NATURE PLUS

[zorcas]

 
No matter how much nature thrills
iwith a host of golden daffodils,
or a poet’s being can subtly seize
the loveliness of stately trees,
or the scent of clematis, the smell of clover, THIS POEM HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN
when at last our nature walk is over,
hearing the unseen bird’s last trill,
then hearing life’s far greater thrill
that, against nature’s best
is often our choice:
the friendly sound of a human voice.

[just mercedes]

 
No matter how much nature thrills  'thrills' is a very bland word, almost cliche - needs something stronger
with a host of golden daffodils, cliche
or a poet’s being can subtly seize Very clunky construction - 'subtly seize' is meaningless
the loveliness of stately trees, loveliness is an abstract term, not something that can be seized
or the scent of clematis, the smell of clover, This run-on sentence needs attention. Perhaps divide the sentence.
when at last our nature walk is over, 'nature walk' is lazy vocabulary
hearing the unseen bird’s last trill, overload of adverbs and adjectives approaches
then hearing life’s far greater thrill second time you've used 'thrill' in this short piece. 
that, against nature’s best grammar needs attention, the meaning is unclear and convoluted
is often our choice I don't think you're speaking for anyone else here - maybe 'my choice'?
the friendly sound of a human voice. 

Your poem doesn't bring anything new to me, no new ways of looking at nature, or at human behaviour - it feels tired, banal in word choice and Hallmark in sentiment. This is probably because I don't like poems that lecture me. I think you need to find a way to convey your thoughts poetically. Maybe play with the contrast of human voice and the sound of birds. The smells mentioned, although a welcome sensory hook, don't build on your argument and seem an arbitrary inclusion. 'stately trees' doesn't give your reader much at all. Perhaps you could identify the tree - after all, you're on a nature walk. I also think you limit yourself unnecessarily, using rhyme.

[zorcas]

 
No matter how much nature thrills  'thrills' is a very bland word, almost cliche - needs something stronger
with a host of golden daffodils, cliche
or a poet’s being can subtly seize Very clunky construction - 'subtly seize' is meaningless
the loveliness of stately trees, loveliness is an abstract term, not something that can be seized
or the scent of clematis, the smell of clover, This run-on sentence needs attention. Perhaps divide the sentence.
when at last our nature walk is over, 'nature walk' is lazy vocabulary
hearing the unseen bird’s last trill, overload of adverbs and adjectives approaches
then hearing life’s far greater thrill second time you've used 'thrill' in this short piece. 
that, against nature’s best grammar needs attention, the meaning is unclear and convoluted
is often our choice I don't think you're speaking for anyone else here - maybe 'my choice'?
the friendly sound of a human voice. 

Your poem doesn't bring anything new to me, no new ways of looking at nature, or at human behaviour - it feels tired, banal in word choice and Hallmark in sentiment. This is probably because I don't like poems that lecture me. I think you need to find a way to convey your thoughts poetically. Maybe play with the contrast of human voice and the sound of birds. The smells mentioned, although a welcome sensory hook, don't build on your argument and seem an arbitrary inclusion. 'stately trees' doesn't give your reader much at all. Perhaps you could identify the tree - after all, you're on a nature walk. I also think you limit yourself unnecessarily, using rhyme.

Good points.  Trying to learn exactly what "poetic" means, since the definition of using words whose meanings are translated by the reader differs from poems in which words mean what they say, apparently called "realistic". Is this latter form out? As for rhyme. love it and am working on sonnet forms as a side line.

[CRNDLSM]

Hi zorcas! I'm sure any suggestions I make are a matter of taste.  But I am a big fan of rhyme as well.

 
No matter how much nature thrills first line sets the mood and rhthym
with a host of golden daffodils, id rewrite one of these first two to match each other rhythmically since they share the rhyme too.  Probly the first one since it's less thrilling, and I think you say thrill later.  Lots of other Rhymes you could substitute.
or a poet’s being can subtly seize
the loveliness of stately trees,these two lines work for me rhythmically, although loveliness doesn't seem to match stately with a generic 'poet' the subject
or the scent of clematis, the smell of clover,
when at last our nature walk is over,I've personally been tempted to use these Rhymes but crimson and clover killed it for me.  I like how you address specific smells, I don't know clematis and appreciate wanting to look it up.  I think nature walk is a little too obvious, maybe enhance more surrounding imagery.
hearing the unseen bird’s last trill,I see its the last because the walk is over
then hearing life’s far greater thrillbut you lose me here, particularly with repeating thrill.
that, against nature’s best
is often our choice:I think it's a good idea to cut the lines short here to address your final sentiment, but the sentence 'against nature's best is often our choice' is too hard to hold it together structurally
the friendly sound of a human voice.I think choice and voice are overused Rhymes as well, not to deter from your intentions, I also can't say the friendly sound is 'thrilling'

I think it's appropriately titled and has potential to be universally appreciated, but I think each sentence could have more impact with sone adjustment.  Thanks for sharing!

[zorcas]

Thanks for the review. Shall put the poem into the operating room as see what can be done along your suggested lines

[Achebe]

 
No matter how much nature thrills
with a host of golden daffodils, .... the allusion feels like parody, maybe because it's an entire line
or a poet’s being can subtly seize .... 'subtly seize' reads like pointless alliteration to me. The 'subtly' sounds like meter filler 

the loveliness of stately trees, ..... 'lovely', 'stately' - all bland, tired adjectives 
or the scent of clematis, the smell of clover, ... scent of clematis is original, at least to me. It's he only bit I like in the poem 

when at last our nature walk is over, .... metre filler. Conversational. Boring.
hearing the unseen bird’s last trill, .... specifying a type of  bird can improve his line
then hearing life’s far greater thrill .... the rest is both prosaic and preachy 
that, against nature’s best
is often our choice:
the friendly sound of a human voice.

The combination of iambic tetrameter, couplet form, and end stoped lines doesn't work so well. It's hard not to sound cliched and staccato as a result, particularly because all perfect rhymes in rhyme poor English have been done to death.

A discussion thread has been opened in case anyone else want to voice their opinion on perfect rhyme. ella

[zorcas]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, but there is a question: the poem was deliberately written to be old fashioned so what's important to me is does it hang together and are tone and style consistent?  One critic evinced a dislike for being lectured to. Wouldn't that shut out a great number of poems by those did and do lecture?

[billy]

in answer to your last post. old fashion doesn't have to be cliche. it's good to see anyone trying to write any kind of poetry, you more or less intimate rhyme isn't your thing. but isn't that the beauty of a workshop. you can improve on any kind of poetry that isn't strong in your quiver.
to the poem.

at present the poem is weakened by it's lack of imagery. the language feels too passive and slightly pleasant. it needs lifting in an original way. have a google of the lonely as a cloud poem. finally and i'm sure others will mention things i haven't. meter often goes well with rhyme as usual there are examples to the rule.

 
No matter how much nature thrills make the first couple of lines garb the reader,
with a host of golden daffodils, as far as daffodils go this is the greatest cliche of all, see w wordsworth's poem "lonely as a cloud.
or a poet’s being can subtly seize
the loveliness of stately trees,
or the scent of clematis, the smell of clover, a good technique often spoke of is "show don't tell" describe the scent; how did the clover smell; like butter, spring birch? the reader will be more inclined to get into the poem if they're invited with imagery.
when at last our nature walk is over,
hearing the unseen bird’s last trill,
then hearing life’s far greater thrill thrill/thrills use it once unless it's a refrain or chorus or emphasis.
that, against nature’s best
is often our choice:
the friendly sound of a human voice.

[zorcas]

in answer to your last post. old fashion doesn't have to be cliche. it's good to see anyone trying to write any kind of poetry, you more or less intimate rhyme isn't your thing. but isn't that the beauty of a workshop. you can improve on any kind of poetry that isn't strong in your quiver.
to the poem.

at present the poem is weakened by it's lack of imagery. the language feels too passive and slightly pleasant. it needs lifting in an original way. have a google of the lonely as a cloud poem. finally and i'm sure others will mention things i haven't. meter often goes well with rhyme as usual there are examples to the rule.

 
No matter how much nature thrills make the first couple of lines garb the reader,
with a host of golden daffodils, as far as daffodils go this is the greatest cliche of all, see w wordsworth's poem "lonely as a cloud.
or a poet’s being can subtly seize
the loveliness of stately trees,
or the scent of clematis, the smell of clover, a good technique often spoke of is "show don't tell"  describe the scent; how did the clover smell; like butter, spring birch? the reader will be more inclined to get into the poem if they're invited with imagery.
when at last our nature walk is over,
hearing the unseen bird’s last trill,
then hearing life’s far greater thrill thrill/thrills use it once unless it's a refrain or chorus or emphasis.
that, against nature’s best
is often our choice:
the friendly sound of a human voice.

Have managed to upgrade a classic poem, bringing it into the modern age:"I think that I shall never see
                                                                                                                   a poem as lovely as, Joyce, my tree."

[rollingbrianjones]

I assume the Wordsworth reference at the start is obviously deliberate.  Which to me exonerates the first two lines from just about all criticism seen above, I feel quite a few ppl miss your point. Wordsworth's nature was sublime, yet some human words can defeat it all in an instant.

The simple message is conveyed, well, simply. I think you can give nature a bit more presence,  appreciation and beauty in the words you choose throughout. The more beautiful your nature is described to be, the more impact your final notion has. Work on aggrandising nature's beauty, perhaps aesthetically rather than some stately trees and smells.

I'd post ideas if not using a mobile phone...not that I feel you'd need them really. You just need to strengthen nature to give your end message the power it deserves. Not sure if this poem was written with anyone in mind but again a personal human voice may strengthen ending.

Also totally agree with all.on repetition of thrilled.... I'm not a fan of it to start with but twice!

Nothing wrong with rhyme either- just try to make them less obvious and play around a bit. It is an art form after all.

[zorcas]

Aha! You blend technique with effect in your analysis which be precisely what's needed.

[newmystic]

 
No matter how much nature thrills
with a host of golden daffodils,
or a poet’s being can subtly seize
the loveliness of stately trees,
or the scent of clematis, the smell of clover,
when at last our nature walk is over,
hearing the unseen bird’s last trill,
then hearing life’s far greater thrill
that, against nature’s best
is often our choice:
the friendly sound of a human voice.

I thought it was innocently delightful, like something I might imagine Anne Shirley reading as she's walking through a forest. however, it needs something meatier. it feels lacking in substance.

I heard that after certain fires in California that flower seeds that have lay dormant for decades or centuries even suddenly grow, revealing flowers that we haven't seen in a long time. this to me represents a more meaty symbol of nature "thrilling me" than just a plain old field of golden daffodils. if I were to focus on that theme, it might unpack something more of substance for the poem. it would make me think of a phoenix rising from the ash, of resurrection, of a butterfly emerging from a caterpillar. I would try to find a typology to tie this poem to...perhaps something religious, but doesn't have to be. I love typology. but also to keep it simple, fresh, innocent. it reminds me of Emily Dickinson. I actually quite like it the way it is, but it could be weightier. Dickinson was very weighty in her poems. this feels more romantic than weighty.

Matthew

[zorcas]

Yet another very useful examination of substance leading to the realization that the present poem is like a starter kit from which a better finished, better product could flow. Thus, will scratch t he old one and start anew. Thanks a bunch for this.