Why Am I Silent? - title change from Why You are Silent
#21
(04-08-2015, 10:29 PM)LorettaYoung Wrote:  
(04-08-2015, 08:14 PM)Grace Wrote:  
(04-03-2015, 09:05 AM)LorettaYoung Wrote:  Why You Are Silent
Dark shadows call.
Black curtains fall.
My knees are weak.
Why don't You speak?
Why are You silent?
Then diamonds dress my destiny.
Blessed clouds of mist enlighten me.
Dark fades to light when angels sing.,
and grace the grand and little things.
Why am I silent?
Again, the depth of darkness falls.
Days wearing black make frequent calls.
Dark spirits stalk and reap their prey.
A smirking demon creeps my way.
Why are You silent?

Hi Loretta,
The title of the poem is "why you are silent".  Im not sure the poem explains why, as the person would perhaps have to break the silence and speak, in order to give an answer.  
Though  I can relate to the idea of the loneliness of silence between two people causing one of them to mentally go off at a tangent and  find  some  light to "grace the grand and little things", to make the  lack of communication bearable, "darkness fades to light when angels sing" (S2, L3), bothers me. The narrator appears to be celebrating  "blessed clouds of mist" and angels as her reality. So she's either religious or mentally cracking up because of the silence. Why not add further stanzas where the conflict is resolved and the silence becomes a not needing to speak.
I like the contrast between light and dark in the poem.  "A smirking demon creeps my way",  evokes an atmosphere well. Thank you for the read of this. Grace :-)
;
Hi Grace: Sorry to answer late, but I just found you response and I appreciate it.  When I speak of You, Him, He, etc. capitalization of the first letter would indicate God; where, to anyone who has studied the Bible to any degree.
Perhaps I should have said "Why is God Silent": I realize more people would understand THAT better; which doesn't address though His/Her existence/. The "silence of God" is brought up in Revelations 8:1, and has been in theological debate in various forms.  As simply as I can put it, for those who believe in a supernatural existence;
S1 tragedy befall, why doesn't God answer the call for help; or let it happen. S2: then we are blessed; but are not thankful, "Why am I silent. So in S3 again dark comes; Is it because when things get good in S2 we are not thankful for what we cried out for in S1. There have been many proposed answers, questions; if God exists why does he let bad things happen? It is a complex question in theology. Even someone who believes in an invisible world does not go about speaking in those terms; we exist on earth in a society; the terminology speaks to the inner thoughts of people who believe in more than what they can see visably. I enjoyed your comment, I kind of like the smirking demon myself; although, this is not my spoken language. Thank you very much for taking the time to read and reply.Best Loretta

(04-08-2015, 05:10 PM)rayheinrich Wrote:  Yes, we must give credit to our metaphoric roots.

Still, the photographic vision that "dark shadows calling" inspires,
must really be given more credence.

Further: Since 'dark" needs 'light' to exist, it would be good to add some.

Hi Ray: Thank you, I think metaphors can inspire as well, by comparison an issue can be illumated. I loved your idea of not waking to Ellysian fields, and the cat pissing; I loved your idea of the Elysian Fields and the cat; I think a much more enlightening approach than I took. It would be a better approach, more readable, possibly b (if etter understood with concrete imagery to explain. I will remember that (if I ever have the nerve to venture to this subject again) Appreciate it very much. Best Loretta

(04-08-2015, 06:23 AM)tectak Wrote:  
(04-07-2015, 01:15 AM)LorettaYoung Wrote:  Hi tectak: Yes, spiritual talk from Gabriel's garden. I made that up...don't include it in your explanationTalk familiar to many who believe they exist not only in a seen world, but an invisible one Sez who? Who are these "many"?Are they credible? Are they sane? I have  never heard of them, these "many" people who "believe" they exist in an "invisible" world. Surely, that practically defines non-existence? What ARE you referring to? You are.making this up.on the hoof.; filled with good or bad spirits; that influence life; the bad times referred to as darkness in some form, and light the good. The title is "Why You Are Silent"  because the last line of S2 "Why am I silent": is given theologically as one answer to the question referred to as "God's Silence" What IS the question? OK...here's a really good question...I refer you to God's Silence. Ah, well, the answer, theologically of course, is a pink slice of pumpernickel. Wha? is a "We are never grateful enough".  The first stanza is supposed to represent a frantic crying out for help. Help comes in S2, the clouds of mist are "blessed", in this language What language? Ah, you mean gobbledygook...of course...it all makes sense now. Not, therefore can enlighten. Not me I would have thought the demon's reaped what they stalked. See end
This is the type of language and images of people who believe strongly that there is an invisible world affecting them. Who? Who? Is it the same people who believe strongly that we all live on a black-eye pea in the broth of God? Please don't say yes because I just made it up.in That it is a bad poem I will own up to. I could speak to the issue in concrete terms in a paper, written from an assumption of the existence of an invisible deity; and if so, all the other reasons given for His silence. I would have hoped that S1 being so short and rapid would relay the idea of a frantic call. Can you give me an idea of how to approach the subject of a possible invisible deity to whom people cry out to other than using the typical language of that culture; ie: angels, demons, blessings, light, dark, etc. to make it better. Also, considering that many people are not familiar with this kind of thinking.  Thank goodness...or the lunatics would take over the asylum. If you want to write this kind of esoteric mumbo-jumbo read about it in depth before you write about it...it is called psychology....and frankly, and all is opinion, it is 99% garbage BUT 1% stunning enlightenment. Prizes are given for those who can spot that 1%. I cannot.
OK, now I know weak knees is also a cliché, even if it does imply something. Yes. Weak knees
Dark shadows can call to temptation, sin or with general destruction. Sez who? I don't even know what you mean. Give examples...or with general destruction(?)
The last two lines say the same thing because as I mentioned, it was supposed to be a desperate cry; You mean like "Help" followed by "Help". Desperate, yep, desperate. Try to show not tell...your way simply says that to indicate desperation al you need to do is cry helphelphelphelphelp until the required degree of desperation is indicated.the topic of The Silence of God has been widely discussed. Quite That I do not make a good case, or poem of it is another story. Do you know about the Seventh Seal from Revelations; which has been spoken of as the silence of God. Have you seem Ingmar Bergman's movie, The Seventh Seal? yesyesyes...and?
S2, "Then" supposedly represents a later time. And I spoke to "blessed" clouds enlightening. Wot bloody clouds? Who blessed them and why? I have no idea what you are talking about...should I? There is a gap in my education...my ignorance of blessed enlightening clouds is complete. Strangely, I do not feel deprived.
S3: Yes, Dark cannot fade! Yes, the idea battered again by darkness, because "we are never grateful enough"; when goodness called; the person was silent; not thankful, did not speak.
Lastly, please keep in mind my lack of education in this field, the ones I wrote away from this site without help; I had not noticed. Looky loretta, I cannot write an authoratative piece of prose on the rise of Hinduism in Bradford so I don't. There is a lesson here.
believe it or not, but I don't lie; got better than average ratings on other sites: which I agree says nothing about
my lack of quality, or that of other sites, We agree on something BUT, I am trying to incorporate knowledge I am gaining here in new ones I am writing; while here assessing the problems of the older ones, and am very grateful for critique Beg Theoretically, what other approaches could I use.to poetically propose that one reason for God's Silence is a lack of gratitude?  It might be a good idea to consider whether the existence of god depends upon belief in god, or whether god exists even if no one at all believes. Let me know when they let you out. Concrete terminology to address the invisible? No need to be sorry. Best Loretta
Loretta...it is the WRONG word.

To reap (verb)
to cut (wheat, rye, etc.) with a sickle or other implement or a machine, as in harvest.
2.
to gather or take (a crop, harvest, etc.).

Origin Expand
before 900; Middle English repen, Old English repan, riopan; cognate with Middle Low German repen to ripple (flax); akin to ripe

Do not use words as if they had whatever meaning you wish them to have. Check the meaning once you have chosen the word and change it if it is wrong...but remember the meaning for next time.I find at least one word a month that I have been using wrongly for years.
Best,
tectak


Hi tectak: I'll have to answer in two different places because of so much writing.

1- Many people: yes, evanagelists, charismatics, various sects of religions; even in documentaries of the spiritual beliefs of ancient and remaining tribal thinking.  In the visions of people on hallucinogens.  I have studied/researched the bible for 12 years; heard the speak personally, in conferences, in sermons, however, even people of these persuasions don't wander about apeaking of demons, angels perhaps, laughing. As to sanity, I have no medical reason to doubt my own; except for poor choices at times, I speak in concrete terms, in my concrete work, making concrete decisions. However, many people do attribute various occurrences in their lives to unseen forces.
2- The question as to existence as more than meets the human eye has been debated in metaphysics. Do you really believe your own concrete vision is all to existence; considering discussing existence, possible forms, in the universe. Apparently, the big bang theory has been debunked; Invisible to your eyes does not equate to non-existence.
3-The question is why is God silent. There are too many theological assumptive explanations for this; this one little poems only suggest one, INGRATITUDE.  As to the many other, that's a big subject of debate and study,
4-The people I know who speak this language do so only in their thinking or to a person they know will understand; they would speak of good and bad spirits in what you see only as empty air. Of spiritual warfare of those spirits; proposing one way of positive outcome to be "gratefulness".
5-The people I know personally from my studies; generally are not at all lunatics; as a matter of fact; they are among the more successful and stable people I have encountered along the way. Have good jobs, are calm in the face of problems, charitable.  There are lunatics however, who are taken over by illusion; and insanity.  But the people I speak of are in control of what they think and make a choice to it.  I'm not preaching, just speaking to an area of study.
6- Blessings: clouds, mist that disperse them are metaphors. It's not only mere chance; people work at things, advised biblically, and lo and behold, eye open, one may see unusual blessings.
7- Help, Help: have you not encountered at time where all roofs are caving in; never wanted to scream help? To some: why are you silent God in the fact of such dire misery; help, help, yes, I would love to show that WELL, if I knew how. I tried short quick rhyming meter? Guess that didn't work.
8- Sorry, I don't get how the rise of Hinduism relates to my deficient study in writing?
9-The Seventh Seal: theological area for discussion of the silence of God. As it relates to the movie; when the knight if forestalling death by playing chess, he enters a church; talks about wishing he could know there is a God through his senses,
he say something like, but he hides in silence.  He is facing death, wants to hear all will be well with a concrete manifestation of God's existence when he does die.  All of this occurs within the metaphor of the black plague, as people die they are doing all kinds of things, flaggelants, to get blessed, hear God
10-Lastly, gratefully, I have never been in an asylum, ecept for observing while studying for my psy degree.
11-Yes, I understand about the word Reap now

Concluding, I think theorizing may depend on openness and discovery; and a persons area or areas of interest and investigation and level of curiosity.  Still, I know it's not a good poem. Thanks tectak for all your thoughts and time. I think I have more to answer below. Best Loretta

(04-08-2015, 04:34 PM)tectak Wrote:  
(04-08-2015, 06:50 AM)LorettaYoung Wrote:  tectak: thank you for the word correction, and showing me why this poem is dead. Best Loretta
Bring the concept alive by making it your own.
S1 Third person. "You" trip and skip through life as if it was your right. All is well. You do not speak to god...not even to thank him for the great gift bestowed upon you.Why?
S2 First person generic "we". Life takes twists and turns. We suffer tragedies, we lose friends, we become ill. We speak to god and ask for help, strength, succour, peace. He does not answer. Why.
S3 First person "I" . God permits famine, war, plagues, great disasters. It is the will of god. I never question god. Why?

Cut out all the pseudo psycho stuff, all the myth immersed side issues involving obscure religiosity; don't try to impress with half-formed opinion or half-firmed references to obscure wiki wanderings. Write what you know you  know, not what you would like the reader to think you know. This is a big site with a lot of intellect sloshing around. We could both drown in it. Stay on your own boat as most of us do. When you see an opportunity coming over the horizon, jump ship if it is close enough...swimming is for fish.
Best,
tectak

Hello again: There is a book called "Why Do Good People Suffer", can't remember the pastors' name who wrote it. As mentioned I have studied (been in the boat) in theology and psychology; and have heard many proposed reasons for God's non-intervention, or theory on the silence of God.; if one assumes that existence, but if one does believe; it is certainly part of existence that exists on a plane invisible to us. S1: my inept attempt to describe desperation, asking why God does not intervene. S2. Good times. If one asks for God in S1, why does he not appreciate Him in S2. "Why am I Silent". Many people are always questioning God. Maybe the person in S3 will finally realize that God is Silent, oops, I was blessed by clouds
and did not give thanks: perhaps.  People who believe are usually involved in debating the divine reasons for good and bad circumstances.  There are sp many proposed answers; and it depends also on the religion practiced. In this write I proposed one answer taken from the New testament concerning Jesus' directions. To make it my own I'd have to write a book; Why is,
assuming existence, He Silent: sin, selfishness, anger, unforgiveness , greed, lust, lack of prayer, IMGRATEFI;MES (here) and on and on. And I am NO preacher; presenting a point of view, in an non understandable manner, in a lacing poem. This, is an enlightening education for me.  Thanks again for your insights. Best Loretta

Hi loretta,
dissection of this poem of three stanzas, five lines per stanza, with repeated pairs leaves  about ten lines to  shoehorn a wholes hypothesis on god into. That is the problem. To be  rationally fair to you I have made the content of this piece far  more of an issue than I normally would...and see where it has got meSmile
To get back to the poetry  I would ask that you concentrate on your clear mandate expressed in your own point 3 above, even though as a tenet it is moot. As I remember 99% of worship is thanking the lord for one thing or another. "God is silent" because he is having a hissy fit because we never thank him for the good times. Yep, I guess you could get that across in ten lines...but only if you grab the core metaphor and go with it.
To explain away a short piece of poetry by bringing in a whole cartload of jumbled hypotheses and evangelical myths, then to allude to some equally fictional movie does rather leave the reader floundering about knee deep in nuance and nonsense.
I only ever ask for clarity...that does not mean ditching complexity or texture.  Readers will "interpret"  poetry using their own spectacles...provided what they see is written in a language they understand ( I could not read anything clearly expressed in Urdu) and uses known structure, form and word application.
Title change good. That really is it.
Best,
tectak
Reply
#22
(04-09-2015, 05:16 PM)tectak Wrote:  
(04-08-2015, 10:29 PM)LorettaYoung Wrote:  
(04-08-2015, 08:14 PM)Grace Wrote:  
Hi Loretta,
The title of the poem is "why you are silent".  Im not sure the poem explains why, as the person would perhaps have to break the silence and speak, in order to give an answer.  
Though  I can relate to the idea of the loneliness of silence between two people causing one of them to mentally go off at a tangent and  find  some  light to "grace the grand and little things", to make the  lack of communication bearable, "darkness fades to light when angels sing" (S2, L3), bothers me. The narrator appears to be celebrating  "blessed clouds of mist" and angels as her reality. So she's either religious or mentally cracking up because of the silence. Why not add further stanzas where the conflict is resolved and the silence becomes a not needing to speak.
I like the contrast between light and dark in the poem.  "A smirking demon creeps my way",  evokes an atmosphere well. Thank you for the read of this. Grace :-)
;
Hi Grace: Sorry to answer late, but I just found you response and I appreciate it.  When I speak of You, Him, He, etc. capitalization of the first letter would indicate God; where, to anyone who has studied the Bible to any degree.
Perhaps I should have said "Why is God Silent": I realize more people would understand THAT better; which doesn't address though His/Her existence/. The "silence of God" is brought up in Revelations 8:1, and has been in theological debate in various forms.  As simply as I can put it, for those who believe in a supernatural existence;
S1 tragedy befall, why doesn't God answer the call for help; or let it happen. S2: then we are blessed; but are not thankful, "Why am I silent. So in S3 again dark comes; Is it because when things get good in S2 we are not thankful for what we cried out for in S1. There have been many proposed answers, questions; if God exists why does he let bad things happen? It is a complex question in theology. Even someone who believes in an invisible world does not go about speaking in those terms; we exist on earth in a society; the terminology speaks to the inner thoughts of people who believe in more than what they can see visably. I enjoyed your comment, I kind of like the smirking demon myself; although, this is not my spoken language. Thank you very much for taking the time to read and reply.Best Loretta

(04-08-2015, 05:10 PM)rayheinrich Wrote:  Yes, we must give credit to our metaphoric roots.

Still, the photographic vision that "dark shadows calling" inspires,
must really be given more credence.

Further: Since 'dark" needs 'light' to exist, it would be good to add some.

Hi Ray: Thank you, I think metaphors can inspire as well, by comparison an issue can be illumated. I loved your idea of not waking to Ellysian fields, and the cat pissing; I loved your idea of the Elysian Fields and the cat; I think a much more enlightening approach than I took. It would be a better approach, more readable, possibly b (if etter understood with concrete imagery to explain. I will remember that (if I ever have the nerve to venture to this subject again) Appreciate it very much. Best Loretta

(04-08-2015, 06:23 AM)tectak Wrote:  Loretta...it is the WRONG word.

To reap (verb)
to cut (wheat, rye, etc.) with a sickle or other implement or a machine, as in harvest.
2.
to gather or take (a crop, harvest, etc.).

Origin Expand
before 900; Middle English repen, Old English repan, riopan; cognate with Middle Low German repen to ripple (flax); akin to ripe

Do not use words as if they had whatever meaning you wish them to have. Check the meaning once you have chosen the word and change it if it is wrong...but remember the meaning for next time.I find at least one word a month that I have been using wrongly for years.
Best,
tectak


Hi tectak: I'll have to answer in two different places because of so much writing.

1- Many people: yes, evanagelists, charismatics, various sects of religions; even in documentaries of the spiritual beliefs of ancient and remaining tribal thinking.  In the visions of people on hallucinogens.  I have studied/researched the bible for 12 years; heard the speak personally, in conferences, in sermons, however, even people of these persuasions don't wander about apeaking of demons, angels perhaps, laughing. As to sanity, I have no medical reason to doubt my own; except for poor choices at times, I speak in concrete terms, in my concrete work, making concrete decisions. However, many people do attribute various occurrences in their lives to unseen forces.
2- The question as to existence as more than meets the human eye has been debated in metaphysics. Do you really believe your own concrete vision is all to existence; considering discussing existence, possible forms, in the universe. Apparently, the big bang theory has been debunked; Invisible to your eyes does not equate to non-existence.
3-The question is why is God silent. There are too many theological assumptive explanations for this; this one little poems only suggest one, INGRATITUDE.  As to the many other, that's a big subject of debate and study,
4-The people I know who speak this language do so only in their thinking or to a person they know will understand; they would speak of good and bad spirits in what you see only as empty air. Of spiritual warfare of those spirits; proposing one way of positive outcome to be "gratefulness".
5-The people I know personally from my studies; generally are not at all lunatics; as a matter of fact; they are among the more successful and stable people I have encountered along the way. Have good jobs, are calm in the face of problems, charitable.  There are lunatics however, who are taken over by illusion; and insanity.  But the people I speak of are in control of what they think and make a choice to it.  I'm not preaching, just speaking to an area of study.
6- Blessings: clouds, mist that disperse them are metaphors. It's not only mere chance; people work at things, advised biblically, and lo and behold, eye open, one may see unusual blessings.
7- Help, Help: have you not encountered at time where all roofs are caving in; never wanted to scream help? To some: why are you silent God in the fact of such dire misery; help, help, yes, I would love to show that WELL, if I knew how. I tried short quick rhyming meter? Guess that didn't work.
8- Sorry, I don't get how the rise of Hinduism relates to my deficient study in writing?
9-The Seventh Seal: theological area for discussion of the silence of God. As it relates to the movie; when the knight if forestalling death by playing chess, he enters a church; talks about wishing he could know there is a God through his senses,
he say something like, but he hides in silence.  He is facing death, wants to hear all will be well with a concrete manifestation of God's existence when he does die.  All of this occurs within the metaphor of the black plague, as people die they are doing all kinds of things, flaggelants, to get blessed, hear God
10-Lastly, gratefully, I have never been in an asylum, ecept for observing while studying for my psy degree.
11-Yes, I understand about the word Reap now

Concluding, I think theorizing may depend on openness and discovery; and a persons area or areas of interest and investigation and level of curiosity.  Still, I know it's not a good poem. Thanks tectak for all your thoughts and time. I think I have more to answer below. Best Loretta

(04-08-2015, 04:34 PM)tectak Wrote:  Bring the concept alive by making it your own.
S1 Third person. "You" trip and skip through life as if it was your right. All is well. You do not speak to god...not even to thank him for the great gift bestowed upon you.Why?
S2 First person generic "we". Life takes twists and turns. We suffer tragedies, we lose friends, we become ill. We speak to god and ask for help, strength, succour, peace. He does not answer. Why.
S3 First person "I" . God permits famine, war, plagues, great disasters. It is the will of god. I never question god. Why?

Cut out all the pseudo psycho stuff, all the myth immersed side issues involving obscure religiosity; don't try to impress with half-formed opinion or half-firmed references to obscure wiki wanderings. Write what you know you  know, not what you would like the reader to think you know. This is a big site with a lot of intellect sloshing around. We could both drown in it. Stay on your own boat as most of us do. When you see an opportunity coming over the horizon, jump ship if it is close enough...swimming is for fish.
Best,
tectak

Hello again: There is a book called "Why Do Good People Suffer", can't remember the pastors' name who wrote it. As mentioned I have studied (been in the boat) in theology and psychology; and have heard many proposed reasons for God's non-intervention, or theory on the silence of God.; if one assumes that existence, but if one does believe; it is certainly part of existence that exists on a plane invisible to us. S1: my inept attempt to describe desperation, asking why God does not intervene. S2. Good times. If one asks for God in S1, why does he not appreciate Him in S2. "Why am I Silent". Many people are always questioning God. Maybe the person in S3 will finally realize that God is Silent, oops, I was blessed by clouds
and did not give thanks: perhaps.  People who believe are usually involved in debating the divine reasons for good and bad circumstances.  There are sp many proposed answers; and it depends also on the religion practiced. In this write I proposed one answer taken from the New testament concerning Jesus' directions. To make it my own I'd have to write a book; Why is,
assuming existence, He Silent: sin, selfishness, anger, unforgiveness , greed, lust, lack of prayer, IMGRATEFI;MES (here) and on and on. And I am NO preacher; presenting a point of view, in an non understandable manner, in a lacing poem. This, is an enlightening education for me.  Thanks again for your insights. Best Loretta

Hi loretta,
dissection of this poem of three stanzas, five lines per stanza, with repeated pairs leaves  about ten lines to  shoehorn a wholes hypothesis on god into. That is the problem. To be  rationally fair to you I have made the content of this piece far  more of an issue than I normally would...and see where it has got meSmile
To get back to the poetry  I would ask that you concentrate on your clear mandate expressed in your own point 3 above, even though as a tenet it is moot. As I remember 99% of worship is thanking the lord for one thing or another. "God is silent" because he is having a hissy fit because we never thank him for the good times. Yep, I guess you could get that across in ten lines...but only if you grab the core metaphor and go with it.
To explain away a short piece of poetry by bringing in a whole cartload of jumbled hypotheses and evangelical myths, then to allude to some equally fictional movie does rather leave the reader floundering about knee deep in nuance and nonsense.
I only ever ask for clarity...that does not mean ditching complexity or texture.  Readers will "interpret"  poetry using their own spectacles...provided what they see is written in a language they understand ( I could not read anything clearly expressed in Urdu) and uses known structure, form and word application.
Title change good. That really is it.
Best,
tectak


tectak: your point is very clear now: there is a limited subset to relate to this language, and there was not texture, complexity lost, as a poem, although the topic, His silence, is a big question, many theories. Something to think about; especially a metaphor.  Glad to put this to rest, and appreciate your help very much. Best Loretta
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