Syllable count

[Merrikay]

How do you determine how many syllables a word has if unsure? It was brought to my attention that some words I've thought to have two syllables i.e. 'Frail' only have one. My Appalachian accent is throwing me for a loop. I searched the threads and couldn't find an answer.

[Wjames]

Frail could have two syllables, or one, depending on it's pronunciation "fray - el" or "frayl". I definitely say "frayl".

Like "aluminium" has 4 syllables when spoken with an American accent, but 5 syllables with a British accent.

I would just try and base it on however you pronounce the word.

[billy]

the dictionary is a friend though i'd say if that's how you pronounce a word, that's the way to write it. if you do know that everyone else reads it a certain way then write it that way unless it's meant to be in the vernacular.

[Merrikay]

Hm, alright then. Thank you both!

[QDeathstar]

I think this is why Haiku's stopped having such a rigid syllable count. Who has time to figure out how many syllables there are in the word "because".

[CRNDLSM]

What's really fun is smudging multiple syllables words into one
I was full,
my words untlgble.

[Leanne]

I find it depends on the surrounding words as to how some words are pronounced, e.g. fire, Ireland, frail (as you say).  Diphthongs get a bit tricky, and of course accent mucks things about too.  I write the way I say things but do try to not confuse people too much (for example, it really seems to upset Americans when I use the word "arse" because they think it doesn't rhyme with "grass" that way.  It totally does when I say it.  And my husband is Scottish, so for him it's perfectly acceptable to rhyme "girl" and "squirrel".  Language is weird.)

[Merrikay]

 Language is weird.)

Probably why I like it so much.

[ellajam]

 Language is weird.)

Probably why I like it so much.

Yep, that's the fun of it and, for me, the fun of workshopping here. If a word fits to some and not others I'll often keep it but when most pronounce it differently it's a trouble maker and I'll look for a substitute. If I love the word too much to give it up I listen to different pronunciations (just google)  and find a less offensive position for it.

[aschueler]

I have mixed feelings. I am from the South generally, but not totally. I wonder about the totality of Webster's or Cambridge dictionaries.

Regardless, hearing poetry with a two syllable frail would be enjoyable to me.

The frail vile vial of evil fails in the fire.

[ellajam]

you can rhyme frail with betrayal, mmmm.

[aschueler]

The frail vile vial of evil fails in the fire.

forgot the punchline:  how many syllables do you see?

[Merrikay]

Hm, 14. Interesting that I read 'vile with one and 'vial' with two. I also want to give fire two, trying to say it with one sounds like 'fur'.

[Leanne]

Americans always seem to have trouble with those r endings

For me, war rhymes with saw but it really upsets some people if I write it like that. That's why I write it like that. People who get upset that other people don't say things the same as them deserve to be provoked.

Think of fire as one and a half...

[Merrikay]

I can see how obsessing over syllables could drive one crazy.
I'm trying to get a good grasp on meter, kind of confusing with somewhat subjective stuff!

[Leanne]

Write it as you say it. Meter is just your back beat, the rhythm holding the words together -- and the words are meant to be said out loud.

A good rule of thumb is that if you can't sing it, it's not metric. (Of course, sometimes you CAN sing it and it's not metric, but if you can't then it definitely isn't. See how that makes sense? )

Tap it out on the desk (I still do sometimes and I've been doing this for a squidzillion years). Get the meter fixed in your head FIRST and then say your lines to see if they fit. It will come to you, but it might not happen quickly. Most likely you'll try and try and swear you'll never get it until one day, hey! I totally hear it!

Or you'll die trying.

[aschueler]

Americans always seem to have trouble with those r endings

... People who get upset that other people don't say things the same as them deserve to be provoked.

One of the best lines I have seen in a while.  If I had a tag line interest it would be that.

I think colloquialisms are just as apt IF the whole poem is consistent, especially if it's a native/local writing true.

However, most people probably dont agree with me.

In other words, let frail have two syllables if it fits with the accent and tone of everything else.

[Merrikay]

Thank you, I understand the general consensus on it now, and you all even answered questions I didn't know I had.

Leanne, I'll work on trying to get the beat in my head first, thanks for the tip!