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EDIT 1
lifesize
before
pregnancy test
egg sperm balloon
cell division body motion
dilation bevel headed first light
empty belly to bloat lung screaming
devouring breast rice grilled cheese bag lunch
schoolhouse ranks and rankings bloody noses and kisses
eighteen pretending these words and days adult body growing
monkey hanging from buildings over yellow night roads mocking death
conceiving children from tooth red skin tattoos at bruise green thirty
body gravity back shrinking lower legs and arms bent forward
chasing the children raw brain tired past sun logic
into a mirror these children growing taller older
my wife and I an empty house
slow down sex and smaller older
alone again and littler grayer
worry evaporating night dew
we hold hands
going blind
until
even before birth
we begin to grow
cells inflate a moving body
empty belly to inflated lungs crying
so many meals leads to playground speak
opinions tested as longer lung inflated air heats
18 pretending so many words are adult body growing
monkey hanging from buildings over yellow night roads taunting death
conceived children from tooth sweat red markings at bruise green 30
from here the body starts to shrink back into itself
chase the children raw brain tired past sun logic
into a mirror these children growing taller older
my wife and I an empty house
alone again a little grayer smaller
sex still good but older
worry evaporating night dew
we hold hands
going blind
until
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Hi Kole, let me give you a few comments. I like the conceit of this, the shape of it, and overall what you're trying to do.
(07-19-2016, 05:06 PM)kolemath Wrote: even before birth--Good opening line. Evocative and Interesting
we begin to grow--I don't like lines that just make flat statements. You can cut them usually and lose nothing at all. If you simply moved to line three what is lost?
cells inflate a moving body
empty belly to inflated lungs crying--empty/inflated is a good contrast.
so many meals leads to playground speak
opinions tested as longer lung inflated air heats--I see what you did with air heats. I you are using inflated quite a bit throughout. This is the third reference in a short space. Maybe express the idea without using the tag.
18 pretending so many words are adult body growing--You use two numbers as numbers 18 and 30. I'm not sure what they really add. 18 is a quick adult tag so I get that purpose. I think they draw attention though that I'm reading a poem. Might work better as eighteen (hard to say could be style).
monkey hanging from buildings over yellow night roads taunting death--Like this line a lot. The image is interesting. I think though that you may want to change taunting death into something else. Thematically I don't know if I'd mention death in the poem. Just a thought. taunting gravity maybe.
conceived children from tooth sweat red markings at bruise green 30--This is also a really nice line. These last two lines might be a good model to readdress the entire poem with the more interesting language choices. I'm not saying the other lines are deficient but these two are definitely a departure from what's around them.
from here the body starts to shrink back into itself--a little too flat observation.
chase the children raw brain tired past sun logic--again love the language here.
into a mirror these children growing taller older
my wife and I an empty house--last two lines a bit on the flat observation side.
alone again a little grayer smaller--Not sure I like "a little"
sex still good but older--flat reportage
worry evaporating night dew--lovely (like the dual use of evaporating to the left and the right)
we hold hands
going blind
until--solid good ending
A little much for mild maybe, but I liked the poem and wanted to give the comments. I hope some of them help.
Best,
Todd
The secret of poetry is cruelty.--Jon Anderson
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Thanks for your comments, Todd. They always come much appreciated, and I appreciate their depth.
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Hey, Kole, I liked this one quite a bit. The shape of the poem lends itself well to the theme. The idea of growing/expanding and then contracting kept at me today, so that is a good sign.
even before birth
we begin to grow – Would you consider starting the poem with one word to bookend how it concludes? And maybe zing those first lines a little. It sounds a bit too much like prose. Maybe something like blooming zygote/ we grow into birth (blooming zygote is so horrible, I know).
cells inflate a moving body – I like the sound of “cells inflate”
empty belly to inflated lungs crying – Did you mean to use inflate again? I like the “y” and “l” sounds here.
so many meals leads to playground speak – I had to think about this one a little bit. It interrupted my reading flow as my brain scanned for the connection between meals and playground speak. I think I got it though – many meals equals growing up equals developing language and socializing.
opinions tested as longer lung inflated air heats – I love the way the words sound. – I see inflating is a theme now. I am unsure about “longer lung inflated air heats”. I have a friend who is a master of abstract poetry, and that is what first sprang to mind when I read that phrase. The sounds are lovely, but the meaning eludes me.
18 pretending so many words are adult body growing – The sonic connection between “words” and “growing” is my favorite part of this line.
monkey hanging from buildings over yellow night roads taunting death – Oh, man. Nice imagery. Maybe something other than “taunting” death?
conceived children from tooth sweat red markings at bruise green 30 – “Tooth sweat” reminds me of the “sweaty-toothed mad man” line from Dead Poets
from here the body starts to shrink back into itself – There is a stark contrast with this line and the previous few lines. It reads more prose. Was that intentional?
chase the children raw brain tired past sun logic – I think this is my favorite line overall. “tired past sun logic” is so nice.
into a mirror these children growing taller older
my wife and I an empty house
alone again a little grayer smaller – nice sounds
sex still good but older
worry evaporating night dew – I like how you constructed this line
we hold hands
going blind
until – I like how it ends
Nice one! Hopefully, you find something helpful in those comments. Cheers!
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You know I was reading through the latest crit and liked the idea of the one word bookends, maybe "before"
The secret of poetry is cruelty.--Jon Anderson
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(07-19-2016, 05:06 PM)kolemath Wrote: even before birth ...am with Todd and cvan on the 'before' bookends
we begin to grow
cells inflate a moving body
empty belly to inflated lungs crying
so many meals leads to playground speak
opinions tested as longer lung inflated air heats ....not a big fan of the speak/heats slant rhyme. It stands out.
18 pretending so many words are adult body growing
monkey hanging from buildings over yellow night roads taunting death ..'yellow night roads' is lovely
conceived children from tooth sweat red markings at bruise green 30
from here the body starts to shrink back into itself ....this line marks the mid point of the poem's story, but it has already shrunk back from the previous one. nice touch.
chase the children raw brain tired past sun logic
into a mirror these children growing taller older ...I like taller/older, the children are older and you are older, and the two types of 'older' are so like mirror images. the mirror, the contrast - all fantastic.
my wife and I an empty house ....the half constructed sentence has particular effect in this one, where it looks like some of the words have gone away
alone again a little grayer smaller
sex still good but older
worry evaporating night dew ...like 'yellow roads', lovely image
we hold hands
going blind
until ...ref bookends comment
kole - this was super
~ I think I just quoted myself - Achebe
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(07-19-2016, 05:06 PM)kolemath Wrote: even before birth
we begin to grow
cells inflate a moving body which is a little weird, because with the mention of "cells inflate" i'm somewhat reminded of ectodermal cells migrating to form, like, the nervous system, which is one big backtrack -- and even without that scientific mindset, this still feels like a backtrack
empty belly to inflated lungs crying which again feels like a backtrack -- would expect crying to come right after birth. but the swing from moving body to empty belly is a good one
so many meals leads to playground speak last word is kinda overshadowed for me by "playground", simply because playground, with its greater, er, concreteness, ends up being more vivid
opinions tested as longer lung inflated air heats again, another wild backtrack, and "opinions tested" feels like a massive leap forward, to say proper adolescence. but "longer lung inflated"
18 pretending so many words are adult body growing i like this repetition of sorts -- there's you turning from babe to kid, then there's you turning from kid to adult. adolescence: basically biological baptism. but starting the line with 18, again, it feels like an awkard leap forward, and i'm sort of in the camp of giving a bit more to adolescence: where's all the awkward somewhat sexy times (xD)?
monkey hanging from buildings over yellow night roads taunting death oh man, this line -- captures the spirit of adolescence so well! "monkey hanging" sounds childish -- "from buildings" urban, as if the person were surrounded by horizon-blocking silhouettes -- "over yellow night roads" more urban, this time making the imagery darker, like a world turning upside down, like innocence being perverted (i'm reminded of yellow brick roads) -- "taunting" the cynicism of youth -- "death" youth transitioning properly into adulthood
conceived children from tooth sweat red markings at bruise green 30 i like ending this with thirty, and i also like the fact that the "halves" of life here are pre-children and post-children, but the transition does feel a little swift. granted, the line before could have been more right-post-adolescence, aka the twenties, but i think there's something more to the twenties than just that spirit of daring, something that skipping straight to conception removes -- that, i dunno, sense of anxiety, but an anxiety whose identity is wholly different from that whole sense of world turning round in the previous line; maybe the anxiety of, "alright, the world's turned round. now what?" or something -- i dunno. not exactly 20-something yet myself. but still.
from here the body starts to shrink back into itself again, this feels advanced -- my parents didn't start complaining about their ageing til' at least 40! the sentiment is right, but "shrink" for me is too strong a word.
chase the children raw brain tired past sun logic not sure logic is a good ending here -- minds are surely more balanced at an advanced age, but not necessarily more logical. at least in my treatment of it, logic and emotion are equals, so that at this point it's balance that's more needed.
into a mirror these children growing taller older "older" feels again too advanced, although now the poem's slipping into a field of experience i'm not even that well-read about -- it feels too abstract, though, like it's being said purely with woe, without that mixture of joy and sadness that would be more natural to most parents at this stage of life, unlike everything that precedes it
my wife and I an empty house but now the poem is really running to an ending -- although the whole feeling of a mid-life crisis, or at least of other, more minor things ending first, like jobs and such, are glossed over, which again makes the poem feel a little too swift
alone again a little grayer smaller however, considering that the poem really is intent on skipping all of that, i must say that the fadeout starting with "older" is effective -- makes me feel like i'm playing that video game Passage, or that other video game To The Moon, or say watching the movie The Lion in Winter (although the spirit of its ageing central characters was much, much younger), or say watching the movie Unforgiven, or, heck, just spending time with my dad when he's feeling especially melodramatic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passage_(video_game)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_the_Moon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_i...1968_film)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unforgiven
all recommended, by the way, but don't spoil yourself by knowing the plot to the second video game beforehand -- might ruin the river of tears to come
sex still good but older eew, did you just make me think of old people sex? and why was there no proper mention of sex before? why now, when the peeps are old? --- i mean, silly point, but really, why no sex before? and the repetition of older doesn't feel right -- the word itself doesn't develop as grow/growing developed before
worry evaporating night dew i'm a little detracted by the suddenly specific image of dew, but i think it works -- i suppose the more tranquil a person feels, the more he turns to the images around him
we hold hands damn.
going blind damn.
until damn. wonderful, wonderful ending.
my first reading of this, i got kinda bored, but i guess it was just my mood. really, really, really lovely work. note that i also italicized the end-words/phrases because i don't remember, something about an earlier crit?
(07-19-2016, 05:06 PM)kolemath Wrote: even before birth
we begin to grow
cells inflate a moving body
empty belly to inflated lungs crying
so many meals leads to playground speak
opinions tested as longer lung inflated air heats
18 pretending so many words are adult body growing
monkey hanging from buildings over yellow night roads taunting death
conceived children from tooth sweat red markings at bruise green 30
from here the body starts to shrink back into itself
chase the children raw brain tired past sun logic
into a mirror these children growing taller older
my wife and I an empty house
alone again a little grayer smaller
sex still good but older
worry evaporating night dew
we hold hands
going blind
until
This is excellent. Visual and something to which I can relate. You might consider replacing "inflate" from the "cells" and perhaps use "create" "ignite" or "precurse"
I think it would be OK to say "in an empty house" or "with empty house"
Maybe "monkeys hanging from heights" ? And perhaps "dark roads" ?
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Thanks for the close reads everyone. @todd: i've tried to be more consistent with the narrator's voice. @cvan: thanks for the bookend idea and your detailed comments. @RN: I'm blown away by your depth of reading. thanks for helping me see the important points of a lifelong narrative arc. i'm not sure my revision does you comments justice. @robert: thanks for your comments, as I considered them in revision.
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(07-19-2016, 05:06 PM)kolemath Wrote: EDIT 1
lifesize
before -- interesting to begin before existence. I like it. Or, is it just before the pregnancy test? Either way, I like.
pregnancy test
egg sperm balloon
cell division body motion
dilation bevel headed first light
empty belly to bloat lung screaming -- can you do bloated here? It would read better to me.
devouring breast rice grilled cheese bag lunch -- the sonics of moving from breast to rice is awkward. I have to really work my lips to say that properly.
schoolhouse ranks and rankings bloody noses and kisses -- I like the ranks and rankings, that's evocative
eighteen pretending these words and days adult body growing
monkey hanging from buildings over yellow night roads mocking death -- your best line, in the most prominent spot
conceiving children from tooth red skin tattoos at bruise green thirty
body gravity back shrinking lower legs and arms bent forward
chasing the children raw brain tired past sun logic
into a mirror these children growing taller older
my wife and I an empty house
slow down sex and smaller older
alone again and littler grayer
worry evaporating night dew
we hold hands -- like these last three lines
going blind
until
even before birth
we begin to grow
cells inflate a moving body
empty belly to inflated lungs crying
so many meals leads to playground speak
opinions tested as longer lung inflated air heats
18 pretending so many words are adult body growing
monkey hanging from buildings over yellow night roads taunting death
conceived children from tooth sweat red markings at bruise green 30
from here the body starts to shrink back into itself
chase the children raw brain tired past sun logic
into a mirror these children growing taller older
my wife and I an empty house
alone again a little grayer smaller
sex still good but older
worry evaporating night dew
we hold hands
going blind
until
Ok, so. I think the revision is better, you're going in the right direction. Actually, you're there. A few tweaks here and there.
I have two quibbles:
1. You haven't shown me anything new except the format. Nothing in here surprises me or thwarts my expectations. It's a factual description of growing and aging. Not everything has to have layered meanings or deep metaphorical interpretations -- I've written things that didn't have that myself. So, not so much a criticism as an observation that there's room for more depth if you want that.
2. Life peaks at 18. What the hell man!!  This is more of a jest, but it's kind of depressing that everything from 18 is downhill. The less reality I have to confront in poetry the better.
Good work.
lizziep
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(07-19-2016, 05:06 PM)kolemath Wrote: I return!
lifesize
before I dunno, I think "even before birth" sounded way more poeticall
pregnancy test
egg sperm balloon
cell division body motion I mean, the last one did suffer, at this point, from a lot of temporal whiplash, but this time you may have cleared the road too much -- now it just feels dry. "balloon" is specific, sure, but at least "grow" had the same tenderness as how cell division usually seems, at least to my scholarly eyes. So yeah, I'm not really liking these first four changes -- at least until we get to "body motion", which makes me think of babies dancing.
dilation bevel headed first light Wait....a bevel headed baby? Zika?
empty belly to bloat lung screaming "Bloat lung" sounds like a disease. "Bloated lung", without the "to", would at least sound, I dunno, properly inflated. But good news is these two lines really, really, really get things going -- your turn to a drier, noun-ier style works here, pulls me out to the world like a vortex, especially with that flash of light not in first light, since I think babies get to experience light first even before they get out of the womb (only in that case it's all red and gray), but in SCREAMING.
devouring breast rice grilled cheese bag lunch Yeah, "breast rice" is weird, sonically. A funny image, too, although only when taken out of context -- the movement to solid food here, with its rapidity, works very well. I can see of those four lines you could maybe cut one, and in exchange add one for potty training here, a very important step I gleaned from Freud.
schoolhouse ranks and rankings bloody noses and kisses Well, you commented on my last poem in serious, so I hope you'll know why I'm (half deviously, half delightedly) smiling on "kisses".
eighteen pretending these words and days adult body growing Again, the skip over of adolescence, unless rankings, bloody noses, and kisses are all there is for most of it, in which case I beg to differ. But now perhaps the problem is mine, in that I consider this as if it were written objectively, rather than from someone specific's point of view -- say, Boyhood instead of Amarcord. But then the very pointed diction sort of supports the whole "Boyhood" argument.
monkey hanging from buildings over yellow night roads mocking death But say I did manage to swallow the whole Amarcord deal: this line, as with that last one, is just grand. Not too sure about changing "taunt" to "mock", though.
conceiving children from tooth red skin tattoos at bruise green thirty The change from "conceived" to "conceiving" is very welcome here, though.
body gravity back shrinking lower legs and arms bent forward Still slightly too advanced, but worded much better than before either way.
chasing the children raw brain tired past sun logic Considering the whole Amarcord deal, logic might slide.
into a mirror these children growing taller older Again, older feels too advanced -- though switching them around, masking the angst of "old" with the joy of "tall", might work.
my wife and I an empty house I mean, really, my main case was give a bit more to teens, and let the twenties and thirties linger as they always seem to (judging by my relatives', sibling's, parents' anecdotes, as well as a healthy dose of Octopus Pie, and not yet by experience), instead of rushing through them as you seem to have. So yeah, now I still see this as a rush, although having no real mid-life crisis at this point works (so that the rush to the end starting here works in general), especially since mid-life crises seem to be the purview of the upper middle class and up alone.
slow down sex and smaller older Again, older/older repetition doesn't ring right, though not as much as in my last read. And again, old people sex, EEW! xD
alone again and littler grayer Considering how the previous poem's rush to the end was, at least for me, a damn-fest, this line just slows the momentum a bit -- a bit that's unnecessary, really.
worry evaporating night dew And again, damn
we hold hands damn
going blind damn
until and damn.
I don't know -- not much has really changed, so I can't tell if the direction you're moving to is better or not. Considering this poem may be more subjective than how the speaker seems to speak (yeah, that "We" should have given it away, although normally people get most narcissistic when they're adolescents....I think. The current American elections seem to be proving the case against that), I'm slightly getting the lack of proper treatment for adolescence and them 20s/30s a bit more, but then the same thing holds true with the previous edition. So yeah, maybe the handling of childhood got better, maybe the handling of infacy (really, pre-infancy, with the massive extension in that direction) got worse, and maybe the handling of old age got diluted, but again, all of those as descriptions of this commentary's results are really just maybes. But then maybe that in itself is a clue: if a new edition only produces "maybes", then it probably (ach, more assured word please -- but then "definitely" is definitely too strong) failed.
What, among the generals, I am sure of is that the new title sucks -- nothing about this poem screams "lifesize", as surely others have done truly life-sized portraits before, and with definitely the "size" to support it (see Boyhood). Whereas lifespan -- well, it's plain, sure, but it's on point, and the piece has enough gems to compensate for that.
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It reads well to me. It could be a nice spoken word piece--punching each word.
Very slight suggestion: Maybe kill the and on this line.
"alone again and littler grayer "
The secret of poetry is cruelty.--Jon Anderson
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