Changing peoples poems.

[lizzyrose12]

I've had my poetry changed many, many, many times before and I know I should accept it but I will be honest: I don't like it. In my opinion you shouldn't read someones poem and change their lines in anyway except for grammar, I'll explain why: Sometimes we feel like the poet needs more fancy words and better descriptions of emotion in their poem. But what people don't realize is, you can't feel exactly what that poet is feeling when they wrote it, so changing it may change the whole emotion. I never will edit anyone elses poems with my own words, for I myself find it extremely insulting.

What are your views on this?

[billy]

i agree in general lizzy.
that said there are exceptions.

when you post a poem in a workshop you open it up to anyone who wants to help or take part in developing it.

when you post in serious critique, sometime the only way a thing can be explained is by giving an example.

as with all comment, feedback, or critique; the changes shown are in no way a statement as to how they should be used.

for instance. the rewrite i did wasn't a rewrite that should become yours. it was a rewrite you could possible use as a board to bounce off in doing an edit on a poem you're trying to workshop.

i'm presuming this;

The best time of day is dusk; when the rain
lashes against asphalt with wet whips,
orchestrated by roiling thunder.
Each night I lose time and a little of myself
moon gazing through the eyes of childhood.
It’s so simple,
it’s so poetic.
All alone under the quilted universe
I seem pathetic.

is what pre-empted your posting here in discussions.
the easiest way to stop it happening again is to only post in:

the mild critique forum
the for fun poetry forum
or the poetry practice forum.

the last thing we or I want to do is rewrite your poetry for you.
if you do however wish to post in the serious critique and workshop forums you will as they say
have to grow a pair and accept that people will make suggestions as to what they think may work better.

you as the author always has the ability to just say thanks for the reply while ignoring what they've said.

instead of doing a rewrite as an example i could have thrown a multitude of poetic styles and poems for you to compare yours against, and point out what i mean but that would be unfair of anyone to expect me to do so.
the easiest way was to give an example for you to use in building a poem.

thank you for posting your question here and not on the poem.

btw, i too hate it when someone changes a word or sentence of my poetry but i always accept it as honest feedback. it makes it less painful and often helps me grow as a poet. i usually do an edit and use more of my own words to sort out any problems

[lizzyrose12]

i agree in general lizzy.
that said there are exceptions.

when you post a poem in a workshop you open it up to anyone who wants to help or take part in developing it.

when you post in serious critique, sometime the only way a thing can be explained is by giving an example.

as with all comment, feedback, or critique; the changes shown are in no way a statement as to how they should be used.

for instance. the rewrite i did wasn't a rewrite that should become yours. it was a rewrite you could possible use as a board to bounce off in doing an edit on a poem you're trying to workshop.

i'm presuming this;

The best time of day is dusk; when the rain
lashes against asphalt with wet whips,
orchestrated by roiling thunder.
Each night I lose time and a little of myself
moon gazing through the eyes of childhood.
It’s so simple,
it’s so poetic.
All alone under the quilted universe
I seem pathetic.

is what pre-empted your posting here in discussions.
the easiest way to stop it happening again is to only post in:

the mild critique forum
the for fun poetry forum
or the poetry practice forum.

the last thing we or I want to do is rewrite your poetry for you.
if you do however wish to post in the serious critique and workshop forums you will as they say
have to grow a pair and accept that people will make suggestions as to what they think may work better.

you as the author always has the ability to just say thanks for the reply while ignoring what they've said.

instead of doing a rewrite as an example i could have thrown a multitude of poetic styles and poems for you to compare yours against, and point out what i mean but that would be unfair of anyone to expect me to do so.
the easiest way was to give an example for you to use in building a poem.

thank you for posting your question here and not on the poem.

btw, i too hate it when someone changes a word or sentence of my poetry but i always accept it as honest feedback. it makes it less painful and often helps me grow as a poet. i usually do an edit and use more of my own words to sort out any problems

You truly wrote a beautiful poem, but what bothered me was that it wasn't my poem at all. But I see where you're coming from. Thanks!

[addy]

Yeah, it can be pretty frustrating when you wrote this particular line that you love, then someone tells you to change it. However, as the author you still have full autonomy over your work. The suggestions are there merely to offer a new perspective on the piece, whether you find the perspective valid or not. To be fair, the corrections given are merely ideas so you can rewrite it on your own should you wish... they should never feel like an imposition.

Even though you may not like it at first, there's still a benefit to receiving more serious critique. Think about it: I'm sure even the most brilliant poets (think Shakespeare!), when they tweak and revise their own work, don't just do it to fix the grammar! That's not the only way to evolve and improve a poem. As the amateur poets we are, the comments of others are just another good way to get ideas on how to mold and revise our own work (even the best poets offer up their work for critique when they feel "stuck").

[billy]

the only real analogy i can give lizzy is this.

how did we learn to read, and how did we learn to write

did we just pick up a pencil and or book. or did someone show us how to spell our name, how to spell the street where we live?
did some one read out first words for us, show us that ball is b,a,l,l?

and what did we do when we'd learned to write, did we just write our name and address or did we fly and write stories with our own words.

when we'd learned to read, did we just read about John and Mary and a blue ball? or did we rediscover the world, sometimes with our own words and imagination. if we did how was it done, where did we get the imagination to have our own journeys.

we often got it from the likes of Jules Verne, pippy longstocking, Shelly and Arthur Conan Doyle. we used their words to make our own poetry. all I've ever written, all I've ever loved in words has been stolen, garnered or borrowed from others and written with my own imagination. their words help me fly by my own wing beat. to refuse to use or amend what they shared would be to crawl instead of walk, to run instead of fly.

seldom are words new, it's only the manipulation of words that say something different. all we have to do is manipulate what we read, see, feel and know.

[Todd]

Hi Liz,

If the poem is posted to a workshop or a critiquing forum I have no problem offering whatever I think will make a poem stronger. Giving online suggestions can sometimes come off abrupt. It would be much better if we were all face-to-face talking about the poem. Being separated by continents we don't have that option (but we trade it for the gift of being exposed to writers we have no business even meeting because of the distance).

If the poem is published or posted somewhere just to display what someone has written yeah then it would be rude to offer line suggestions.

It's all about context.

My belief is that NO ONE gets better without critique. If I did not have honest feedback with yes rewritten lines to show me what they meant I would still be ten years away from where I am now. Critique is a gift. Yes it's also painful. It's humbling. In the beggining, if you embrace it you can sometimes over-rotate and have trouble trusting your own instincts. You may be too quick to apply every suggested change. But in time, you know what to use and what to blow off. It is as you say: your poem, your vision, your words. If someone makes a good suggestion you consider it, maybe incorporate it, but you still do it in your own words.

When someone gives me a line restructuring that I don't agree with I try to go beyond what they've written and think...what do they seem to be trying to tell me: Did they chop out a lot of words? Maybe they think they're redundant or that the pacing is too slow. I then ask myself is any of that true? If it is I fix it. If it isn't I thank them and blissfully ignore it.

The truth is it takes a long time to cure yourself of bad habits critique helps you do that. So, I'm cool with anyone rewriting my lines. I just know that I'm not obligated to do any of their changes.

If you don't want that level of interaction then I'd stay away from workshops for a bit (though I'm not suggesting you not post here ), or when you post a poem I'd say something like: What I'm specifically interested in knowing: Does this come across clearly? Or how's the punctuation?

I think most of us have felt exactly what you're feeling with this type of process.

Just my take,

Todd