Untitled

[Jeremiahcp]

[Deleted by User]

[UselessBlueprint]

Well, it is something. However, I think it is precisely that. Personally (maybe I'm just blind), I don't see a lot of technical aspects to this. It seems to say precisely what the words say and not much else. I think the same effect can be achieved in ten words or less here. The only thing that would allow this poem to have significant depth would be the inclusion of "God," but there is nothing else to indicate in which direction the reader should dig. Some punctuation would be nice, where applicable, as I don't see a reason why this poem shouldn't have it.

(Nothing says you can't do more than three reviews before posting original work.)

[NickyDubs]

I think it's a good building block to a larger story. It gets a little confusing at the end. Is it God or the Ego? I think I know where you are going with it but be bold, Go for it. That's all that poetry is. Good Luck, great start.

[Jeremiahcp]

Well, it is something. However, I think it is precisely that. Personally (maybe I'm just blind), I don't see a lot of technical aspects to this. It seems to say precisely what the words say and not much else. I think the same effect can be achieved in ten words or less here. The only thing that would allow this poem to have significant depth would be the inclusion of "God," but there is nothing else to indicate in which direction the reader should dig. Some punctuation would be nice, where applicable, as I don't see a reason why this poem shouldn't have it.

(Nothing says you can't do more than three reviews before posting original work.)

" I think the same effect can be achieved in ten words or less here."

Do you think I should cut the 2nd stanza completely?

[Beat Eater]

I like this. I feel like it just starts to get going right before it ends, though. Some punctuation and maybe different line breaks would help with the flow. I wasn't sure where you intended your reader to pause.
This was a tastey morsel and I would love to read more.

[Jeremiahcp]

How about this as a rewrite.

He was certain
his steps led the way
so sure he was
they led him astray

[Achebe]

Did my three reviews, so I suppose it is time I posted something. This is something I just wrote. Love any feedback, thanks. =)

He was certain
his steps
led the way
but his pride
was leading
him astray

To God
he thought
he was going
but his ego
took him the
opposite way

There are no natural pauses in the sentences that you have constructed. This causes two issues:
1. It reads like prose if the reader does not pause at each line end
2. It reads like arbitrary staccato if he does.
Most short-line poems that I can recall have 4-5 syllables in their lines, because below that number it becomes hard to not sound staccato.
But if you insist on 2-4 syllables, you need to avoid having a string of 3-syllabled lines in sequence.

[Magpie]

I agree that the lack of punctuation leads to confusion as to how it should be read and therefore interpreted. The first stanza could be understood as "He was certain his steps led the way" and that "He was certain his pride was leading him astray", although I don't think this is your intention I can't be entirely certain. Some may say that it is obvious and that common sense dictates what is meant. But some punctuation would leave no doubts at all.

I'm not sure why you have chosen to rewrite the poem in the way you have. I would think that the second stanza would be more worth keeping simply because it doesn't have a cliche like 'leading him astray' which is in the first stanza. The whole idea of the poem is definitely a worthy one, you just need to say it in an original way.

Thanks for the read,

Mark

[Jeremiahcp]

Thanks for all the feedback guys/gals, I appreciate it. I edited the OP, for the rewrite, as I think UselessBlueprint is right. There is no need for the 2nd stanza, as it does not bring anything else to the poem that is not already said in the first stanza. After considering all the input, at this time, I consider that revision the final version.

[abbigailpaige]

Honestly, I really like the second stanza, and I think it serves as a very functional opening to discussing a more philosophical topic, such as religion or a struggle within it. I can't say that it's terribly specific because it doesn't contain a lot of detail. I do like how straightforward it is though; it's beautiful. I do think you should add to it, and make the lines longer by compiling them so the poem is more fluid.

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I think the second stanza should be kept because it serves as an opening if you were to add onto the existing poem. Mentioning God and your ego allows for a deeper discussion to occur, and I think you should add to it. I also think that the lines should be longer (compile the short lines you have into a few long ones). I really appreciate how it's simple yet complex, and how it's so straightforward.

[QDeathstar]

I do not think the idea is original enough to support a four line poem. I don't think the sentences make enough impact to warrant two word lines.

[UselessBlueprint]

^ Which is part of why I didn't actually say to just cut out the second stanza. Nonetheless, the two stanzas together, in my opinion/perspective, could easily still be said in a more concise, more compact, and more impacting form than the two original stanzas.

[rhoiyt]

I personally think "so sure was he" would be better, maybe with a comma in the end.
In case you change your mind about the second stanza, I'd suggest changing "the opposite" to 3-syllables like "the other". And, maybe something like this:

He was certain
his steps led the way
so sure was he,
they led him astray
To God he thought he was going
But his ego took him the other way

[Jeremiahcp]

Thanks for all the great advice, and Rhoiyt, I love that edit on the poem.

I'll consider the god thing, but the problem, as I see it, is the 2nd stanza takes away from the 1st stanza, by giving the poem a more focused direction. The 1st stanza when on its own is a universal statement about pride, but with the 2nd stanza then the whole poem is about God (as God always steals the spotlight). A poem about God will speak to a lot of people, but using religion can also lock some people out. However a poem about pride alone is a universal message that will speak to nearly everyone.

[ellajam]

Thanks for all the great advice, and Rhoiyt, I love that edit on the poem.

I'll consider the god thing, but the problem, as I see it, is the 2nd stanza takes away from the 1st stanza, by giving the poem a more focused direction. The 1st stanza when on its own is a universal statement about pride, but with the 2nd stanza then the whole poem is about God (as God always steals the spotlight). A poem about God will speak to a lot of people, but using religion can also lock some people out. However a poem about pride alone is a universal message that will speak to nearly everyone.

A poem about pride will speak to most if it somehow makes us feel the pride, and then the good and/or bad aspects of it. Just telling us is not enough. That's why I feel your edit is weak, it's just not enough for me.

[Erthona]

Untitled/revised

accentual verse, 2 accents per line with an xaxa rhyme scheme.


This reads more as a minor syllogism or maybe a parable, rather than a poem. It is written in a poetic way(see above), yet poetry generally shows one the thing through the use of metaphor or other such devices it does not just tell it as ella has already said.

If the thesis is that pride leads to a fall, aka "Paradise Lost", it is certainly well traveled ground and this piece brings nothing new to the table.  

It is disturbing that there is no title. Any poem worth writing deserves the consideration of a title. Using "untitled" as the title gives the impression that the writer doesn't know what the poem is about and by inference, doesn't know what he is about   (nothing new there for anybody)  Still if there is ever a should in poetry, it is a poem should always have a title. It would have been easy enough to name it "Pride" or any number of things. Nothing so great as to require steam coming from one's ears. A poet takes "care" of the large things, yes, but also of the small. Any poet worth his salt would be embarrassed to put up a piece that he had not labored over in terms of rooting out typos, grammar problems and so on. To put it bluntly, if the writer is so unimaginative as to be unable to come up with at least some title, let alone a suitable one, what hope has he of writing a decent poem? So the little things are important and the more one progresses, the more important they become.

Even using the original, the idea that reliance on self will somehow get one to God has been covered so many times. There is a Barry McGuire song that covers the same subject. I used to know the song (that is I used to preform it), but I have forgotten the lyrics for the most part. He describes four different men. A miser, a (can't remember), a rich man who goes to church, but doesn't really practice the religion, and a humble man. Of course only the humble man makes it into heaven. All the other men were prideful in some way. A hoarder, self-reliant and so on.

This isn't to say this topic can't be written about, but it must come from a unique and original place. Just saying flat out, "Pride goes before a fall," does not make much of a poem, in fact it makes no poem at all.

On a positive note, the writer does seem to have some natural talent in verse awareness and rhyming, this is natural talent and no amount of training will give it to you (which is not to say training cannot improve it) and a willingness to take and respond positively to criticism, never an easy thing.

Certainly this has been a good practice piece for the writer and hopefully he will take what he has learned and progress forward. From the responses given I think there is a strong possibility of that.

Welcome to the site,

Best,

dale

[mcauburn]

Welcome to the site.

Posting your first poem for critical review can be a difficult threshold to cross. I know, I have yet to post my first poem. So kudos for putting your hat in the ring.

Great input from the members in the previous posts. I'm sure, based on your follow up comments and changes to your poem, you appreciate each and every comment. In my opinion, less is more most of the time. Putting a focus on the path, and a little play on words, maybe this captures the theme in a succinct way:

His path was astray,
When his pride stepped in the way.


Thanks for posting.

[Jeremiahcp]

Untitled/revised

accentual verse, 2 accents per line with an xaxa rhyme scheme.


This reads more as a minor syllogism or maybe a parable, rather than a poem. It is written in a poetic way(see above), yet poetry generally shows one the thing through the use of metaphor or other such devices it does not just tell it as ella has already said.

If the thesis is that pride leads to a fall, aka "Paradise Lost", it is certainly well traveled ground and this piece brings nothing new to the table.  

It is disturbing that there is no title. Any poem worth writing deserves the consideration of a title. Using "untitled" as the title gives the impression that the writer doesn't know what the poem is about and by inference, doesn't know what he is about   (nothing new there for anybody)  Still if there is ever a should in poetry, it is a poem should always have a title. It would have been easy enough to name it "Pride" or any number of things. Nothing so great as to require steam coming from one's ears. A poet takes "care" of the large things, yes, but also of the small. Any poet worth his salt would be embarrassed to put up a piece that he had not labored over in terms of rooting out typos, grammar problems and so on. To put it bluntly, if the writer is so unimaginative as to be unable to come up with at least some title, let alone a suitable one, what hope has he of writing a decent poem? So the little things are important and the more one progresses, the more important they become.

Even using the original, the idea that reliance on self will somehow get one to God has been covered so many times. There is a Barry McGuire song that covers the same subject. I used to know the song (that is I used to preform it), but I have forgotten the lyrics for the most part. He describes four different men. A miser, a (can't remember), a rich man who goes to church, but doesn't really practice the religion, and a humble man. Of course only the humble man makes it into heaven. All the other men were prideful in some way. A hoarder, self-reliant and so on.

This isn't to say this topic can't be written about, but it must come from a unique and original place. Just saying flat out, "Pride goes before a fall," does not make much of a poem, in fact it makes no poem at all.

On a positive note, the writer does seem to have some natural talent in verse awareness and rhyming, this is natural talent and no amount of training will give it to you (which is not to say training cannot improve it) and a willingness to take and respond positively to criticism, never an easy thing.

Certainly this has been a good practice piece for the writer and hopefully he will take what he has learned and progress forward. From the responses given I think there is a strong possibility of that.

Welcome to the site,

Best,

dale

I wrote a paper on the homogenization of creative writing by higher education, and the be original mantra is one of the areas I looked at. You might find it interesting, as it also addresses the idea of writers are born vs. writers are created. I am of the mind, that natural talent will never surpass hard work.

---

Thank you  all, for the input from everyone. I can honestly say I took it all into extended consideration, but I am actually satisfied with the current revision, and that is my final revision for this poem. Thank you for giving much to think about.