Did Leonard Cohen weep when he heard
what happened here -- what happened there --
the man's so Zen
I don't think he went to heaven.
I don't think he needed God
when he cried out Hallelujah
on nine/eleven --
he cried out of posterity.
It's the Chelsea Hotel he missed
when the bell tolled for him, when he sank
deep into Abraham's bosom --
2. Reply to a Postcard
How could you
walking dead on red saliva dew
still smell blue
when that cold breath
you call a taut string death
snaps at Jew
and laughs?
Neck and neck,
some greater horror waits for me,
I'm sure. Shot in the head, at least you
had a Fanni and her fanny too
to comfort you -- while I,
I'm far too young.
1. Duino Castle
He grasped and let go, chose and achieved, but you,
you grasped and gave, held on and stole
some minute portion of the glory for yourself,
not caring about the Other. Distant, all you did
was fear, or weep, or wave with cleverness --
all we did. But hearing again God's call
and wrestling with his angel, now I see: there are the men
who do the deeds, and then there are the men
who tell them. Like you, I shan't sing fact
when the heroes are revealed, when these ravening rivers
of moral men and clowns are drowned in gas:
distant, I will paint the picture of another Samson
tearing down the pillars of Satan's tomb
then show it as truth to the rising dead.
3. Woodstock in Taguig
Tell me when it's time to march --
I will not march.
Show me what you're fighting for --
I will not march.
Give me your thoughts, give me your feelings --
I'll understand, and will not march.
Feel me with hope, teach me with love --
all the more, I will not march.
Threaten me with the doom of an age --
I will not march.
Witness this: on the road to Yasgur's farm,
Capitol Hill, Malacañang,
a black thing lies --
for what is stardust,
billion-year-old carbon,
but some ugly lump of coal?
World War 3
0. Another Stranger Song
Did Leonard Cohen weep when he heard
what happened here -- what happened there --
the man's so Zen
I don't think he went to heaven.
I don't think he needed God
when he cried out Hallelujah
on nine/eleven --
he cried out of posterity.
It's the Chelsea Hotel
he missed when the bell
tolled for him, when he sank
deep into Abraham's bosom --
2. Reply to a Postcard
How could you
walking dead on red slaver dew
still smell blue
when that cold infernal breath
you call a taut string death
snaps at Jew
and laughs?
Neck and neck,
some greater horror waits for me,
I'm sure. Shot in the head, at least you
had a Fanni and her fanny too
to comfort you -- while I,
I'm far too young.
1. Duino Castle
He grasped and let go, chose and achieved, but you,
you grasped and gave, held on and stole
some minute portion of the glory for yourself,
not caring about the Other. Distant, all you did
was fear, or weep, or wave with cleverness --
all we did. But hearing again God's call
and wrestling with his angel, now I see: there are the men
who do the deeds, and then there are the men
who tell them. Like you, I shan't sing fact
when the heroes are revealed, when these ravening rivers
of righteous men and clowns are drowned in gas:
distant, I will paint the picture of another Samson
tearing down the pillars of Satan's tomb
then show it as truth to the rising dead.
3. Woodstock in Taguig
Tell me when it's time to march --
I will not march.
Show me what you're fighting for --
I will not march.
Give me your thoughts, give me your feelings --
I'll understand, and will not march.
Feel me with hope, teach me with love --
all the more, I will not march.
Threaten me with the doom of an age --
I will not march.
Witness this: on the road to Yasgur's farm,
Capitol Hill, Malacañang,
a black thing lies --
for what is stardust,
billion-year-old carbon,
but some ugly lump of coal?
I take in bits of this, and struggle with others intensely despite really trying.
I think the sonnet is lovely to read, but I get lost in places.
And before I would comment further, I am interested to know if you actually follow religion with genuine belief?
As overall, applying direct meaning and logic, the writing to me at its strongest suggests you don't. Yet so much of it seems to be written as if you do?
Whilst grabbing meaning here and there, without the answer to this question (which you may not wish to answer) it is confusing to me...
Please do try to remember that for serious critique, it is important not to confuse a poem with a diary entry. What the poet does or does not believe is irrelevant/ mod
RBJ
Man differs more from Man, than Man from Beast~ Rochester
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro~ HST
(01-05-2017, 10:21 AM)rollingbrianjones Wrote: I take in bits of this, and struggle with others intensely despite really trying.
I think the sonnet is lovely to read, but I get lost in places.
And before I would comment further, I am interested to know if you actually follow religion with genuine belief?
As overall, applying direct meaning and logic, the writing to me at its strongest suggests you don't. Yet so much of it seems to be written as if you do?
Whilst grabbing meaning here and there, without the answer to this question (which you may not wish to answer) it is confusing to me...
I suppose I do. But I have an....at best interesting, at worst bad-faith, relationship with religion, or at least the church I'm currently a member of (as well as, perhaps, the Church itself), that I never really explore beyond the aesthetic; ultimately, my connection to the God I want is too great a mess of anxiety (of the earthly sort -- I suppose going to a Baptist school removed any anxiety with regards to the afterlife, that being, however synergistic, not really under my control), intellect (in the sense that the church I want to join, I can only at the moment join intellectually, it's much too far away -- as well as the fact that I enjoy using the Faith for writing more than actually practicing it), and contradiction (I suppose here, the best not-really-a-metaphor would be my veneration of the red-haired woman) that I can't really say if tying all those things together, or hidden deep within the center, is something I could call g(G)enuine b(B)elief.
All that said, I don't really know how my actually believing in God (I suppose that's what your question means distilled -- and my answer distilled, though seemingly tangential, is that my relationship with him mirrors that of my relationship with my parents) relates to the piece. But I do sense that the phase I wrote this piece and its sisters in may have been a bit too referential for my own good -- the chief things, I suppose, is that this refers to four poems (that I think the titles and the pieces themselves do a fair, if still over-puzzly, job of revealing), and was written as a response to all the distressing things that happened last November (or rather, my incapacity to respond to them). Thanks for responding to the piece and getting through this convoluted reply!
"Please do try to remember that for serious critique, it is important not to confuse a poem with a diary entry. What the poet does or does not believe is irrelevant/ mod" -
I apologise if any rules broken... but I assure you that my interest in the poet's own belief is not to judge them, but to judge what they have written through a wider comprehension. It's a thoughtful, probing piece. It is difficult to give a serious critique sometimes without an understanding of the poet, and as this was posted in serious critique and I felt compelled to response, I had little choice! I mean, we study a poet's time, life and words- rather than only what they've written. Apologies, go easy on me :'D
Not a convoluted reply- explained pretty well something that to you is seemingly quite convoluted!
I only asked as there was a lot of religious imagery, and I might have read too much into other words/lines in this respect, but I thought I may appreciate or comprehend the piece more with some background. The religious imagery, language, perhaps is a distraction from your actual intended meaning? As I said, I got bits, but was lost through bits- and the bits I was lost in I felt a religious aspect to when trying to understand them, due to the repetitive religious language.
Didn't want to probe too deeply or break rules or cause any offence
RBJ
RBJ
Man differs more from Man, than Man from Beast~ Rochester
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro~ HST
(01-08-2017, 10:30 AM)rollingbrianjones Wrote: "Please do try to remember that for serious critique, it is important not to confuse a poem with a diary entry. What the poet does or does not believe is irrelevant/ mod" -
I apologise if any rules broken... but I assure you that my interest in the poet's own belief is not to judge them, but to judge what they have written through a wider comprehension. It's a thoughtful, probing piece. It is difficult to give a serious critique sometimes without an understanding of the poet, and as this was posted in serious critique and I felt compelled to response, I had little choice! I mean, we study a poet's time, life and words- rather than only what they've written. Apologies, go easy on me :'D
Not a convoluted reply- explained pretty well something that to you is seemingly quite convoluted!
I only asked as there was a lot of religious imagery, and I might have read too much into other words/lines in this respect, but I thought I may appreciate or comprehend the piece more with some background. The religious imagery, language, perhaps is a distraction from your actual intended meaning? As I said, I got bits, but was lost through bits- and the bits I was lost in I felt a religious aspect to when trying to understand them, due to the repetitive religious language.
Didn't want to probe too deeply or break rules or cause any offence
RBJ
Perhaps it would help to explain in greater detail?
(01-03-2017, 12:13 PM)RiverNotch Wrote: World War 3
0. Another Stranger Song
Did Leonard Cohen weep when he heard
what happened here -- what happened there --
the man's so Zen
I don't think he went to heaven.
I don't think he needed God This line seems redundant after the previous.
when he cried out Hallelujah
on nine/eleven --
he cried out of posterity.
It's the Chelsea Hotel
he missed when the bell The rhyme seems a little out of place, maybe it would work better if it was in the middle of a line, so it seems incidental.
tolled for him, when he sank
deep into Abraham's bosom --
2. Reply to a Postcard
How could you
walking dead on red slaver dew
still smell blue
when that cold infernal breath "red slaver dew" and"cold infernal breath" strike me as a little wordy.
you call a taut string death
snaps at Jew
and laughs?
Neck and neck,
some greater horror waits for me,
I'm sure. Shot in the head, at least you
had a Fanni and her fanny too
to comfort you -- while I,
I'm far too young. I like this "while I, I'm far too young" a lot - I can hear someone saying it.
1. Duino Castle
He grasped and let go, chose and achieved, but you,
you grasped and gave, held on and stole
some minute portion of the glory for yourself,
not caring about the Other. Distant, all you did
was fear, or weep, or wave with cleverness --
all we did. But hearing again God's call I like the "all we did" for the same reasons as the "while I" bit.
and wrestling with his angel, now I see: there are the men
who do the deeds, and then there are the men
who tell them. Like you, I shan't sing fact
when the heroes are revealed, when these ravening rivers
of righteous men and clowns are drowned in gas: I like the "ravening rivers", I think the alliteration of "righteous" is a little too much, though.
distant, I will paint the picture of another Samson
tearing down the pillars of Satan's tomb
then show it as truth to the rising dead.
3. Woodstock in Taguig
Tell me when it's time to march --
I will not march.
Show me what you're fighting for --
I will not march.
Give me your thoughts, give me your feelings --
I'll understand, and will not march.
Feel me with hope, teach me with love --
all the more, I will not march.
Threaten me with the doom of an age --
I will not march.
Witness this: on the road to Yasgur's farm,
Capitol Hill, Malacañang,
a black thing lies --
for what is stardust,
billion-year-old carbon,
but some ugly lump of coal? I like # 3, the spirit of woodstock is (in my mind) ironically opposed such self-indulgent displays as woodstock. I also really like the song (particuarly CSNY's cover), so that helps.
Thanks for the feedback! Generally agreed -- and so the edits in the first post. But I'm not too sure about the suggested edit to stanza 2 -- wouldn't that compress the "-en" rhyme too much?
