Bob Dylan Nobel Prize & Johnny Cash in The New Yorker

[shemthepenman]

Thanks. I'm a shit writer, of course, but I hope I'll never have to write drivel such as the excerpt below. If the above is what you think is great poetry, then I rest my case.
Wait...I'm now getting the feeling that you're having me on. If so, then it's masterful. If not, then...well, let's just say that Dylan should refuse the Nobel and save the world some embarrassment 

Lights flicker from the opposite loft
In this room the heat pipes just cough
The country music station plays soft
But there's nothing really nothing to turn off

and if we're looking for cringe how about

Impossible angel

Beer and cigarettes
and you, your languid locks,
are always in my world of drunken walks
through Barbican and Bishopsgate,
in the moonbeam shallows
of walls spattered with poetry.

Thursday nights your longing is a sea
crossing through hours of drunkenness.
Mindful glances in the mermaid shadows
turn not to me.

Impossible angel
that runs not to me.

But runs to the deep sea's emptiness
in the white frothed wave that follows
the moon's pale lamp of loneliness
that burns not for me.

your languid locks :/ yep maybe that is why you are a shit poet, because you have no taste or concept of poetry. just saying. i won't add the obligatory laughing man emoticon. . . you know, it's like "i don;t really have to say anything intelligent, i'll jjust pretend i've said stated a universal truth. Dylan got the nobel prize for literature, i/m sure you know what's best though. they should have you on the panel of judges.

[Lizzie]

"Just like a woman"

Nobody feels any pain
Tonight as I stand inside the rain
Ev'rybody knows
That Baby's got new clothes
But lately I see her ribbons and her bows
Have fallen from her curls
She takes just like a woman, yes she does
She makes love just like a woman, yes she does
And she aches just like a woman
But she breaks just like a little girl.

Ha, I actually like that song. Not because it's perfect, but because I like the concept.

[Achebe]

Thanks. I'm a shit writer, of course, but I hope I'll never have to write drivel such as the excerpt below. If the above is what you think is great poetry, then I rest my case.
Wait...I'm now getting the feeling that you're having me on. If so, then it's masterful. If not, then...well, let's just say that Dylan should refuse the Nobel and save the world some embarrassment 

Lights flicker from the opposite loft
In this room the heat pipes just cough
The country music station plays soft
But there's nothing really nothing to turn off

and if we're looking for cringe how about

Impossible angel

Beer and cigarettes
and you, your languid locks,
are always in my world of drunken walks
through Barbican and Bishopsgate,
in the moonbeam shallows
of walls spattered with poetry.

Thursday nights your longing is a sea
crossing through hours of drunkenness.
Mindful glances in the mermaid shadows
turn not to me.

Impossible angel
that runs not to me.

But runs to the deep sea's emptiness
in the white frothed wave that follows
the moon's pale lamp of loneliness
that burns not for me.

At least my rhymes have 3 syllables 
Dylan's sound like they were written by the Turkana boy (not to mock the proto-humanoids)
And hey, nobody's offering me the Nobel prize, but maybe now they should

[Todd]

Never underestimate the power of the handicapped.

[Achebe]

Never underestimate the power of the handicapped.

Yeah, that was a dicky thing to do, so I changed it.

[shemthepenman]

Never underestimate the power of the handicapped.

Yeah, that was a dicky thing to do, so I changed it.

No, yours sounds like someone who can't write. But as long as you think you can, all's well. Ignorance is bliss, so I've heard.

[Todd]

Never underestimate the power of the handicapped.

Yeah, that was a dicky thing to do, so I changed it.

I speak for my people and quote In Living Color in self mockery and because I find it funny.

[Achebe]

Ignorance is bliss.

Does explain your current state of mind, doesn't it? 

Moving back to the topic, and away from fake hippie prophets, it is interesting to note that Dylan was awarded the Nobel for 'new poetic expressions', whatever that means. 
Todd, the Nobel is for poetry as well as prose, surely. A number of poets have won the Nobel.
But not songwriting, i.e if songs are to be considered, it would be the lyrics alone (not that Dylan's songs were great in the music department either...)

[shemthepenman]

[Achebe]

your languid locks :/ yep maybe that is why you are a shit poet, because you have no taste or concept of poetry. just saying. i won't add the obligatory laughing man emoticon. . . you know, it's like "i don;t really have to say anything intelligent, i'll jjust pretend i've said stated a universal truth. Dylan got the nobel prize for literature, i/m sure you know what's best though. they should have you on the panel of judges.

Aha - I didn't see this cute little footnote below earlier. You think I'm a shit poet - good for you.
Moving on to your point about the panel of judges - a silly attempt to shut down debate, if somewhat predictable - "Allah is stronger than Zeus because my daddy says so!!". 
No laughing man this time - you're being a bad boy.

[RiverNotch]

Ignorance is bliss.

Does explain your current state of mind, doesn't it?  

Moving back to the topic, and away from fake hippie prophets, it is interesting to note that Dylan was awarded the Nobel for 'new poetic expressions', whatever that means. 
Todd, the Nobel is for poetry as well as prose, surely. A number of poets have won the Nobel.
But not songwriting, i.e if songs are to be considered, it would be the lyrics alone (not that Dylan's songs were great in the music department either...)

you know, afaik much of ancient greek poetry (the dramas and lyric poetry especially, but perhaps also the epics), and ginsberg once thought (once, since now he's passed) blake's songs of innocence and of experience were literal songs, first (not to mention all of the poems and epics that survive for thr most part only in oral tradition, which is usually sung or cantillated, ie spoke-sung). only relatively recently is this trend of dividing songs and poetry -- all those Psalms and ballads would not even be read by most of their audience! -- and even then, it's more a symbol of either cultural elitism or misapplied commercialization than anything else. ie, you seem to be playing into the lie, dude.

[Todd]

Well I didn't think they even gave the award for poetry. I was misled by the title of the award.

[shemthepenman]

your languid locks :/ yep maybe that is why you are a shit poet, because you have no taste or concept of poetry. just saying. i won't add the obligatory laughing man emoticon. . . you know, it's like "i don;t really have to say anything intelligent, i'll jjust pretend i've said stated a universal truth. Dylan got the nobel prize for literature, i/m sure you know what's best though. they should have you on the panel of judges.

Aha - I didn't see this cute little footnote below earlier. You think I'm a shit poet - good for you.
Moving on to your point about the panel of judges - a silly attempt to shut down debate, if somewhat predictable - "Allah is stronger than Zeus because my daddy says so!!". 
No laughing man this time - you're being a bad boy.

you are a fool. it is funny. everyone point and laugh. it will make you feel better. you have not made any argument other than   'i don't like Dylan'. if you want to debate it, i'll be happy to. not tonight, though. i have no time for intellectually annihilating you right now. i have girls to fuck and whisky and morphine to mix. but, tomorrow.

just a ps. i don;t think Dylan is the greatest thing since sliced bred, nor even the best lyricist. . . but your ridicule of him is telling. it tells me you haven't got a fucking clue. and if you want me to continuously shred your shit poems apart as an indication of how you haven't a fucking clue what you're talking about. . . carry on.

benzos kicking in good night.

[Achebe]

Ignorance is bliss.

Does explain your current state of mind, doesn't it?  

Moving back to the topic, and away from fake hippie prophets, it is interesting to note that Dylan was awarded the Nobel for 'new poetic expressions', whatever that means. 
Todd, the Nobel is for poetry as well as prose, surely. A number of poets have won the Nobel.
But not songwriting, i.e if songs are to be considered, it would be the lyrics alone (not that Dylan's songs were great in the music department either...)

you know, afaik much of ancient greek poetry (the dramas and lyric poetry especially, but perhaps also the epics), and ginsberg once thought (once, since now he's passed) blake's songs of innocence and of experience were literal songs, first (not to mention all of the poems and epics that survive for thr most part only in oral tradition, which is usually sung or cantillated, ie spoke-sung). only relatively recently is this trend of dividing songs and poetry -- all those Psalms and ballads would not even be read by most of their audience! -- and even then, it's more a symbol of either cultural elitism or misapplied commercialization than anything else. ie, you seem to be playing into the lie, dude.

Thank you. I'm not playing into any lie. You are missing the point here.

Yes, lyrics were originally meant to be a sung to a lyre. 
Epic poetry was meant to be recited.
Quranic surahs are 'sung' - eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WvHMNuhH3Y
Ghazals are commonly set to music.
Benjamin Britten's War Requiem was, as far as I know, arranged on Wilfred Owen's poems.

The point is not that poems can't be songs. They can and have always been, sung along to.

However, the examples above are those of works that can stand on their own, i.e. as songs without the music.
A ghalib Ghazal is top notch whether heard with or without the music.
You don't need music to read Blake
You can read Milton in your head

The Nobel for literature is for literature, not music. If the combined effect of the music and the writing is more than the sum of its parts, fantastic.
It's hard for you to write something like 'The Sick Rose', but not 'Tambourine Man'.

---

your languid locks :/ yep maybe that is why you are a shit poet, because you have no taste or concept of poetry. just saying. i won't add the obligatory laughing man emoticon. . . you know, it's like "i don;t really have to say anything intelligent, i'll jjust pretend i've said stated a universal truth. Dylan got the nobel prize for literature, i/m sure you know what's best though. they should have you on the panel of judges.

Aha - I didn't see this cute little footnote below earlier. You think I'm a shit poet - good for you.
Moving on to your point about the panel of judges - a silly attempt to shut down debate, if somewhat predictable - "Allah is stronger than Zeus because my daddy says so!!". 
No laughing man this time - you're being a bad boy.

you are a fool. it is funny. everyone point and laugh. it will make you feel better. you have not made any argument other than   'i don't like Dylan'. if you want to debate it, i'll be happy to. not tonight, though. i have no time for intellectually annihilating you right now. i have girls to fuck and whisky and morphine to mix. but, tomorrow.

just a ps. i don;t think Dylan is the greatest thing since sliced bred, nor even the best lyricist. . . but your ridicule of him is telling. it tells me you haven't got a fucking clue. and if you want me to continuously shred your shit poems apart as an indication of how you haven't a fucking clue what you're talking about. . . carry on.

benzos kicking in good night.

I have given you examples of bad writing from your grand panjandrum of poetry, Dylan, and invited you to show me how they were not shite. In response, you took your knickers off and ran down Oxford Street.
You haven't shredded my poems, shit or otherwise (you're welcome to carry on in that endeavour). Though I admire your choice of verb. 
Good night. Don't get your panties in a knot 

[Todd]

I love Sinclair Lewis. He won one of these things. I don't like everything he wrote--just most of it. Now even the stories I'm not as fond of are better than anything I could write. Thankfully, I'm not the bar for the Nobel committee. I'm waiting now for the Paul Simon induction.

[billy]

all righty then. passionate is good but try not to start a flame fest.

[just mercedes]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BLgm2abDOeX/

[Brownlie]

Poetry should be fun or possibly it should be super depressing to spur social movements. Shakespeare, or whatever we call Shakespeare, is a genius (however he uses early modern language and can be a little bit of a chore to follow now). ahem, "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Plus Macbeth's funny as hell always trippin out on hemlock, putananny or paranoia or whatever.

Bob Dylan's pretty good. Saw some Woodstock footage that was pretty cool. I mean whoa, that shit was heavy. Other stuff I've read/heard seems pretty good as well.

Not sure about the rationale they gave behind nominating him. Why didn't they just say they liked him,  a lot of people enjoy his stuff, he's got some depth to his lyrics, and they're sick of sounding snoby and out of touch. 

Of course poetry is like music. duh! why in the world would you have stresses and what not if you didn't care about the sound of it.

Homer's stuff is all in iambic (actually dactylic)  hexameter, and he wrote freakin epics!!! (way different than folk songs). 

Plus maybe his stuff explores similar romantic themes as Yeats or Keats or whatever, and that's why scholars compared him to them. I mean the way I've read about it, they were saying stuff like, oh it's ok he got the award because he's as good as Yeats or Keats. For the love of yo yo ma can I get a pot smokin' angel and some black Sabbath in there (OK, they're probably not as deep as Dylan, but come on. Pot smoking angels on the album cover. Milton would bust a nut).

[Achebe]

Poetry should be fun or possibly it should be super depressing to spur social movements. Shakespeare, or whatever we call Shakespeare, is a genius (however he uses early modern language and can be a little bit of a chore to follow now). ahem, "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Plus Macbeth's funny as hell always trippin out on hemlock, putananny or paranoia or whatever.

Bob Dylan's pretty good. Saw some Woodstock footage that was pretty cool. I mean whoa, that shit was heavy. Other stuff I've read/heard seems pretty good as well.

Not sure about the rationale they gave behind nominating him. Why didn't they just say they liked him,  a lot of people enjoy his stuff, he's got some depth to his lyrics, and they're sick of sounding snoby and out of touch. 

Of course poetry is like music. duh! why in the world would you have stresses and what not if you didn't care about the sound of it.

Homer's stuff is all in iambic hexameter, and he wrote freakin epics!!! (way different than folk songs). 

Plus maybe his stuff explores similar romantic themes as Yeats or Keats or whatever, and that's why scholars compared him to them. I mean the way I've read about it, they were saying stuff like, oh it's ok he got the award because he's as good as Yeats or Keats. For the love of yo yo ma can I get a pot smokin' angel and some black Sabbath in there (OK, they're probably not as deep as Dylan, but come on. Pot smoking angels on the album cover. Milton would bust a nut).

I think if you look at the original intent of Alfred Nobel, the prize was meant to reward those who have contributed directly to the betterment of humanity. That's why there's no Nobel for math - it's seen as too abstract (not because Nobel's wife ran away with a mathematician...). While economics wasn't mentioned in Nobel's will, it was added later (but is not technically  still called a 'Nobel' prize) with the argument that economic policy has a huge impact on people's lives.
So seen that way, literature that has a positive impact on people's lives deserves the Nobel, regardless of its technical merits. Dylan's poetry is not technically credible, but his songs have influenced a generation of people in the Anglosphere (primarily America and the UK). However, a better choice would have been the Peace prize, in my view.

[Brownlie]

Poetry should be fun or possibly it should be super depressing to spur social movements. Shakespeare, or whatever we call Shakespeare, is a genius (however he uses early modern language and can be a little bit of a chore to follow now). ahem, "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Plus Macbeth's funny as hell always trippin out on hemlock, putananny or paranoia or whatever.

Bob Dylan's pretty good. Saw some Woodstock footage that was pretty cool. I mean whoa, that shit was heavy. Other stuff I've read/heard seems pretty good as well.

Not sure about the rationale they gave behind nominating him. Why didn't they just say they liked him,  a lot of people enjoy his stuff, he's got some depth to his lyrics, and they're sick of sounding snoby and out of touch. 

Of course poetry is like music. duh! why in the world would you have stresses and what not if you didn't care about the sound of it.

Homer's stuff is all in iambic hexameter, and he wrote freakin epics!!! (way different than folk songs). 

Plus maybe his stuff explores similar romantic themes as Yeats or Keats or whatever, and that's why scholars compared him to them. I mean the way I've read about it, they were saying stuff like, oh it's ok he got the award because he's as good as Yeats or Keats. For the love of yo yo ma can I get a pot smokin' angel and some black Sabbath in there (OK, they're probably not as deep as Dylan, but come on. Pot smoking angels on the album cover. Milton would bust a nut).

I think if you look at the original intent of Alfred Nobel, the prize was meant to reward those who have contributed directly to the betterment of humanity. That's why there's no Nobel for math - it's seen as too abstract (not because Nobel's wife ran away with a mathematician...). While economics wasn't mentioned in Nobel's will, it was added later (but is not technically  still called a 'Nobel' prize) with the argument that economic policy has a huge impact on people's lives.
So seen that way, literature that has a positive impact on people's lives deserves the Nobel, regardless of its technical merits. Dylan's poetry is not technically credible, but his songs have influenced a generation of people in the Anglosphere (primarily America and the UK). However, a better choice would have been the Peace prize, in my view.

Well, the more I think of it, the Nobel prize just seems stupid. I think it comes with crown jewels or rupees or something. Should be converted to a nonprofit that gives out grants.

What the hell does literature even mean? Why don't they just call it writing or something if they want to break down hierarchies?