The Night Mountain

[jameso]

The Night Mountain  version #2

When a dwindling eve
darkens into night.
When a pallid moon 
Splashes leaves in white.
When a soft air stills, 
Travellers may find.
The Night Mountain grants 
Its sight to pure minds.

Over part its face, 
clotted woodlands creep
And a silver line 
winds along its peak,
With a sleepy spell 
that blankets the glen,
The Night Mountain soothes 
troubled hearts of men.

Though a tiresome search 
feet may undertake,
Deep within the mind, 
quarry must he make.
For the traveller seeks, 
but cannot be sought.
The Night Mountain comes 
to those of pure thought.

At its mighty base 
lies a wooded way.
On this roughewn path, 
must a true mind stay.
For asylum sweet, 
beckons every bend.
Pass, though tarry not, 
Traveller must ascend.

Ten nights must he sit
'neath the Banyan Tree.
No word may he make, 
nor food may take he.
When the dust is still, 
then the heart is freed.
Now’s the Mountain’s wont 
to call pure of deed.
(Now the Mountain may 
summon pure of deed)

At the Mountain’s head, 
where now ends the path,
Sits a hallowed hall 
with a glowing hearth
Noble traveller 
having done no wrong
May push wide the doors, 
and receive its throng.

Inside others turn, 
welcoming their guest.
In rapturous verse, 
he will join the rest.
To the song, this choir, 
will bequeath their lives,
For Night Mountain is 
lost when day arrives...





The Night Mountain  Original

When a crimson eve turns a purple night
And a shrouded moon dapples leaves in white
When the crisp air stills, a traveller may find
That the Night Mountain appears to those of pure mind

O'er part its face does a forest creep
And a silver rim does line its peak
With a sleepy spell that blankets the glen
The Night Mountain soothes the hearts of men

Though a thousand mile ramble, may his weary feet take
It is within the mind, must a journey he make
For the traveller may seek, but it cannot be sought
The Night Mountain comes to those of pure thought

At its mighty base lies a wooded way
And upon this path, must a true mind stay
For asylum so sweet, softly beckons each bend
To observe, nay not tarry, can the traveller ascend

Ten nights must he sit 'neath the Banyan Tree
Neither word may he make, nor food taketh he
And when dusts have settled and hearts are freed
The mountain will beckon to those of pure deed

At the head of the mount, at the end of the path
Sits a hallowed hall with a glowing hearth
And a noble traveller who has done no wrong
May the doorway open, may he enter its throng

Inside there are others, they welcome their guest
And in joyous refrain, he takes up with the rest
To the chorus, this choir, will offer their lives
For no more's the Night Mountain when morning arrives...

[Achebe]

Hi, jameso - by posting in 'Mild' you're inviting a bit more honest feedback than you'd get in 'Novice'. A wise decision.
Some feedback below:
1. A number of phrases and expressions in the poem are poetic cliches, having been repeated by countless poets bad and good over hundreds of years. Examples are "crimson eve", "purple night", "shrouded moon", etc.

2. Images have been drawn that are not credible - for instance,
a) the night sky is never purple, except close to the Arctic circle perhaps; 
b) the moon, shrouded or not, doesn't dapple leaves. Rather, it is the leaves that create a dappled light and shade pattern of light on the ground under the moon
c) a Banyan tree pops up in the middle of a glen.
d) a traveller walking 1,000 miles on foot (also see the next point)

3. The Night Mountain starts off hinting to be a metaphor if not euphemism for something , but in the poem, you are also talking about a literal mountain, one that has a 'forest creeping' over its face. Now if this is all metaphor, you need to explain that the heck a forest on the face of life's mountain is in turn a metaphor for. Otherwise, the metaphor suddenly becomes random. When the poem ends, the reader is left with the feeling that you were just making things up. As fantasy, it's not fantastic enough; as philosophy it's not logical enough.

[jameso]

Hi Achebe. Very good, thanks for the valuable feedback. It is highly appreciated, so the following explanations are not a rejection of your comments, merely a conversation.

This is a fantasy poem, I plan to perhaps illustrate it in a book but anyway that's by the by.
1. I am trying to set a ye olde fantasy tone with clichéd descriptions like crimson eve, shrouded moon, id like to see what others think of this, if perhaps it is too clichéd.
2.
a) 'Purple night' is one of the extraneous conditions that allows for the night mountain to appear.
b) very good point.
c) A glen is a narrow valley, and not part of the mountain which contains the Banyan Tree, although there is no reason why a Banyan tree can't be in or near a glen. Just that the word is of Scottish origin doesn't limit it to Scottish landscapes by definition.
d) 'walking a thousand miles' is for better or worse a very common term that i don't think most people would get caught on in a fantasy poem. But I would love to hear from others if this stands out.

3. This is really for the most part a fantasy. Open to be viewed as a metaphor perhaps for some sort of spiritual awakening or journey. But I had a clear picture of a fantasy location in my head when writing this, perhaps as i am by trade a visual artist. If you would care to expand on why you think it's not fantastical enough, I'd be interested. Or if you have any ideas on what you'd prefer to see.

thanks

[Achebe]

Hi Achebe. Very good, thanks for the valuable feedback. It is highly appreciated, so the following explanations are not a rejection of your comments, merely a conversation.

This is a fantasy poem, I plan to perhaps illustrate it in a book but anyway that's by the by.
1.  I am trying to set a ye olde fantasy tone with clichéd descriptions like crimson eve, shrouded moon, id like to see what others think of this, if perhaps it is too clichéd. ....you can write fantasy and still be original. A cliche is not bad because it's been used before, but because it has been used so many times that it's lost the power to make an impression, which is what we're after in poetry.
2.
a) 'Purple night' is one of the extraneous conditions that allows for the night mountain to appear. ... since you are asking for crit on the poem as a stand-alone piece, what is not in the poem is irrelevant.
b) very good point
c) A glen is a narrow valley, and not part of the mountain which contains the Banyan Tree, although there is no reason why a Banyan tree can't be in or near a glen. Just that the word is of Scottish origin doesn't limit it to Scottish landscapes by definition. .....words have nuances, particularly in poetry. I 'wigwam' is not a synonym for 'tent' and 'monsoon' is not a synonym for any type of wet weather. Banyans are not characteristic of Himalayan glens, as these are higher up, and get cold weather in the winter. You do find them in the Terai forests and river valleys, but they are not 'glens'. I would be happy to be proved wrong.

d) 'walking a thousand miles' is for better or worse a very common term that i don't think most people would get caught on in a fantasy poem. But I would love to hear from others if this stands out.
....its commonness is why it's a cliche.

3. This is really for the most part a fantasy. Open to be viewed as a metaphor perhaps for some sort of spiritual awakening or journey. But I had a clear picture of a fantasy location in my head when writing this, perhaps as i am by trade a visual artist. If you would care to expand on why you think it's not fantastical enough, I'd be interested. Or if you have any ideas on what you'd prefer to see.
....I'm not saying that the night mountain should be a metaphor, but most readers would give you the benefit of doubt and think that it is. 
Regarding the fantastic element, let's look at the last stanza written out without the line breaks:

Inside there are others, they welcome their guest and in joyous refrain, he takes up with the rest to the chorus, this choir, will offer their lives for no more's the Night Mountain when morning arrives...

Does this make sense to you? The fantastical element (the mountain disappearing and the magic party inside the mountain) is overwhelmed by the lack of literal meaning in the rest of the stanza. You have lost meaning in an attempt to rhyme. I know this because I've been there too.

thanks

Don't lose heart - try and revise it. Start by seeing whether the lines written out without their breaks are making sense.

[ellajam]

Although I haven't given you a full crit of the piece, if you need a second opinion on
"Though a thousand mile ramble, may his weary feet take"

for me "ramble" didn't change "walk a thousand miles" enough to make it less cliche or more interesting and "weary feet" made it worse. I'm sure you could think of a more interesting way to say it.

I'll try to get to to full critique tomorrow, sorry about that.

[jameso]

Thanks folks. I only have time to address part of this for now. Achebe are you talking about simply punctuation? to me this sentence reads okay as a sentence from a peom when I punctuate it correctly:

Inside there are others, they welcome their guest. And in joyous refrain, he takes up with the rest. To the chorus, this choir, will offer their lives, for no more's the Night Mountain when morning arrives...

[Achebe]

Jameso - the punctuation does lend clarity. But I'm still not sure what you mean by " to the chorus this choir will offer their lives, for no more etc."
I've removed the comma after chorus.

What does "offering your life to the chorus" mean?
At the moment it reads like - to the chorus the choir will offer their lives because the night mountain disappears in the morning.
I'm confused between cause and effect.

If you meant "in chorus the choir will give up their lives" it's different.

[jameso]

Achebe.
The night mountain will disappear in the morning. where does it go? what is the fate of the singers in the hall? have they given up their lives and vanished into death or nothingness? or have they offered their lives, as to an eternal cause? like worshippers or monks offer their lives to a deity. I think it leaves the question more open; is this a death or an eternity? what do you think?

[Achebe]

Achebe.  
The night mountain will disappear in the morning. where does it go? what is the fate of the singers in the hall?  have they given up their lives and vanished into death or nothingness? or have they offered their lives, as to an eternal cause? like worshippers or monks offer their lives to a deity.  I think it leaves the question more open; is this a death or an eternity? what do you think?

if you want the reader to be asking those sorts of questions, you need to develop the story and make it interesting. that means more description.
in your 7 stanzas, it's only in the last one that you talk about the singers in the hall at all, a total of 3 lines.
the rest of the poem doesn't really build up to it.

[jameso]

okay thanks Achebe. I will think on how to revise.

[milo]

The Night Mountain


When a crimson eve turns a purple night
And a shrouded moon dapples leaves in white
When the crisp air stills, a traveller may find
That the Night Mountain appears to those of pure mind

O'er part its face does a forest creep
And a silver rim does line its peak
With a sleepy spell that blankets the glen
The Night Mountain soothes the hearts of men

Though a thousand mile ramble, may his weary feet take
It is within the mind, must a journey he make
For the traveller may seek, but it cannot be sought
The Night Mountain comes to those of pure thought

At its mighty base lies a wooded way
And upon this path, must a true mind stay
For asylum so sweet, softly beckons each bend
To observe, nay not tarry, can the traveller ascend

Ten nights must he sit 'neath the Banyan Tree
Neither word may he make, nor food taketh he
And when dusts have settled and hearts are freed
The mountain will beckon to those of pure deed

At the head of the mount, at the end of the path
Sits a hallowed hall with a glowing hearth
And a noble traveller who has done no wrong
May the doorway open, may he enter its throng

Inside there are others, they welcome their guest
And in joyous refrain, he takes up with the rest
To the chorus, this choir, will offer their lives
For no more's the Night Mountain when morning arrives...

Ok, my biggest problem with this is the archaic, hackneyed writing including 'ye olde phrasing, inversion and faux poetic constructs.  It reads more like a parody of a poem from someone that doesn't take poetry seriously at all than an actual poem.:

Crimson eve
does a forest creep
does line its peak
may his weary feet take
O'er
etc.

These are painful parodies of romatic-era poetry without the skill that goes into that poetry.

Add to these the romantic sounding phrases that litter through it, the broken meter and the forced rhymes and it becomes quite a chore to read.  Maybe try updating it to read like something written within the last hundred years and don't write towards the rhymes, rather let the rhymes naturally fall or avoid them all together.

Good luck, thanks for posting.

[jameso]

The Night Mountain


When a crimson eve turns a purple night
And a shrouded moon dapples leaves in white
When the crisp air stills, a traveller may find
That the Night Mountain appears to those of pure mind

O'er part its face does a forest creep
And a silver rim does line its peak
With a sleepy spell that blankets the glen
The Night Mountain soothes the hearts of men

Though a thousand mile ramble, may his weary feet take
It is within the mind, must a journey he make
For the traveller may seek, but it cannot be sought
The Night Mountain comes to those of pure thought

At its mighty base lies a wooded way
And upon this path, must a true mind stay
For asylum so sweet, softly beckons each bend
To observe, nay not tarry, can the traveller ascend

Ten nights must he sit 'neath the Banyan Tree
Neither word may he make, nor food taketh he
And when dusts have settled and hearts are freed
The mountain will beckon to those of pure deed

At the head of the mount, at the end of the path
Sits a hallowed hall with a glowing hearth
And a noble traveller who has done no wrong
May the doorway open, may he enter its throng

Inside there are others, they welcome their guest
And in joyous refrain, he takes up with the rest
To the chorus, this choir, will offer their lives
For no more's the Night Mountain when morning arrives...

Ok, my biggest problem with this is the archaic, hackneyed writing including 'ye olde phrasing, inversion and faux poetic constructs.  It reads more like a parody of a poem from someone that doesn't take poetry seriously at all than an actual poem.:

Crimson eve
does a forest creep
does line its peak
may his weary feet take
O'er
etc.

These are painful parodies of romatic-era poetry without the skill that goes into that poetry.

Add to these the romantic sounding phrases that litter through it, the broken meter and the forced rhymes and it becomes quite a chore to read.  Maybe try updating it to read like something written within the last hundred years and don't write towards the rhymes, rather let the rhymes naturally fall or avoid them all together.

Good luck, thanks for posting.

Thanks for the feedback Milo. You are suggesting some pretty large changes there. might take me some time. 

could you please clarify where the meter is broken? thanks

[milo]

The Night Mountain


When a crimson eve turns a purple night
And a shrouded moon dapples leaves in white
When the crisp air stills, a traveller may find
That the Night Mountain appears to those of pure mind

O'er part its face does a forest creep
And a silver rim does line its peak
With a sleepy spell that blankets the glen
The Night Mountain soothes the hearts of men

Though a thousand mile ramble, may his weary feet take
It is within the mind, must a journey he make
For the traveller may seek, but it cannot be sought
The Night Mountain comes to those of pure thought

At its mighty base lies a wooded way
And upon this path, must a true mind stay
For asylum so sweet, softly beckons each bend
To observe, nay not tarry, can the traveller ascend

Ten nights must he sit 'neath the Banyan Tree
Neither word may he make, nor food taketh he
And when dusts have settled and hearts are freed
The mountain will beckon to those of pure deed

At the head of the mount, at the end of the path
Sits a hallowed hall with a glowing hearth
And a noble traveller who has done no wrong
May the doorway open, may he enter its throng

Inside there are others, they welcome their guest
And in joyous refrain, he takes up with the rest
To the chorus, this choir, will offer their lives
For no more's the Night Mountain when morning arrives...

Ok, my biggest problem with this is the archaic, hackneyed writing including 'ye olde phrasing, inversion and faux poetic constructs.  It reads more like a parody of a poem from someone that doesn't take poetry seriously at all than an actual poem.:

Crimson eve
does a forest creep
does line its peak
may his weary feet take
O'er
etc.

These are painful parodies of romatic-era poetry without the skill that goes into that poetry.

Add to these the romantic sounding phrases that litter through it, the broken meter and the forced rhymes and it becomes quite a chore to read.  Maybe try updating it to read like something written within the last hundred years and don't write towards the rhymes, rather let the rhymes naturally fall or avoid them all together.

Good luck, thanks for posting.

Thanks for the feedback Milo. You are suggesting some pretty large changes there. might take me some time. 

could you please clarify where the meter is broken? thanks

well, there are a lot of lines so it could take quite a while.  In addition, it switches between inconsistent meter and broken meter back and forth which makes it problematic.  Consider:

whenaCRIM sonEVE TURNS aPUR pleNIGHT

you have an anapaest, 3 iambs and an aexendrine caesura combination going on mid.  It would be a pretty complex (and Greek inspired) meter to hold up and pretty difficult to maintain in English. Surprisingly, your next line mirrors it which sets up an expectation.  Your third line:

whentheCRISP airSTILLS aTRA velLER mayFIND

ip with a common anapaestic sub for the first foot.  Still, not terribly problematic though unexpected.


thattheNIGHT MOUNTain apPEARS toTHOSE ofa PUREMIND

this line is just a mess.  Anapaest, troche, iamb, iamb, pyrrhic, spondee - pretty much a mish mash of no metric regularity.

The rest of the poem continues with the random metric and non metric lines throughout.  This is what it might look like padded to perfect meter. (note, this is NOT a suggestion, just a demonstration)

 a crimson eve that turns a purple night,
 a shrouded moon that dapples leaves in white
When crisp air stills, a traveller may find
the Mountain shows to those that have a mind

O'er part its face a mossy forest creeps'
a silver rim belies a narrow peak,
a sleepy spell that blankets o'er the glen
The Mountain soothes the thorny hearts of men

a thousand mile ramble, takes his feet
It is within the mind, his fate to mete
 the traveler may seek, but can't be sought
The Mountain comes to those who have a thought

The base belies a heavy wooded way
And on this path, a noble mind must stay
For sweet asylum beckons every bend
he cannot tarry for he must ascend


etc, etc, etc

just try to get the rhythm in your head before you work on change ups.

[jameso]

Milo - Thanks, this really helps and I enjoyed your changes. Totally different meter to the one I had in mind. Do you think it would be helpful to attach audio links to recitals of our poems (notwithstanding that poems are for reading as much as for listening to)?

I have no education in poetry as I'm sure you can tell, so those names for metric styles are completely lost on me. Your demonstration, however, says it all.

---

okay i've had another crack at it. Achebe I haven't addressed some of the issues you raised like detailing of the story. I have focussed mainly on the meter and ridding of cliches. Keen to hear people's thoughts

[ellajam]

Milo - Thanks, this really helps and I enjoyed your changes. Totally different meter to the one I had in mind. Do you think it would be helpful to attach audio links to recitals of our poems (notwithstanding that poems are for reading as much as for listening to)?

I have no education in poetry as I'm sure you can tell, so those names for metric styles are completely lost on me. Your demonstration, however, says it all.

---

okay i've had another crack at it. Achebe I haven't addressed some of the issues you raised like detailing of the story. I have focussed mainly on the meter and ridding of cliches. Keen to hear people's thoughts

In the Important Threads of this very forum you'll find a thread on basic meter.

[jameso]

Milo - Thanks, this really helps and I enjoyed your changes. Totally different meter to the one I had in mind. Do you think it would be helpful to attach audio links to recitals of our poems (notwithstanding that poems are for reading as much as for listening to)?

I have no education in poetry as I'm sure you can tell, so those names for metric styles are completely lost on me. Your demonstration, however, says it all.

---

okay i've had another crack at it. Achebe I haven't addressed some of the issues you raised like detailing of the story. I have focussed mainly on the meter and ridding of cliches. Keen to hear people's thoughts

In the Important Threads of this very forum you'll find a thread on basic meter.

Oh cool, I didn't realise. Having a look now, very useful.