Crumbs revision 1

[Todd]

Revision

My childhood lies behind me
in this trail of torn bread.

I always ate enough
to remain hungry,
my stomach empty:

a waning moon
behind the branches
of this darkling forest.

Even when I saw food on her table,
I kept gnawing on the shingle,
a greedy little mouse, little mouse.


I still carry the finger bone
that I pressed into her hand
each night, after licking the plates.

Hunger crossed the threshold
and remained in me, even as her fat
melted in the oven. I had come back
older than my parents.

Unlike the girl in the fairy tale,
gems did not fall from my mouth
as one would pluck ripe cherries.

I chewed my words until they broke my teeth,
and lay heavy in my stomach
like forest stones.
I no longer need a path back:
I never left that cottage.

~~~


Original


My childhood lay behind me
in this trail of torn bread
I could no longer retrace.
 
We always ate enough
to remain hungry, our stomachs
waning like the sliver of moon
that sparkled through the branches
of this darkling forest.
 
Even when I saw the food
on her table, I kept gnawing
on the shingle like
a little mouse, little mouse.
 
I still carry the finger bone
I once pressed into her hand
each night, while licking the plates clean.
 
The hunger had crossed the threshold with me,
and remained even 
as her fat melted in the oven.
 
We came back older than our parents
with gems that shone like in the fairy tale
of the girl who had them fall from her mouth
like so many ripe cherries.
 
I chewed my words until they broke
my teeth, and laid heavy in my stomach
like forest stones.
I no longer needed a path back
for I never left that cottage.

[cjchaffin]

My childhood lay behind me
in this trail of torn bread
I could no longer retrace. good start, familiar reference
 
We always ate enough
to remain hungry, our stomachs
waning like the sliver of moon <--"like"
that sparkled through the branches if it's only a sliver of moon, would it really sparkle? a touch cliche and i'm not sure the simile works here
of this darkling forest. i don't care for the use of "darkling" to describe the forest, it seems strange to use it here
 
Even when I saw the food
on her table, I kept gnawing yes!
on the shingle like <--"like"
a little mouse, little mouse. why the repetition here?

 
I still carry the finger bone
I once pressed into her hand
each night, while licking the plates clean. who is licking the plate? this seems unclear to me
 
The hunger had crossed the threshold with me, wordy...how about "Hunger crossed the threshold with me,"
and remained even and remained, even
as her fat melted in the oven.
 
We came back older than our parents
with gems that shone like in the fairy tale <--"like"
of the girl who had them fall from her mouth
like so many ripe cherries. <-- "like" (this whole strophe feels a bit disconnected from the rest of the poem, i get why it's here but it feels disjointed and added on; do you really need it?)
 
I chewed my words until they broke
my teeth, and laid heavy in my stomach yes!!
like forest stones. <--"like"
I no longer needed a path back
for I never left that cottage. solid ending, though a bit predictable. definitely not a dealbreaker though 

hiya Todd. conceptually, i really like this, Hansel & Gretel with a twist and from a unique perspective. there are a few areas that i struggled with, but overall this has good bones (pun intended ) and with some editing could really shine (e.g. you use "like" quite a bit and that's a big stumbling block for me). thanks for posting!

[Mark A Becker]

Hi Todd- Haven't seen much from you lately, so let's have  look....


My childhood lay behind me
in this trail of torn bread
I could no longer retrace.

We always ate enough good turn of the line
to remain hungry, our stomachs
waning like the sliver of moonhmmm?  creates an odd image in my head comparing stomach-moon
that sparkled through the branches
of this darkling forest.darkling forest eh?  seems like the wrong word (darkling)

Even when I saw the food
on her table, I kept gnawing poem re-steadied here
on the shingle like
a little mouse, little mouse.don't get the repeat, repeat

I still carry the finger bone
I once pressed into her hand
each night, while licking the plates clean.can't explain why I like this stanza. But I do.

The hunger had crossed the threshold with me,
and remained even
as her fat melted in the oven. filler stanza for me

We came back older than our parents
with gems that shone like in the fairy tale
of the girl who had them fall from her mouth
like so many ripe cherries.filler stanza again, for me

I chewed my words until they broke
my teeth, and laid heavy in my stomach
like forest stones.
I no longer needed a path back
for I never left that cottage. soft ending, I'm afraid


Not one of your stronger efforts Todd, but it can still hold up with some needed carving.

All that said, good to read you again!
... Mark

[milo]

Hello, Todd.  I am going to reverse my usual trend and thank you for posting first.  It was a pleasure to read.

My childhood lay behind me
in this trail of torn bread
I could no longer retrace.

I think comparing your childhood to the trail of bread is strong.  Normally, the abstraction might bother me but you have it doing double duty here as you instantly lay the scene as well. I think if you could fit it in you could have your childhood /eaten/ by crows like a trail of torn bread.


You have a tense confusion between lay - this

 


We always ate enough
to remain hungry, our stomachs
waning like the sliver of moon
that sparkled through the branches
of this darkling forest.

minor quibbles, but I would like to see "our stomachs" move down a line as well as "waning" replaced with "waned". i also can't help but to notice your sudden switch to the plural pronouns.  The first time I read this, I thought you should have opened with "Our childhood" but decided you intentionally wanted the focus to remain on Hansel.  I can accept that, but the inconsistency is distracting now that you have switched to the plural. I think "sparkled" might be a bit twee but "darkling" fits the tone fine.

 
Even when I saw the food
on her table, I kept gnawing
on the shingle like
a little mouse, little mouse.

"on the shingle like" is a particularly weak line.

 
I still carry the finger bone
I once pressed into her hand
each night, while licking the plates clean.

I like the keeping of the finger bone here.  There is something awkward about your transition in L's 2-3.  "licking plates clean" is cliche but not so bothersome here.

 
The hunger had crossed the threshold with me,
and remained even 
as her fat melted in the oven.

"had" is superfluous
"even" is a particularly bad break.

 
We came back older than our parents
with gems that shone like in the fairy tale
of the girl who had them fall from her mouth
like so many ripe cherries.

So, you have returned to the plural now.
I love the sentiment and the imagery here but you need to clean up some of the diction as it feels wordy and awkward.

 
I chewed my words until they broke
my teeth, and laid heavy in my stomach
like forest stones.
I no longer needed a path back
for I never left that cottage.

I am ambivalent about "broke" here.  of course it is a rather clever line break but it might be just one too many and in the last strophe when you can least afford to distract your readers with gimmicky line breaks.

' . . .like forest stones" is great.
"needed" should be "need"
"laid" should be "lay"


Overall, I think it is a great read.  The moodiness of it, the imagery, many of the wordings are a pleasure to read.  most of my comments are mere editing suggestions that could be cleaned up in a single pass.

once again, thanks for posting, i feel like I have been waiting a long time to read this.

[Quixilated]

Todd,
I LOVE this. I am obsessed with fairy tales and this poem captures the essence of any good Grimm story. There is a feeling of nostalgia, a bit of horror (with the finger bone especially) a touch of beauty and loss. I think your use of "darkling" is appropriate, it works like a time machine to set the stage. It tells me that you are referring to the darker ancient tale, not a shiny new happy ending Disney version. I also really liked the repetition of "Little mouse" for once I had read the second, my internal monologue completed her taunt against my will ... and does every time. I'm not sure it would have the effect only once. Also, true fairy tales are full of that kind of repetition.
I like the reference to the fairy tale of the girl whose kind words turned to jewels. But it feels wedged in. I was looking for other fairy tale references, the stones in the stomach reminded me of little red riding hood and how they filled the wolf's stomach with stones at the end. If there truly are other stories woven through, then maybe smooth the one about the girl whose words became jewels. If there are no others, and I'm just seeing things, then perhaps take it out for having it there makes me look for the others.
I love the hunger gnawing throughout. I don't think I've quite understood the underlying meaning, I think I can feel it, but it hasn't worked its way to the surface of my awareness yet.
One practical confusing point, in one part you say they went home (older than their parents), and then later you say you never left the witch's cottage.
This poem is going to be eating away at me, like a little mouse, little mouse, until I've completely digested it. Again, LOVE it!!!!!
--Quix

My childhood lay behind me
in this trail of torn bread
I could no longer retrace.
 
We always ate enough
to remain hungry, our stomachs
waning like the sliver of moon
that sparkled through the branches
of this darkling forest.
 
Even when I saw the food
on her table, I kept gnawing
on the shingle like
a little mouse, little mouse.
 
I still carry the finger bone
I once pressed into her hand
each night, while licking the plates clean.
 
The hunger had crossed the threshold with me,
and remained even 
as her fat melted in the oven.
 
We came back older than our parents
with gems that shone like in the fairy tale
of the girl who had them fall from her mouth
like so many ripe cherries.
 
I chewed my words until they broke
my teeth, and laid heavy in my stomach
like forest stones.
I no longer needed a path back
for I never left that cottage.

[Grace]

This is brilliant, Todd! The edgy, biting tone to a fairy-tale theme makes it a joy to read aloud. I thought I'd have a go at adding a few thoughts, if you don't mind. Thanks for the read. Grace.

My childhood lay behind me
in this trail of torn bread
I could no longer retrace.
 
We always ate enough
to remain hungry, our stomachs
waning like the sliver of moon-I like this
that sparkled through the branches
of this darkling forest. - sparkled goes well with darkling
 
Even when I saw the food
on her table, I kept gnawing
on the shingle like - Id want the line break after shingle, so like goes to the next line.
a little mouse, little mouse.
 
I still carry the finger bone
I once pressed into her hand
each night, while licking the plates clean.
 
The hunger had crossed the threshold with me,
and remained even 
as her fat melted in the oven. -suggestion is to break after remained.
 
We came back older than our parents
with gems that shone like in the fairy tale
of the girl who had them fall from her mouth
like so many ripe cherries. -not sure about the second like here. Maybe change to 'as'?
 
I chewed my words until they broke
my teeth, and laid heavy in my stomach
like forest stones.
I no longer needed a path back
for I never left that cottage. - great ending!

[just mercedes]

Hi Todd - I like this updating the language of a folk tale. You've put it under a psychological lens. I can't decide whether the narrator is the brother or the sister. I like that.






My childhood lay behind me
in this trail of torn bread
I could no longer retrace.   I don't think this strophe does much for your poem. I think the context is obvious without it, and it sounds very 'telling'.
 
We always ate enough Nice line break
to remain hungry, our stomachs
waning like the sliver of moon
that sparkled through the branches I'm having trouble seeing a stomach sparkling in branches
of this darkling forest. I think you put darkling in to keep playing with the 'ar' sounds. Don't think you need it.
 
Even when I saw the food
on her table, I kept gnawing
on the shingle like
a little mouse, little mouse. Not sure why the repetition, doesn't do anything for me.
 
I still carry the finger bone
I once pressed into her hand I like this part, bone/hand
each night, while licking the plates clean. This image, of pressing while licking, feels a bit strange.

 
The hunger had crossed the threshold with me, What threshold?
and remained even 
as her fat melted in the oven.
 
We came back older than our parents The reintroduction of the sibling is sudden.
with gems that shone like in the fairy tale
of the girl who had them fall from her mouth
like so many ripe cherries. I'm breaking under the load of similes. What's wrong with a good old-fashioned metaphor? This strophe doesn't really add anything.
 
I chewed my words until they broke
my teeth, and laid heavy in my stomach powerful
like forest stones. I wonder if you need this line?
I no longer needed a path back
for I never left that cottage. I like the ending here - though I wonder if 'needed' should be 'need'

[Leanne]

My childhood lay behind me -- this is an oddly ambiguous opener.  If childhood once lay behind, wouldn't it still?  In which case, you would probably choose to use "lies" instead -- so this leads me to believe that either this is an accidental slip of grammar or time is not following that standard arrow here and what was past has become something other
in this trail of torn bread -- "torn bread" is a strong choice over "breadcrumbs", not only because it avoids the cliche trap but also because of the violent connotations of "torn"
I could no longer retrace. -- again we have the grammatical oddity of "could" -- does this imply that he would if it were possible?
 
We always ate enough
to remain hungry, our stomachs -- good break on "enough", and an excellent near-paradox
waning like the sliver of moon
that sparkled through the branches -- "sparkled" coupled with "darkling" seems too much of a choice of sonics over substance -- I have difficulty with the use of a simile comparing stomachs to something sparkling
of this darkling forest.
 
Even when I saw the food
on her table, I kept gnawing
on the shingle like
a little mouse, little mouse. -- this stanza fascinates me.  I see the mouse as a scavenger, occupying space only at the very slender mercy of its rightful inhabitant, and yet the table full of food implies that it is there for the taking, but rejected.  To me, this represents the offering of knowledge and the choice of ignorance. 
 
I still carry the finger bone
I once pressed into her hand
each night, while licking the plates clean. -- I can't help but think that the finger bone is his own, somehow removed, now carried as a kind of penance.  This would indicate a tentative but still close relationship between child and mother, or prisoner/captor, student/mentor.  
 
The hunger had crossed the threshold with me, -- a physical crossing, but not psychological, and it's in the mind that reality dwells
and remained even -- "even" gives a nice ambiguity as a break, as both "equal" and "still"
as her fat melted in the oven. -- the fat she cooked with, or the fat on her body -- again, lovely open meaning
 
We came back older than our parents -- this brings me back to the idea of knowledge/ experience
with gems that shone like in the fairy tale
of the girl who had them fall from her mouth
like so many ripe cherries. -- too many "likes" here -- you are running over your simile allowance!
 
I chewed my words until they broke -- this imparts a strong sense of regret, words spoken in the fullness of youthful brilliance without regard for feelings, and impossible to recall
my teeth, and laid heavy in my stomach
like forest stones.
I no longer needed a path back -- this is a nice bookending, but the "for" on the next line weakens it somewhat.  I would suggest 

I no longer needed a path back:
I never left that cottage

for I never left that cottage.

[Todd]

I have received a multitude of good critiques, and I appreciate the time everyone spent with the poem. I'm still processing through everyone's comments, and will address them individually soon when I'm ready with the first pass at the revision. You've all given me a lot to consider and think about. I am truly thankful for the help.

Best,

Todd

[Todd]

Okay everyone, I'm ready to put the first revision up. I considered everything that was said, and even if I didn't take the suggestions you all made me think quite a bit about the choices I made.

I addressed the overabundance of similes. Hopefully, the new revision clears this up. CJ (christopher), at first I thought when I read your critique you were saying oh I LIKE this line . I was thinking: I wonder why. Then I said, oh I'm annoying him with simile. I've turned into a 1983 Valley Girl. Thank you for everyone who pointed that out. I hope I've fixed some of it.

CJ: Thank you for the critique. I appreciate you especially pointing out where the poem starting causing you issues in its wordiness or repetitious likes mentioned above.

Mark: Thank you for your comments. Hopefully, I've redeemed some of the filler parts you called out. The truth is most of my poems start out pretty loose before I start editing--so, in some ways nothing is my best work in early drafts. I'm happy to get the call outs of what works and didn't work for each reader, and I appreciate you caring enough about making the poem better to do just that.

Milo: I'm glad you liked the content and that it connected with you. You gave me some very helpful things to consider. Hopefully, the revision doesn't kill what worked well for you. I very much appreciate the encouragement and mostly the help.

Quix: I'm glad you like fairy tale poems. I do too. I have quite a number of them that I've written over the years. Yes, you saw what I intended. I don't know if I fully addressed your issue with the girl who spoke gems, but maybe I did. I tend to mash certain fairy tales together in my poems. My little red riding hood one mashed in the three little pigs and I had one friend up in arms that I "can't do that to my readers". I was expecting to much, maybe so, but I'm glad you caught the references. Thematically, I wanted them in there. Thank you again.

Grace: I appreciate the comments and the critique. You again helped with some line break decisions and the entire simile thing. Thank you for weighing in and spending the time with the poem.

Mercedes: I weighed your advice heavily, and while all of it may not have appeared in this revision, it may as the poem continues to develop (I'm usually 30-40 revisions on most poems). I appreciated the candor, your engagement in the details, and you helped me get to the next step.

Leanne: I love how you can break into the thematic content. You gave a lot of good advice, but you also have a nice way of expressing the need for ambiguity in poetry. I hope I didn't kill too much of that, but you always remind me that while clarity is good--it can kill a poem. I weighed and used your thoughts to guide the revision.

Whether I lot or a little to any person here, I used the advice all together to take this next step. Thank you all.

Best,

Todd

[Todd]

I had a lot of formatting issues trying to paste the revision. I retyped it in.

[Mark A Becker]

Todd-
On of the things that I appreciate most about your presence on this site is your complete thoroughness; you are a one-of-a kind in that respect. Your comments and critiques are in-depth, accurate, and admirable.

I an quite impressed by the attitude that you bring to all of the forums, and it really is an honor to read your poetry and critiques.

Regarding the comment that you addressed to me that said, " The truth is most of my poems start out pretty loose before I start editing--so, in some ways nothing is my best work in early drafts. I'm happy to get the call outs of what works and didn't work for each reader, and I appreciate you caring enough about making the poem better to do just that.


I have the exact same tendency to let loose in the early stages so that I can hear from others where improvements can be made. I find that to be an extremely helpful method for moving my work along. I am especially pleased when folks point out precisely the areas that I am struggling with.

So, once again, thanks for your presence on this site: it is truly valued, and I know that others think so as well. None of us take every bit of advice that is offered, yet each bit opens up new possibilities for consideration.

Thanks for helping keep the pen rise above the muck, while letting us roll around in it gleefully!

Good bean you are. (I just thought that somebody ought to say that). Truly,
... Mark

[Todd]

Todd-
On of the things that I appreciate most about your presence on this site is your complete thoroughness;  you are a one-of-a kind in that respect. Your comments and critiques are in-depth, accurate, and admirable.

I an quite impressed by the attitude that you bring to all of the forums, and it really is an honor to read your poetry and critiques.

Regarding the comment that you addressed to me that said, " The truth is most of my poems start out pretty loose before I start editing--so, in some ways nothing is my best work in early drafts. I'm happy to get the call outs of what works and didn't work for each reader, and I appreciate you caring enough about making the poem better to do just that.


I have the exact same tendency to let loose in the early stages so that I can hear from others where improvements can be made.  I find that to be an extremely helpful method for moving my work along.  I am especially pleased when folks point out precisely the areas that I am struggling with.

So, once again, thanks for your presence on this site:  it is truly valued, and I know that others think so as well.  None of us take every bit of advice that is offered, yet each bit opens up new  possibilities for consideration.

Thanks for helping keep the pen rise above the muck, while letting us roll around in it gleefully!

Good bean you are.  (I just thought that somebody ought to say that). Truly,
... Mark

Well thank you, Mark. That's all very kind of you to say.