Prophetic and useless
#1


If I took care of myself the way I care for you
I wouldn't be crying right now
If you loved yourself the way that I do
You wouldn't be dying right now

shame is my name
humble and tame
lips, eyes and legs
as you lay before her

shamed and estranged
she gave you her name
worthless and blamed
you lie for her

lifeless and lame
you gave her your name
strife which you crave
as you die before her

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#2
(05-01-2015, 03:29 PM)Jesstice Wrote:  

If I took care of myself the way I care for you
I wouldn't be crying right now
If you loved yourself the way that I do
You wouldn't be dying right now

shame is my name
humble and tame
lips, eyes and legs
as you lay before her

shamed and estranged
she gave you her name
worthless and blamed
you lie for her

lifeless and lame
you gave her your name
strife which you crave
as you die before her

Hello jes,
welcome back, welcome back, you edited on line welcome back.  I am being facetious Smile Sorry. I do it myself. To the poem. The theme is buried in the repetitive form, which in itself seems purposeless but deliberate.I cannot see that it adds to the meaning although as a reflection of the character's emotional state it may indicative. I say "indicative" and "character" because I note that you removed some of the blatant repeats after your initial posting...that tells me two thing.  One.You, too, thought the device a little blatant. Two. You could get the same "message" across without the need to repeat  quite so much.
Finally, please punctuate to clarity. It is never clever to omit punctuation. Even when the reader trusts the grammatical ability of the writer ( and often not even then, even with "respected" poets) punctuation will only ever enhance meaning.
I talk about meaning a lot. This piece mystifies me more because it is firmly steered... but to where?

Best
tectak
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#3
Thank you! If I had command of punctuation the way I have command of my walk I'd use it. In stead I have command of punctuation as I swim and that means I stay out of the water a lot! I will make the adjustments. YES, I edited online... BUSTED!! Smile Smile - Good to be back. I don't fully know where this piece is going but I think I understand what you mean by firmly steered.

Thank you as always!
Jess
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#4
Hi Jesstice,

I think this poem would benefit from more imagery. For instance:

shame is my name
humble and tame

Can you think of a way to show the reader these ideas of shame, humility and tameness with a picture? I don't want to fix anything in your mind by using these lines as an example. Here are a few similes to illustrate what I'm getting at:

Lonely

Wordsworth, "I wandered lonely as a cloud" The image enhances the idea of loneliness.

Beautiful

Byron, "She walks in beauty like the night"

Expensive

For a more direct comparison with a metaphor, let's use Groucho Marx, "A hospital bed is a parked taxi with the meter running." 

Telling the reader characteristics is never as powerful as showing them these characteristics through imagery.

Just something to consider.

Best,

Todd

(05-01-2015, 03:29 PM)Jesstice Wrote:  
If I took care of myself the way I care for you
I wouldn't be crying right now
If you loved yourself the way that I do
You wouldn't be dying right now
shame is my name
humble and tame
lips, eyes and legs
as you lay before her
shamed and estranged
she gave you her name
worthless and blamed
you lie for her
lifeless and lame
you gave her your name
strife which you crave
as you die before her
The secret of poetry is cruelty.--Jon Anderson
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#5
This poem is quite the read, but in a bad way. Took me about six read-throughs just to get any sense out of it -- and even with those, what sense I got is as vague and bland as most of the lines (though there is a hint of the concrete betrayed by the emotional context of the first stanza). To qualify my woes:

The first stanza, though a bit off in some of its lines' symmetry, is clear in establishing what the poem wants the reader to feel: a sort of cathartic sympathy for the speaker, who has an unrequited love for a self-destructive person(a). The second stanza continues along this same train, and a hint of the specific is given by the seventh line, a (I'm guessing sensual) list of body-parts. But then, it falls apart, with the third stanza making barely any sense (Who is the one shamed and estranged? Why would "she", who at this point seems to be a temptress, be shamed and estranged at giving "you" her name? Who blamed her (or you) in the eleventh line?), and with the fourth following suit (So he's dying because he lied for her? Why -- or how, since she is never really elaborated on, nor the nature of her relationship with him? What does "strife which you crave" mean?). 

I blame a bad sense of direction for this. As noted, there's obviously something specific going on that's the inspiration for this poem -- the problem is, the poet focuses too much on expressing directly her impressions on them, rather than translating those impressions into something understandable. And impressions are themselves nigh-impossible to directly express, especially in poetry -- you have to be direct with what you're saying, either in direct narration of events (though that, if done entirely, would be prose), or through images and symbols (and sounds, if you're wont to believe in the intrinsic value of words), trying as much as possible to avoid the generic, the bland, and the vague. Also, again as noted, a lot of the ideas don't make sense -- with the very subjective focus on impressions, you fail to give the bigger picture, and the pieces lack the backing needed to stand on their own. And for that, the remedy is the same -- be direct, and follow a discernible internal framework for what you write (that is, for every idea, line, word that you put in there, you have to make sure it relates to something within the work, even if that something is a deliberate sense of disorder). 
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#6
Music 
I LOVE the first stanza, as i read it as a caretaker talking to their charge who is self destructive. Maybe im just projecting my own meaning onto the piece, but still. Powerful. However, i lose the sense of power throughout the rest of the poem. Maybe my interpretation is just super wrong so i started off reading it wrong, but the rest just doesnt make a whole lot of sense. I really like your cut down style (im not one for many epics), but i would think of reading through the piece as if it were prose, and adding punctuation, imagery, and extra words where you think it helps the meaning. Very powerful start to a piece with a deep meaning buried under the wording Thumbsup
Sometimes I feel like writing poetry and sometimes I watch Netflix. No judging.
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#7
The first stanza was relatively clear I think, I got the sense of an unrequited love, or the subject of your affection does not love you back along with the destruction of that results.
However, I do agree with some of the comments above, that the direction of the poem definitely got lost as the stanzas move on.
lips, eyes and legs
as you lay before her (I sense that you are trying to paint an imagery here, but simply having a list just didn't seem very poetic)

I also got the feeling that you are trying to force some of the rhyming here, just the the repetitive using of "shame" and "tame"

The poem of quite repetitive overall, of the concept of giving name, shame, and worthless. I think there is a specific experience that you are trying describe here, maybe focus on more of the details of the experience, rather just than those vague feeling of that experience, that way it will resonate with the audience more... (I personally think)
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#8
Jesstice,

The first stanza is clear enough. The rest just seems like filler. I don't really see much point in it. Never seen a pink cat before.

Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
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