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I hold your gaze firm
as a handshake and say 'how may I help,'
but I'm not asking.
You can choose only the me you want to see—
soft spoken, hands in pockets,
or joking and slapping thighs.
You can choose my voice: your daughter, your sister,
your best friend forever.
That's my favorite shirt!
Modal has effortless weight. It requires
a different bra, though. May I ask your name?
I'll go get my measuring
tape because I'm not really asking.
I notice
the pants you're wearing—
their stitching, leg shape, drape—
to make you wonder
if everyone sees you in this much detail.
You become self-conscious, wanting to please.
Make me proud!
Buy the name brand jeans with the rhinestones on the ass.
They offer control on the inside.
Do you need new panties? Something lacy!
Men will be watching, and you don't want to be embarrassed
to reveal something ugly.
I'm sure your husband
would love the matching bustier.
You don't have a husband? Buy the bustier!
Four hundred thirty-three dollars, ten cents—
it's refreshing to lose the pretense.
You ask for my name with a grateful smile
and this is my final lie.
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I love how this poems lets consumerism dressing up self loathing, and in a shopping interaction. Lie and falsehood layer over one another connecting character, content, and theme.
(07-16-2016, 03:39 PM)lizziep Wrote: I hold your gaze firm
as a handshake and say 'how may I help,'
but I'm not asking. the first pretense as you say later, nice lines
You can only choose the me you want to see—might 'only' come first, as only the shopper can choose (e.g. "Only you can . . .)
soft spoken, hands in pockets,
or joking and slapping thighs.
You can choose my voice: your daughter, your sister,
your best friend forever. again layering on the pretense; we are the projections of others, (in their minds at least); i like it
That's my favorite shirt!
Modal has effortless weight. It requires should these lines be in quotation marks?
a different bra, though. May I ask your name? I love how each interaction is an excuse to buy something else, then something else
I'll go get my measuring
tape because I'm not really asking. perhaps they don't need quotation marks if you're not really asking
I notice
the pants you're wearing—
their stitching, leg shape, drape—
to make you wonder
if everyone sees you in this much detail. the success of a judgmental salesperson, wow
You become self-conscious, wanting to please. the meaning of these lines is evident via the poems imagery. cut them?
Make me proud! is pride the emotion floating between these characters?
Buy the name brand jeans with the rhinestones on the ass.
They offer control on the inside. nice ambiguity working here
Do you need new panties? Something lacy!
Men will be watching, and you don't want to be embarrassed
to reveal something ugly.
I'm sure your husband
would love the matching bustier.
You don't have a husband? Buy the bustier! my favorite line, damned if you do or don't
Four hundred thirty-three dollars, ten cents—
it's refreshing to lose the pretense. and the only honest part of the interaction comes
You ask for my name with a grateful smile
and this is my final lie. strong closing lines, looping back to all the pretense
I'm sorry if most my comments are in praise. There's a lot working very well here. One thought is one the quotation marks. At times the narrator speaks to the shopper directly, at other times the lines instead seem to suggest the real meaning behind a sales interaction. How might quotation marks/italics/something else be used to distinguish these two very different kinds of dialogue in the poem?
Again, just a thought. Maybe you want to let them blend together, highlighting the absurdity of the interaction.
Thanks for sharing! Fun read!
Thanks to this Forum
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Oh wow! I liked this one a lot. Anyone who has worked in sales or waited tables will find this easy to relate to. It had me recalling times when I felt like a prostitute sucking up to a table for tips. The title was interesting enough to pull me in, but I wonder if you might expand it a little so the reader moves into your first lines with a little more understanding of where this is going and why the two people are meeting with a gaze. I enjoyed the flow of the poem. It moved from moment to moment nicely, and your breaks were interesting without being disruptive. Below are some line by line thoughts:
(07-16-2016, 03:39 PM)lizziep Wrote: I hold your gaze firm
as a handshake and say 'how may I help,' - of course the gaze as firm as a handshake is a bit cliche, but it works nicely here, because it sets the stage of greeting.
but I'm not asking.
You can only choose the me you want to see— Perhaps it is not that the person can only choose, but rather you proffer yourself to be what they want to see? I would rework this and find a stronger phrasing, because it is also a bit cliche and seems out of sync with the direction your poem goes in S4.
soft spoken, hands in pockets,
or joking and slapping thighs. Nice. It's good that you used demonstrative hand gestures in both lines to create [b]cohesion and imagery.[/b]
You can choose my voice: your daughter, your sister,
your best friend forever. the repetition of "your" serves you well here. The flow builds momentum.
That's my favorite shirt!
Modal has effortless weight. It requires
a different bra, though. May I ask your name?
I'll go get my measuring
tape because I'm not really asking. Drop a comma after because.
I notice
the pants you're wearing—
their stitching, leg shape, drape—
to make you wonder
if everyone sees you in this much detail.
You become self-conscious, wanting to please. I wanted to see something other than "become" here. Maybe there is this idea that the self consciousness is growing or being fed, or leavening? Does that make sense? To just say "become" sells your poem short. Also, maybe end the line with a semicolon, so the next line stays connected. In previous stanzas you move from your perspective to the shoppers perspective alternatively. But this stanza is all from the first person.
Make me proud!
Buy the name brand jeans with the rhinestones on the ass.
They offer control on the inside. Nice.
Do you need new panties? Something lacy!
Men will be watching, and you don't want to be embarrassed
to reveal something ugly.
I'm sure your husband
would love the matching bustier.
You don't have a husband? Buy the bustier! The movement from stanza to stanza was great here, and moved with the quickness consistent with the theme.
Four hundred thirty-three dollars, ten cents—
it's refreshing to lose the pretense. The rhyme here is great, because it signifies a shift of poetic device just as the narrator shifts from pretense. I liked that.
You ask for my name with a grateful smile
and this is my final lie. Your ending is very strong. Good stuff.
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(07-16-2016, 03:39 PM)lizziep Wrote: I hold your gaze firm
as a handshake and say 'how may I help,' nice simile gaze / handshake
but I'm not asking.
You can choose only the me you want to see— Shades of Aqua. I'd prefer - 'choose the me you want to see', or 'choose the me you want' (avoids me / see), dropping the 'only'
soft spoken, hands in pockets, 'soft spoken' is prosaic
or joking and slapping thighs.
You can choose my voice: your daughter, your sister, ....'choose' yet again? 'your' can be deleted
your best friend forever. can delete 'your' and replace with 'or'
That's my favorite shirt!
Modal has effortless weight. It requires don't know what 'Modal' is, unless you mean 'voice modal', in which case I don't get the literal meaning, but what you're trying to say is clear enough.
a different bra, though. May I ask your name?
I'll go get my measuring
tape because I'm not really asking.
I notice
the pants you're wearing—
their stitching, leg shape, drape—
to make you wonder
if everyone sees you in this much detail.
You become self-conscious, wanting to please.
Make me proud!
Buy the name brand jeans with the rhinestones on the ass.
They offer control on the inside.
Do you need new panties? Something lacy!
Men will be watching, and you don't want to be embarrassed
to reveal something ugly.
I'm sure your husband
would love the matching bustier.
You don't have a husband? Buy the bustier!
Four hundred thirty-three dollars, ten cents—
it's refreshing to lose the pretense.
You ask for my name with a grateful smile
and this is my final lie.
Hi Lizziep - nice job. But I while I think it reads nicely as a monologue and would be great read aloud, the lines are not particularly memorable.
Of course, not every poem has to do that. Sometimes it's okay to write a piece for the moment.
Another problem is that the speaker comes across as quite one dimensional and uninteresting.
Finally, the couplet form looks arbitrary to me. Eg. 'your husband / would love'
~ I think I just quoted myself - Achebe
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(07-16-2016, 03:39 PM)lizziep Wrote: I hold your gaze firm
as a handshake and say 'how may I help,' Although the shorter start does make for a punchier poem, its separation from "as a handshake" still, I think, doesn't hold enough meaning to justify making these first two lines a little more jarring. In fact, "as a handshake" feels almost expendable....
but I'm not asking. Well, you are -- even I at my groggiest would notice when a salesperson is being that insincere. But you aren't really, if you catch my drift. (if you didn't, "but I'm not really asking" instead)
You can choose only the me you want to see—
soft spoken, hands in pockets,
or joking and slapping thighs. Something a little off with having two practically united images separated by a comma up top, then another two images now only conjoined-by-conjunction on bottom, as if the writer forgot only her Oxford comma. That is to say, perhaps "soft spoken and hands in pockets / or joking and slapping thighs" instead? Or perhaps a bit too wordy.
You can choose my voice: your daughter, your sister, Would be different enough from the bottom, and extra titillating to this occasional occultist overall , if "your mother, your daughter" instead. Although I get why that isn't already included.
your best friend forever.
That's my favorite shirt!
Modal has effortless weight. It requires I put modal through google and I got bootstrapping. My degree program is finally starting to affect search results!....I think. Is google so personal?
But yeah, modal is a type of textile, yes? The speaker seems to speak in two voices, and though they blend sometimes, it's not enough to justify not separating them -- better to italicize, I think, the actual salestalk, starting with "How may I help [you]?". Of which there may be too much of to make the whole piece pointy enough. I mean, salestalk in general isn't even meant to be interesting, let alone beautiful -- not anymore, anyways.
a different bra, though. May I ask your name?
I'll go get my measuring
tape because I'm not really asking. Why break "measuring tape"? Meaning? A meaning which I think I'm getting -- fluff fluff eyes measuring soul fluff fluff -- but isn't enough to justify such a jarring break.
I notice Way too blah -- at least "Jesus wept" had gravitas.
In fact, the above stanza may be completely expendable -- second line best to move down, first line, considering the I'm not really asking up top, unnecessary. Rather, change "may be" to "is".
the pants you're wearing— I'm a fan of symmetry, so I'm gonna have to ask you to move this em dash down.
their stitching, leg shape, drape—
to make you wonder
if everyone sees you in this much detail. A la "you can choose only the me you want to see" good, these two lines, although for both, I can't help but feel that those exact lines have been done, even when related to the materialism which I believe ultimately birthed them, even as merely midwife. But perhaps not related via poetry, so meh.
Still, though -- better to fill this with more images, meter, etc., if you want this to be really memorable.
You become self-conscious, wanting to please.
Make me proud! And you kill the quiet thoughtfulness of the earlier stanza with two too-direct lines that, again with the earlier stanza, are already pretty much redundant. Best to remove these.
Buy the name brand jeans with the rhinestones on the ass. "Ass" is just too coarse a word.
They offer control on the inside. I'm pretty sure a salesperson wouldn't be this direct in prodding at a person's insecurities.
And so, another two too-direct lines -- kinda starting to feel that the artist peaked earlier, and here is losing the juice -- but at least these ones move the tale along.
Do you need new panties? Something lacy! At this point, too many exclamation points -- one, two, that's enough. To bomb a poem with them: three, four -- and if this poem were shorter, to stuff them so close -- would be to craft a joke. I would go for em dash, but I'm an em dash fanatic.
Men will be watching, and you don't want to be embarrassed Here cleanliness would do you better. "Men will be watching:..."
to reveal something ugly. Plain panties aren't ugly -- to men (and I should know, I'm a man), any panties aren't ugly, as long as they aren't from an old woman, a child, or a blood relative. There's a better word for this.
I'm sure your husband
would love the matching bustier.
You don't have a husband? Buy the bustier! I don't follow the train of thought here. "Need new panties? Buy lace! You are a woman -- especially a married woman. You're a married woman? Buy lace [for exactly the same reason as before, which my second statement just implied only truly applies to married women]!" Shouldn't the last sentence be "Buy it anyway!" And hey, it kinda rhymes with "bustier", too....
Oh, and again, the exclamation point could probably be lost -- another em dash? To recount, that's one line with an exclamation point lost, and two points changed to em dashes, leaving only -- hey, one point! Which does feel like a sudden shortening, but I think it's a good shortening, making that one bit of common (and thus, boring) salestalk, which stands on its own, actually stand out, even humanize the speaker.
Four hundred thirty-three dollars, ten cents— If you go change the earlier point to an em dash, then the em dash here could be changed to period. In fact, the em dash with the former unchanged could be changed to period, too, and it'd still work, bar the fragment unnecessarily developed -- although far better would be to change it to a colon, which works without developing that for this part unnecessary breath.
it's refreshing to lose the pretense. Another thoughtful line, although this time it feels somewhat neutered, compared to "the me you want to see"/"in this much detail" -- either it's the fact that the speaker is now revealing his open secret, which, for such shows, cheapens the trick, or, more likely, "refreshing to lose the pretense" evokes no imagery. Might be better overall to just remove it -- let the speaker's action show she's had her fun.
You ask for my name with a grateful smile
and this is my final lie. Tempted to give a cheap rhyme with "Last, you ask....", but no, although the punchy ending feels like it's here for its own equally cheap sake. Sure, "final lie" feels all like the speaker's giving the last cool, sardonic word, but she really has said enough at this point -- again, this ending just feels cheap. Better to remove this stanza and just let an appropriately changed above do the work.
Overall, fair enough -- kinda reminds me of an equally political piece I recently composed, only instead of angry this goes for sardonic, and really, the issues here aren't as immediate (although surely, as destructive). I mean, I would like this, regardless of the noted bits, if I haven't been lately steeped in Turkey/Nice/Philippine-Drug-War-Gone-Vigilante, plus all the somewhat-past junk concerning the US elections and Brexit, but no, the sting here just makes me think, "Ah, blind bourgeois". Eh -- without those events specifically, I'd feel to write the same as the speaker anyway -- and besides, though I don't like this, doesn't mean this ain't likeable. So again, fair enough.
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Thanks for the crits everybody. I'm still processing them, so I'll be back with reflections in a bit.
Modal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_%28textile%29
RiverNotch: You know, better yet, let's just remove every stanza. *Joking*
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(07-18-2016, 01:34 AM)RiverNotch
[b' Wrote: Overall, fair enough -- kinda reminds me of an equally political piece I recently composed, only instead of angry this goes for sardonic, and really, the issues here aren't as immediate (although surely, as destructive). I mean, I would like this, regardless of the noted bits, if I haven't been lately steeped in Turkey/Nice/Philippine-Drug-War-Gone-Vigilante, plus all the somewhat-past junk concerning the US elections and Brexit, but no, the sting here just makes me think, "Ah, blind bourgeois". Eh -- without those events specifically, I'd feel to write the same as the speaker anyway -- and besides, though I don't like this, doesn't mean this ain't likeable. So again, fair enough.[/b]
So, for now I think I'll say this: yes, it is probably an unimportant topic compared to war, famine, disease. I get it. Yet, I think that this topic has merit. Marketing to women by first creating insecurities and then exploiting them is big business. Multi-billion dollar big business. I've seen it from the inside, and it is insidious.
The things that the saleswoman is saying are not necessarily what she would actually be saying. The speaker is a mishmash of the actual salesperson, the company, the industry, and the regular person who has become part of the machine. Most women who work as saleswomen aren't doing it because they get a kick out of manipulating people, they're just trying to earn a living.
So, to one of Achebe's points, there's a lot of room for character development here. Duly noted.
I think that it's true that this piece will mostly resonate with western women. Not denying that, they just say to write what you know.
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Hi Lizzie, some comments for you.
Interesting interaction.
(07-16-2016, 03:39 PM)lizziep Wrote: I hold your gaze firm
as a handshake and say 'how may I help,'--I like this simile, but I wonder if it's too friendly sounding. This transaction is actually anything but friendly. The question is facetious.
but I'm not asking.--One of the key lines, which you repeat like a sort of refrain. The speaker is not a consultant more someone who is exercising control.
You can choose only the me you want to see— --Again this is a poem about perception (another key theme). There could be a debate on breaking on choose to give the illusion of choice just like you have already provided the illusion of help and the illusion of asking.
soft spoken, hands in pockets,
or joking and slapping thighs.
You can choose my voice: your daughter, your sister,
your best friend forever. --Maybe tighten this: "I can speak as your daughter..."
That's my favorite shirt!
Modal has effortless weight. It requires--I wonder if you want the terse "It requires" or if instead you'd like to couch the observation to subtly poke at insecurities like you do later with the panties.
a different bra, though. May I ask your name?--I don't know if you need this first "May I ask your name?" Possible cut.
I'll go get my measuring--I'm not sure what this break adds. I'm trying to find a layered meaning in measuring and than reading it again as measuring tape and I'm not seeing it.
tape because I'm not really asking. --Like the repetition for theme.
I notice --Again an important line. I began to wonder at this point if the salesperson was actually a full length mirror (though I rejected that).
the pants you're wearing—
their stitching, leg shape, drape—
to make you wonder--I wonder if "wonder if" would be better replaced by "worry that"
if everyone sees you in this much detail.
You become self-conscious, wanting to please.
Make me proud!--This sequence would be better shown by actions that the person takes. Holding in a stomach, straightening shoulders, etc.
Buy the name brand jeans with the rhinestones on the ass.
They offer control on the inside. --This is a great visual line implying that an external purchase will change you and give you a feeling of a broader sense of control than implied here.
Do you need new panties? Something lacy!
Men will be watching, and you don't want to be embarrassed--Maybe end this on with watching. As one of the themes has the observer being changed by those that observe--even in this sale. I think the final phrase could be implied.
to reveal something ugly.--That change would require a small fix here.
I'm sure your husband
would love the matching bustier.
You don't have a husband? Buy the bustier!
Four hundred thirty-three dollars, ten cents—
it's refreshing to lose the pretense.--Nice
You ask for my name with a grateful smile
and this is my final lie.
As always I hope the comments help.
Best,
Todd
The secret of poetry is cruelty.--Jon Anderson
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(07-20-2016, 04:03 AM)Todd Wrote: but I'm not asking.--One of the key lines, which you repeat like a sort of refrain. The speaker is not a consultant more someone who is exercising control.
You can choose only the me you want to see— --Again this is a poem about perception (another key theme). There could be a debate on breaking on choose to give the illusion of choice just like you have already provided the illusion of help and the illusion of asking.
Your crit is more beautiful than the poem
Yes, 'I'm not asking' was originally going to be a proper refrain, but I don't understand how to do things properly yet, so I just repeated it randomly. Deciding to embrace my improper-ness for the time being until I know better.
Thanks for the great read, Todd. Really helpful.
lizziep
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(07-20-2016, 02:59 AM)lizziep Wrote: (07-18-2016, 01:34 AM)RiverNotch
[b' Wrote: Overall, fair enough -- kinda reminds me of an equally political piece I recently composed, only instead of angry this goes for sardonic, and really, the issues here aren't as immediate (although surely, as destructive). I mean, I would like this, regardless of the noted bits, if I haven't been lately steeped in Turkey/Nice/Philippine-Drug-War-Gone-Vigilante, plus all the somewhat-past junk concerning the US elections and Brexit, but no, the sting here just makes me think, "Ah, blind bourgeois". Eh -- without those events specifically, I'd feel to write the same as the speaker anyway -- and besides, though I don't like this, doesn't mean this ain't likeable. So again, fair enough.[/b]
So, for now I think I'll say this: yes, it is probably an unimportant topic compared to war, famine, disease. I get it. Yet, I think that this topic has merit. Marketing to women by first creating insecurities and then exploiting them is big business. Multi-billion dollar big business. I've seen it from the inside, and it is insidious.
The things that the saleswoman is saying are not necessarily what she would actually be saying. The speaker is a mishmash of the actual salesperson, the company, the industry, and the regular person who has become part of the machine. Most women who work as saleswomen aren't doing it because they get a kick out of manipulating people, they're just trying to earn a living.
So, to one of Achebe's points, there's a lot of room for character development here. Duly noted.
I think that it's true that this piece will mostly resonate with western women. Not denying that, they just say to write what you know. Was a bit anal when I wrote that crit. Still think the crits are, like, valid, but now I'm liking it right proper, what with the slower newsday. Topic definitely has merit -- just not when other, bigger things are crawling up this reader's arse. As with all things, I guess.
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(07-21-2016, 12:33 AM)RiverNotch Wrote: Was a bit anal when I wrote that crit. Still think the crits are, like, valid, but now I'm liking it right proper, what with the slower newsday. Topic definitely has merit -- just not when other, bigger things are crawling up this reader's arse. As with all things, I guess.
Right, the crits are valid. I don't think this is on par with something that talks about the crisis in Syria or threatened ecosystems. Again, I can only speak to what I have experience with.
But, it's always nice to have those slow newsdays and fewer things up your....wherever.
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(07-16-2016, 03:39 PM)lizziep Wrote: I hold your gaze firm
as a handshake and say 'how may I help,'
but I'm not asking.
You can choose only the me you want to see— The word 'only' seems unusual to me.
soft spoken, hands in pockets,
or joking and slapping thighs.
You can choose my voice: your daughter, your sister,
your best friend forever.
That's my favorite shirt!
Modal has effortless weight. It requires This break really draws attention to the discomfort in their exchange. It does a good job sympathizing the reader to the speaker.
a different bra, though. May I ask your name? Very accurate.
I'll go get my measuring
tape because I'm not really asking.
I notice if you remove the following stanza which describing what she's noticing, the thought resumes "to make you wonder..." the word 'notice' doesn't seem strong enough here. To notice is very passive, whereas it seems that the buyer has been actively scrutinized.
the pants you're wearing—
their stitching, leg shape, drape—
to make you wonder
if everyone sees you in this much detail. insightful!
You become self-conscious, wanting to please.
Make me proud! I'm not sure this fits. The speaker is trying to play on the buyer's insecurities, not admiration.
Buy the name brand jeans with the rhinestones on the ass.
They offer control on the inside.
Do you need new panties? Something lacy!
Men will be watching, and you don't want to be embarrassed
to reveal something ugly. Yes.
I'm sure your husband
would love the matching bustier.
You don't have a husband? Buy the bustier!This outlines the mentality of the speaker with a lot of clarity.
Four hundred thirty-three dollars, ten cents—
it's refreshing to lose the pretense. Good rhyme. Creates a nice layer of meaning.
You ask for my name with a grateful smile I like the irony in 'grateful'.
and this is my final lie.
Excellent use of tone, and word choice. The breaks between lines really emphasized the deceptions. Everyone has felt that little break when we're told something doubtful or put on the spot.
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(08-09-2016, 08:13 PM)Southern Scarab Wrote: (07-16-2016, 03:39 PM)lizziep Wrote: I hold your gaze firm
as a handshake and say 'how may I help,'
but I'm not asking.
You can choose only the me you want to see— The word 'only' seems unusual to me.
soft spoken, hands in pockets,
or joking and slapping thighs.
You can choose my voice: your daughter, your sister,
your best friend forever.
That's my favorite shirt!
Modal has effortless weight. It requires This break really draws attention to the discomfort in their exchange. It does a good job sympathizing the reader to the speaker.
a different bra, though. May I ask your name? Very accurate.
I'll go get my measuring
tape because I'm not really asking.
I notice if you remove the following stanza which describing what she's noticing, the thought resumes "to make you wonder..." the word 'notice' doesn't seem strong enough here. To notice is very passive, whereas it seems that the buyer has been actively scrutinized.
the pants you're wearing—
their stitching, leg shape, drape—
to make you wonder
if everyone sees you in this much detail. insightful!
You become self-conscious, wanting to please.
Make me proud! I'm not sure this fits. The speaker is trying to play on the buyer's insecurities, not admiration.
Buy the name brand jeans with the rhinestones on the ass.
They offer control on the inside.
Do you need new panties? Something lacy!
Men will be watching, and you don't want to be embarrassed
to reveal something ugly. Yes.
I'm sure your husband
would love the matching bustier.
You don't have a husband? Buy the bustier!This outlines the mentality of the speaker with a lot of clarity.
Four hundred thirty-three dollars, ten cents—
it's refreshing to lose the pretense. Good rhyme. Creates a nice layer of meaning.
You ask for my name with a grateful smile I like the irony in 'grateful'.
and this is my final lie.
Excellent use of tone, and word choice. The breaks between lines really emphasized the deceptions. Everyone has felt that little break when we're told something doubtful or put on the spot.
Hi, and welcome to the Pen! You make some good points here. Yes, I will try to come up with a stronger word choice than "notice." I will consider your comments in the rewrite.
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