Sonnet #3: Lives lived in vain

[taratica]

Hi there!

This is my first upload of a poem. I would like some strong criticism, please. It is supposed to be a sonnet. The title is a work in progress. It is about indiscriminate terrorism and extremism.

Sonnet #3: Lives lived in vain

What kind of monster has such a blatant,
Indiscriminate disregard for life?
Why is this world so plagued by violent
And viscous ideologies of strife?

How can these vile villains eliminate
Scores of innocents, young and old alike,
In the name of dogma, justice and fate?
How can they justify each fatal strike?

We have to believe that these beasts are few
And that lives spent in fear are lived in vain.
We cannot succumb to a bleak world view
Where our hearts are ruled by hatred and pain.

Our hearts ache for those afflicted by grief
And in fellowship we find some relief.

[bedeep]

Hi taratica. I wonder why you chose the sonnet form for this? (Just curious, really.)

As for critique, well, there are a lot of abstract words throughout that weaken the impact. You make it clear you want this to be strong message but by relying on words like "indiscriminate" and "dogma", etc., you turn it into a letter to the editor type of message and fail to convey a felt experience to the reader.

To start I would suggest you remove all abstract generalizations and see if you can say what you mean using specific, bodily, sensory terms. After all, violence is very personal to the recipient and there is nothing abstract about the pain involved. Invoke the senses.

Good luck and I hope that is helpful.

[Todd]

Hi taratica,

I think you've gotten some great advice already. So this might be redundant but I think you've got your mind wrapped around the argumentation, and there are moments where you get lost in hyperbole "vile villains", "scores of innocents", "viscous ideologies of strife". All of this may be true, but the execution through argumentation makes it appear overdone and false. Like most writing, narrow the lens to one specific story, one atrocity. Let us see and experience that story and have it represent the greater issue.

I hope that helps some. Glad to have you on the site!

Todd

[ellajam]

Moved from Novice to Mild at Tara's request.

[babymonkey]

I like your poem. I think you did a marvelous job with the rhyme and meter. It is not easy to write a sonnet without making it sound forced. I admire your ability to fit all the words neatly into the sonnet, one of the most challenging forms for many writers. Your poem flows well. The only issue I see is that it reads more like an essay of some sort than a poem. May be you would like to use some metaphors to oomph the poem a little. It seems flat to my ears right now.

Nice work over all.

[taratica]

Thank you, Bedeep!

I will take another crack at this. This is some very constructive advice.

Hi taratica. I wonder why you chose the sonnet form for this? (Just curious, really.)

As for critique, well, there are a lot of abstract words throughout that weaken the impact. You make it clear you want this to be strong message but by relying on words like "indiscriminate" and "dogma", etc., you turn it into a letter to the editor type of message and fail to convey a felt experience to the reader.

To start I would suggest you remove all abstract generalizations and see if you can say what you mean using specific, bodily, sensory terms. After all, violence is very personal to the recipient and there is nothing abstract about the pain involved. Invoke the senses.

Good luck and I hope that is helpful.

---

Thank you, Todd!

I will most definitely take your advice into account on the rework.

Hi taratica,

I think you've gotten some great advice already. So this might be redundant but I think you've got your mind wrapped around the argumentation, and there are moments where you get lost in hyperbole "vile villains", "scores of innocents", "viscous ideologies of strife". All of this may be true, but the execution through argumentation makes it appear overdone and false. Like most writing, narrow the lens to one specific story, one atrocity. Let us see and experience that story and have it represent the greater issue.

I hope that helps some. Glad to have you on the site!

Todd

---

Sorry, Bedeep,

I forgot to address your question on my choice of a sonnet. There are several reasons:

1) The strict structure of the sonnet makes it easier for me to work. Since I'm so new at this, I appreciate having guidelines to go off of.
2) At the same time, it is a rather difficult structure to master = the challenge is appealing

Quite simply put, it makes you say what you need to say without unnecessary words.

So, now that I've got some good advice to work with, such as limiting the abstract words and have been advised to re-think the argumentation, I have even more 'guidelines' to go off of.

Your advice is very much appreciated.

Hi taratica. I wonder why you chose the sonnet form for this? (Just curious, really.)

As for critique, well, there are a lot of abstract words throughout that weaken the impact. You make it clear you want this to be strong message but by relying on words like "indiscriminate" and "dogma", etc., you turn it into a letter to the editor type of message and fail to convey a felt experience to the reader.

To start I would suggest you remove all abstract generalizations and see if you can say what you mean using specific, bodily, sensory terms. After all, violence is very personal to the recipient and there is nothing abstract about the pain involved. Invoke the senses.

Good luck and I hope that is helpful.

[dukealien]

Hi there!

This is my first upload of a poem. I would like some strong criticism, please. It is supposed to be a sonnet. The title is a work in progress. It is about indiscriminate terrorism and extremism.

Sonnet #3: Lives lived in vain

1. What kind of monster has such a blatant,
   
2. Indiscriminate disregard for life?
   
3. Why is this world so plagued by violent
   
4. And viscous ideologies of strife?   vicious
   
   
   
5. How can these vile villains eliminate    there was only one in the last stanza
   
6. Scores of innocents, young and old alike,
   
7. In the name of dogma, justice and fate?
   
8. How can they justify each fatal strike?
   
   
   
9. We have to believe that these beasts are few
   
10. And that lives spent in fear are lived in vain.   do we really believe that?
    
11. We cannot succumb to a bleak world view
    
12. Where our hearts are ruled by hatred and pain.
    
    
    
13. Our hearts ache for those afflicted by grief
    
14. And in fellowship we find some relief.   new thought here?
    

In mild critique, you have, I believe, about two of five features here which characterize a sonnet (Shakespearean form, to be exact).  Your syllable count is spot-on, and your rhyme scheme is almost exactly correct (LL1 and 3, "blatant" and "violent" don't quite rhyme).

The feature I most miss when reading this is meter.  Conventionally, English sonnets are written in iambic pentameter, ten syllables to a line - which you have - alternating between unstressed and stressed.  If you read your LL 3 and 4 aloud - and give "violent" three syllables - this is iambic pentameter.  It may sound a little singsong, but minor variations are possible for emphasis.  Now read your L1.  Where LL3-4 are ./././././ where "/" is a stressed syllable, L1 read normally is ././..../.  ("what KIND of MONster has Such a BLAtant") - if forced into iambic, it would sound like "what KIND of MONster HAS such A blaTANT."  (Pardon me for belaboring this - I don't mean to be harsh, and I haven't read anyone else's critique yet.)  The point is, while variations ("substitutions") are welcome in moderation, meter is expected in this kind of poem.  It takes practice:  it's like, you know how to hop twenty times on one foot, now you have to learn to jump rope.*  You can do it - getting the ten syllables consistently isn't easy and you've done that, and nobody - no matter how lacking in pigment - is really rhythm-deaf.

A sonnet often has a romantic theme (mine frequently don't, so this is a VERY mild criticism).  The mention of fellowship and relief goes some way in this direction.

A sonnet is also characterized by a "turn" or volta at L13 or L9.  You have something of that nature transitioning from despair/description to qualified hope.  In the Shakespearean form (yours here) it tends to be at L13, the closing couplet.

You will find that many on this forum disapprove of using a capital letter at the beginning of each line, for various reasons (confuses the reading, is archaic, etc.).  I do not:  to me, traditional typography makes us, writing sonnets today, part of the tradition.  OTOH, sometimes I don't.

You have a number of identifiable cliches, starting with your title ("lived in vain").  Read through critically and you'll find more ("young and old alike," "bleak world view").  Expand your working vocabulary a bit and you'll find it's not that hard to substitue a few words for a cliche and arrive at something fresh and arresting ("youths and older innocents," "ever-jaundiced view").

Finally, the ideas expressed are a little confused and could be clarified.  For example, the first two lines speak of *one* monster while the rest speaks of such monsters as a class; making it apparent that you're generalizing later from the one example, or just starting with plural, could smooth this out.  L10 ("And that lives spent in fear are lived in vain"), which also contains your title, is jarring:  are you saying that we *must* believe monsters are few because otherwise our lives are lived in vain - even though they aren't really few, we're just pretending otherwise to cheer us up and live productive lives?  My sense is that you're more optimistic than that; it would be rather cynical read that way.

And last, beware word-processor/self-correction errors.  In L4 you mean "vicious," not "viscous" (heavily oily).

Overall:  You have many hours of enjoyable editing to look forward to here, especially a marvelous opportunity to match words to meter (and refine ideas in the process).  This is at least your third sonnet, so you have the quality of persistence.  Use it, and others will develop!

---

*free verse would be hopscotch

[taratica]

Hello Dukealien,

Wow! I really enjoyed reading your critique. Now, to find some time to work on this poem some more. Stay tuned for the next edition...

Hi there!

This is my first upload of a poem. I would like some strong criticism, please. It is supposed to be a sonnet. The title is a work in progress. It is about indiscriminate terrorism and extremism.

Sonnet #3: Lives lived in vain

1. What kind of monster has such a blatant,
   
   
2. Indiscriminate disregard for life?
   
   
3. Why is this world so plagued by violent
   
   
4. And viscous ideologies of strife?   vicious
   
   
   
   
5. How can these vile villains eliminate    there was only one in the last stanza
   
   
6. Scores of innocents, young and old alike,
   
   
7. In the name of dogma, justice and fate?
   
   
8. How can they justify each fatal strike?
   
   
   
   
9. We have to believe that these beasts are few
   
   
10. And that lives spent in fear are lived in vain.   do we really believe that?
    
    
11. We cannot succumb to a bleak world view
    
    
12. Where our hearts are ruled by hatred and pain.
    
    
    
    
13. Our hearts ache for those afflicted by grief
    
    
14. And in fellowship we find some relief.   new thought here?
    
    

In mild critique, you have, I believe, about two of five features here which characterize a sonnet (Shakespearean form, to be exact).  Your syllable count is spot-on, and your rhyme scheme is almost exactly correct (LL1 and 3, "blatant" and "violent" don't quite rhyme).

The feature I most miss when reading this is meter.  Conventionally, English sonnets are written in iambic pentameter, ten syllables to a line - which you have - alternating between unstressed and stressed.  If you read your LL 3 and 4 aloud - and give "violent" three syllables - this is iambic pentameter.  It may sound a little singsong, but minor variations are possible for emphasis.  Now read your L1.  Where LL3-4 are ./././././ where "/" is a stressed syllable, L1 read normally is ././..../.  ("what KIND of MONster has Such a BLAtant") - if forced into iambic, it would sound like "what KIND of MONster HAS such A blaTANT."  (Pardon me for belaboring this - I don't mean to be harsh, and I haven't read anyone else's critique yet.)  The point is, while variations ("substitutions") are welcome in moderation, meter is expected in this kind of poem.  It takes practice:  it's like, you know how to hop twenty times on one foot, now you have to learn to jump rope.*  You can do it - getting the ten syllables consistently isn't easy and you've done that, and nobody - no matter how lacking in pigment - is really rhythm-deaf.

A sonnet often has a romantic theme (mine frequently don't, so this is a VERY mild criticism).  The mention of fellowship and relief goes some way in this direction.

A sonnet is also characterized by a "turn" or volta at L13 or L9.  You have something of that nature transitioning from despair/description to qualified hope.  In the Shakespearean form (yours here) it tends to be at L13, the closing couplet.

You will find that many on this forum disapprove of using a capital letter at the beginning of each line, for various reasons (confuses the reading, is archaic, etc.).  I do not:  to me, traditional typography makes us, writing sonnets today, part of the tradition.  OTOH, sometimes I don't.

You have a number of identifiable cliches, starting with your title ("lived in vain").  Read through critically and you'll find more ("young and old alike," "bleak world view").  Expand your working vocabulary a bit and you'll find it's not that hard to substitue a few words for a cliche and arrive at something fresh and arresting ("youths and older innocents," "ever-jaundiced view").

Finally, the ideas expressed are a little confused and could be clarified.  For example, the first two lines speak of *one* monster while the rest speaks of such monsters as a class; making it apparent that you're generalizing later from the one example, or just starting with plural, could smooth this out.  L10 ("And that lives spent in fear are lived in vain"), which also contains your title, is jarring:  are you saying that we *must* believe monsters are few because otherwise our lives are lived in vain - even though they aren't really few, we're just pretending otherwise to cheer us up and live productive lives?  My sense is that you're more optimistic than that; it would be rather cynical read that way.

And last, beware word-processor/self-correction errors.  In L4 you mean "vicious," not "viscous" (heavily oily).

Overall:  You have many hours of enjoyable editing to look forward to here, especially a marvelous opportunity to match words to meter (and refine ideas in the process).  This is at least your third sonnet, so you have the quality of persistence.  Use it, and others will develop!

---

*free verse would be hopscotch

[billy]

hi taratica.

good to see you take the feedback about abstract words to heart.
what makes this a great sonnet is the fact you attempted a sonnet. that said it is the attempt that's great and not the sonnet itself. the good thing is that most poems can improve with edits. it's the reason for the site. it's obvious what the poem is about, no need for hints unless you think it may be to ambiguous.

the title works well enough

use some poetic devices in the poem, alliteration, consonance, assonance to name three. use a few metaphors or similes; they create imagery they can be found here if you were watching these atrocities on the news what would you be seeing, show us what you see not what they said.

Hi there!

This is my first upload of a poem. I would like some strong criticism, please. It is supposed to be a sonnet. The title is a work in progress. It is about indiscriminate terrorism and extremism.

Sonnet #3: Lives lived in vain

What kind of monster has such a blatant,
Indiscriminate disregard for life?
Why is this world so plagued by violent
And viscous ideologies of strife?

How can these vile villains eliminate
Scores of innocents, young and old alike,
In the name of dogma, justice and fate?
How can they justify each fatal strike?

We have to believe that these beasts are few
And that lives spent in fear are lived in vain.
We cannot succumb to a bleak world view
Where our hearts are ruled by hatred and pain. watch out for cliches they kill most poems

Our hearts ache for those afflicted by grief
And in fellowship we find some relief.