actually, it wasn't a critique, it was an opinion.

Please refrain from critiquing the other critics within a poem thread.  If you wish to make comments outside the parameters of your own critique of the poem, you may take it to the sewer or the arse.  Thank you for your cooperation.  --Quix/mod 

[Lizzie]

I liked "new." Version 2 is my favorite.

Yeah, you're right, there's nothing that says "new" better than "new".
That word is the absurdly simple (and profound) heart of the poem.
So... rev 5 it is.

"Just for the record: I use a very limited vocabulary in all my poems; common words,
mostly single syllable and hardly ever three. I do this because I like the aesthetic simplicity it
lends to the poem. Using simple words, by the way, does not limit you to simple concepts."

~Ray Heinrich