Falling Fruit

[Erthona]

Falling Fruit
 
Is the fruit forever numb,
think you it lacking, dumb?
Or else an unsupportable bum,
that from the tree it must be hung
by your insipid meddling?
 
And you call this needed support?
When more than any you do abort,
because your fear of their comport?
Want not their brain to exercise
needy and dependant?
 
You salt your quisling in the pie,
then pepper liberally with lies,
but now your time is coming neigh
and this fruit will burst anew,
for the truth is shinning.
 
 
 
erthona
 
Note: This is not written in iambic, it is written in accentual verse 4-4-4-4-3, or free iambic verse with trochee turns. The idea behind this sort of form is that it allows the writer the ability to modulate the rhythmic pattern to accentuate certain aspects of the poem. Just thought I'd let you know so you did not spend time scanning it to tell me I am out of meter.    dale
©2004 revised 2016

[Tiger the Lion]

Hey Dale. Metrics considered I think there are some inversions here. Most are subtle and not devastating, but I thought I'd point them out where I see them.

Falling Fruit
 
Is the fruit forever numb,
think you it lacking, dumb? debatable inv. - maybe "do you find it lacking, dumb" 
Or else an unsupportable bum,
that from the tree it must be hung another subtle inv. the enjambment probably justifies this one
by your insipid meddling?
 
And you call this needed support?
When more than any you do abort, "you DO abort" this one jumps out at me
because your fear of their comport? because of?
Want not their brain to exercise
needy and dependant?
 
You salt your quisling in the pie,
then pepper liberally with lies, Love this line
but now your time is coming neigh nigh?
and this fruit will burst anew,
for the truth is shinning. shining? 
 
 
 
erthona
 
Note: This is not written in iambic, it is written in accentual verse 4-4-4-4-3, or free iambic verse with trochee turns. The idea behind this sort of form is that it allows the writer the ability to modulate the rhythmic pattern to accentuate certain aspects of the poem. Just thought I'd let you know so you did not spend time scanning it to tell me I am out of meter.    dale
©2004 revised 2016

That's all I got for now. I like the accentual verse as the piece flows from iambic to almost staccato. But, even in this form the inversions are noticeable to this reader. Subtle as they may be.

Paul

[Erthona]

Thanks Paul, some excellent suggestions and catches. Yeah, the inversions, not intentional. Some days my dyslexia is just stronger than others. Not sure the extra "of" helps in S2L3, makes it sound like a horse galloping, at least today. everything else I can take on.

Thanks

dale

[RiverNotch]

Falling Fruit
 
Is the fruit forever numb, Maybe semicolon instead of comma?
think you it lacking, dumb? The break in rhythm here is weird -- would prefer Tiger's suggestion.
Or else an unsupportable bum,
that from the tree it must be hung
by your insipid meddling?
 
And you call this needed support? I still get a bit twisted as to how meter works when a work doesn't work with regular feet, but I see this as having the possibility of being read with only three stresses -- the ones that are really there for me are only "call", "need", and "port".
When more than any you do abort,
because your fear of their comport? Either this is missing an "of", or you change "your" to "you" and remove an "of". Removing the "of" would break the rhythm, of course, but I agree that an extra "of" would make this sound too close to a hurrying ass. Hmm....
And, but this is only me, I keep reading "comport" as "comport", that is, the dessert, which of course is metrically wrong -- but, and this time this should be a valid bit of crit, the duplicity's a pun that works well.
Want not their brain to exercise
needy and dependant? Shouldn't it be "dependent"? Dependant is just too, er, inconsistently defined....
And there's something so, I dunno, ineffective about the statement of these last two lines -- say, a certain lack of vividness unsupported by any rhymes, or something.
 
You salt your quisling in the pie,
then pepper liberally with lies, Metrically, this is proper, but the gargling sound of "liberal" detracts for me, here -- everything's so smooth, even with the jumps in the stresses, until this.
but now your time is coming neigh Nigh, unless you really want your lines to gallop.
and this fruit will burst anew, Maybe remove the comma.
for the truth is shinning. Is the "shinning" intentional? "Shinning" as in climbing down (although weird, for a fruit)? If so, well, I think this is way too easy to read as shining, and a lot of people might get the wrong idea -- and again, weird that a bit of truth will shinny down a tree, 'stead of, er, tumble, or something.
 
Hmm....I usually think if someone's gonna work with stressy-verse, that someone ought to be a bit more playful, really take advantage of that freedom -- more trochees at the beginning, more jumping about, placing special goodies as spondees here and there, with a real correspondence between sound and meaning, that sort of thing. I mean, the freedom from stricter meter here works, but when you announced it with that big note, I was really hoping for a bit of something. Oh well. It's good stuff anyway.
©2004 revised 2016

[Erthona]

Thanks RN, nice critique. You're right there are some metrically unsound things in there, even though it is not strict meter.

You and Paul both had a problem with this line "because your fear of their comport?"

In other words of their conduct, their behavior, that they might break away from what the "you" referred to wants the "them" to do.

definition:
comport: to bear or conduct (oneself); behave: (dictionary.com)

It does seem a little weird, I'll admit, as though I should use something like "comportment", but that is considered obsolete. So I am stuck with the verb form, although it could be a grammatical error...anybody want to weigh in on that?

"noun: Obsolete. comportment."  (dictionary.com) So I am stuck with comport

Written out sentence wise I suppose it should be "because of your fear of their comport?" That is the "fear" is preexisting, which for me is an important point. Changing it to "because you fear their comport?" Carries the connotation of immediacy and not the long standing dread that the other does. This is not a justification of how it is written, these were my thoughts when writing it this way. At this point I may have to settle for the lessor meaning because both of you are correct and it cannot be left as is and I am not sure I can tolerate two "of" in the same line. 

Shouldn't it be "dependent"? Dependant is just too, er, inconsistently defined....

dependant: relying on someone or something else for aid, support, etc.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
And you call this needed support? I still get a bit twisted as to how meter works when a work doesn't work with regular feet, but I see this as having the possibility of being read with only three stresses -- the ones that are really there for me are only "call", "need", and "port".

Straight iambs: And you call this needed support?  

_______________________________________________________________________________
"And there's something so, I dunno, ineffective about the statement of these last two lines -- say, a certain lack of vividness unsupported by any rhymes, or something."

This was an experimental, obviously it did not work for you, but the weakness in the line is suppose to reflect the weakness in what is being said. This is not a high energy statement. Compare to the ending of S1

"that from the tree it must be hung
by your insipid meddling?" 

contrast, however with the more energetic words in S3, and also metrically as it starts with a line of trochee and ends on one.

"and this fruit will burst anew,
for the truth is shinning."



In S2 it is as though there is hardly a third foot in the last line "needy and dependant? Although the accent is on the middle syllable of "dependant" it is not a hard accent, making the line weaker.

So...that was by design, but maybe it was not a design that worked. I do a lot of this sort of thing, most does not end of being a success.

Oh well...

Thanks again for your critique, lots to work on here.

dale

PS If this response seems a bit disjointed I have a screaming child about 10 feet from me while I try and write this

[tectak]

Falling Fruit
I like most of your stuff but have learned to be cautious in both praise and in criticism. Like much of what you write this seems to me to be organic. It grows as it goes. It metamophoses in to its finality...worryingly, though, I am not convinced that this is in your control. I confess that the metrics of a piece are for me of inverse importance to the words...but it only works one way round. Words win every time...as here. So I am buggered if I care a jot about your 44443 inverted trochees  with a half-foot twist. Who are you kiddin'? Now to the poem.
 
Is the fruit forever numb, Now lookee here. This is ONE question and it constitutes a sentence. End it now, with a question mark.
think you it lacking, dumb? Another question. Ditto. Questionable research in to that dumb word probably forced you to rhyme in retrospect with numb. Somewhere in your labyrinthian neurones a synapse fired and you were disavowed of plum and plumb. I would have used one or the other...but that's me.
Or else an unsupportable bum,
that from the tree it must be hung
by your insipid meddling? Yes to this though "the" tree is introducing a doubt in the reader's mind...what am I missing? What does he know that I do not? Aw the hell. "a" tree, please.
 
And you call this needed support? Vive la difference. This line is actually statemental so CAN roll on in to the next two lines to complete the complex question.
When more than any you do abort,
because your fear of their comport? Question comport. It seems more agreeable than pernicious in context. I do not understand what you are saying.
Want not their brain to exercise
needy and dependant? To be frank, it is getting muddlesome. their, plural...brain, singular. exercise needy? Huh?
 
You salt your quisling in the pie,
then pepper liberally with lies,
but now your time is coming neigh nigh unless you are a little horse(touche)
and this fruit will burst anew,
for the truth is shinning. shining

All in all, there is an over complexity in the piece which does not permit me to comment on intent. To square the circle, the words win over both metrics and meaning. Is that good?
Best,
tectak
 
 
 
erthona
 
Note: This is not written in iambic, it is written in accentual verse 4-4-4-4-3, or free iambic verse with trochee turns. The idea behind this sort of form is that it allows the writer the ability to modulate the rhythmic pattern to accentuate certain aspects of the poem. Just thought I'd let you know so you did not spend time scanning it to tell me I am out of meter.    dale
©2004 revised 2016

[Erthona]

Tom wrote: All in all, there is an over complexity in the piece which does not permit me to comment on intent. To square the circle, the words win over both metrics and meaning. Is that good?

I don't know Tom. I think it may be too flawed. The top layer (hen, hen) is about racism or rather the abatement of it and the feeling of loss that those who profit by it feel, but the poem is archetypal and can extend to many situations (parent-child for instance). However the bunglesome nature may only lend itself to file thirteen. I was aware of many of its flaws when I put it up, but lacked answers. I was hoping to get some, which I did, but I fear not enough to save the poor thing, which is unfortunate. I was listening to a Billy Holiday song shortly before I wrote this, the song? "Strange Fruit" Maybe I'll make the correction at hand and leave it before discarding it altogether.
Of course the thread will stay open (I do not close threads as some do--gives haughty look of disdain) so maybe so bright soul will come along and offer suggestions. I guess a revision is in order, if for no other reason than to correct the typos.

Thanks for the help,

dale

PS Einstein is right again.

[tectak]

Tom wrote: All in all, there is an over complexity in the piece which does not permit me to comment on intent. To square the circle, the words win over both metrics and meaning. Is that good?

I don't know Tom. I think it may be too flawed. The top layer (hen, hen) is about racism or rather the abatement of it and the feeling of loss that those who profit by it feel, but the poem is archetypal and can extend to many situations (parent-child for instance). However the bunglesome nature may only lend itself to file thirteen. I was aware of many of its flaws when I put it up, but lacked answers. I was hoping to get some, which I did, but I fear not enough to save the poor thing, which is unfortunate. I was listening to a Billy Holiday song shortly before I wrote this, the song? "Strange Fruit" Maybe I'll make the correction at hand and leave it before discarding it altogether.
Of course the thread will stay open (I do not close threads as some do--gives haughty look of disdain) so maybe so bright soul will come along and offer suggestions. I guess a revision is in order, if for no other reason than to correct the typos.

Thanks for the help,

dale

I'm not convinced yet. Einstein guessed a lot so I guess a lot of what he guessed would turn out to be true...but this ain't turned out yet. The Earth could be ringing....that's my guess.

PS Einstein is right again.

[Erthona]

nah, if there is such a thing as gravity, that is to say what a large mass does to time-space, then a very large mass could create waves that move through time-space. Just like a small piece of sand will make a dimple in the water, a rock will create ripples. However, I still disagree when people talk about gravity as a force, gravity is not a force, it is an effect. There will never be a unification of forces since gravity is not a force. Gravity does not exists at the sub-atomic level as there is not enough mass to effect space-time. Then you say, well, what causes of molecular hydrogen cloud to collapse?  I would guess the elector-magnetic force cause the cloud to clump until it becomes dense enough to effect space-time, which leads to greater mass density leading to the effect called gravity, and eventually a star if the molecular is large enough to ignite fusion. Just so, gravity waves are only the effect of a huge mass acting on space-time to the extent it sends out ripples, not unlike a stone dropped into a pond. So maybe it is a problem of semantics, that is the way it is being said implies that there is such a thing as gravity as a force in and of itself, when this is simply not true. When they say gravity waves, more properly what they should say is they are picking up the disturbance (in the form of ripples in space-time) created by two massive objects coming together, like two super massive black holes. These two objects coming together is not dissimilar to dropping a stone in water. So although the wording was unfortunate, the actuality was in fact correct.

dale