Michael Green – edit 0.01 (title change)

[Erthona]

Michael Green – edit 0.01  (title change)
 
Had a friend name of Michael Green,
he was hung up on Henry Miller.
He liked to write verse obscene
and wanted to be a gangster poet;
long before rap
and gangster wannabees
who put out a lot of fairy tale crap;
no real life too them.
 
Michael and me, we paid our dues,
how can you have done that
when your eighteen
and got nothing to lose?
You haven't lived long enough;
you haven't learned the dance,
or have a gun shoved in your face
and shit your pants:
come face to face with embarrassment.
 
Michael would say,
"How ya gonna write?
When you only play it safe:
still too afraid of the night.
You don't wanna get dirty:
don't want to get sweaty:
you haven't learned to see beyond yourself
and your world is so tiny and petty.
How ya gonna write if ya haven't died
some… at least once?
 
Cause if ya wanna write somethin' bout life,
ya gotta die a little first.
Only the dead can write about life,
only the dead have the thirst.
So don't give me no crap, kid,
trying to talk with some other writer's voice.
I know you're too young;
you’ve got no choice.
So pay your dues;
learn from life and listen to me.

I’m a man grown - of twenty-four;
your still just a know nothing kid.
Com’on, hang with me.
I’ll teach you how it is."
 
Now, you don’t need no grammar,
no punctuation, no caps, this is poetry man.
If someone tells you different don’t listen to their crap

and then…
 
 
 
 Erthona
 
 
©2002-2015 rev
______________________________________________
original

What Michael Said
 
Had a friend name of Michael Green,
he was hung up on Henry Miller.
He liked to write verses obscene,
and wanted to be a gangster poet,
long before there was rap,
and gangster wannabees,
who put out a lot of fairy tale crap,
no real life too them.

Michael and me, we paid our dues,
how can you have done that
when your just 19, and have nothing to lose?
You haven't lived long enough,
you haven't learned the dance,
or have a gun shoved in your face,
and shit your pants,
come face to face with embarrassment.

Michael would say, "how ya gonna write,
when you only play it safe,
and your still 'fraid of the night?
And you don't want to get dirty,
you don't want to get sweaty,
you haven't learned to see beyond yourself,
and your world is still so tiny and petty,
'cause ya haven't died, at least once.

'Cause if ya want to write somethin' bout life,
ya gotta die a little first.
only the dead can write about life,
only the dead have the thirst.
So don't give me no crap, kid,
trying to talk with someone else's voice,
'cause your're too young,
ya don't got no choice."
Least that's what Michael said.
 
©2002

[Brownlie]

Michael Green – edit 0.01  (title change)
 
Had a friend name of Michael Green,
he was hung up on Henry Miller.
He liked to write verse obscene -- Inversion
and wanted to be a gangster poet;
long before rap
and gangster wannabees -- What image represents a gangster wannabee? This claim may be met with scrutiny unless you demonstrate it.
who put out a lot of fairy tale crap; -- Too subjective
no real life too them.
 
Michael and me, we paid our dues, -- Cliche
how can you have done that
when your eighteen
and got nothing to lose?
You haven't lived long enough;
you haven't learned the dance,
or have a gun shoved in your face -- had or have?
and shit your pants:
come face to face with embarrassment.
 
Michael would say,
"How ya gonna write?
When you only play it safe:
still too afraid of the night.
You don't wanna get dirty:
don't want to get sweaty:
you haven't learned to see beyond yourself
and your world is so tiny and petty.
How ya gonna write if ya haven't died
some… at least once?
 
Cause if ya wanna write somethin' bout life,
ya gotta die a little first.
Only the dead can write about life,
only the dead have the thirst.
So don't give me no crap, kid,
trying to talk with some other writer's voice.
I know you're too young;
you’ve got no choice.
So pay your dues;
learn from life and listen to me.

I’m a man grown - of twenty-four;
your still just a know nothing kid.
Com’on, hang with me.
I’ll teach you how it is." -- Too much quotation in this. Who wrote the poem? Where did this quote come from? I would think you would need to cite the source.
 
Now, you don’t need no grammar,
no punctuation, no caps, this is poetry man.
If someone tells you different don’t listen to their crap

and then…
 
 
 
 Erthona
 
 
©2002-2015 rev
______________________________________________
original

What Michael Said
 
Had a friend name of Michael Green,
he was hung up on Henry Miller.
He liked to write verses obscene,
and wanted to be a gangster poet,
long before there was rap,
and gangster wannabees,
who put out a lot of fairy tale crap,
no real life too them.

Michael and me, we paid our dues,
how can you have done that
when your just 19, and have nothing to lose?
You haven't lived long enough,
you haven't learned the dance,
or have a gun shoved in your face,
and shit your pants,
come face to face with embarrassment.

Michael would say, "how ya gonna write,
when you only play it safe,
and your still 'fraid of the night?
And you don't want to get dirty,
you don't want to get sweaty,
you haven't learned to see beyond yourself,
and your world is still so tiny and petty,
'cause ya haven't died, at least once.

'Cause if ya want to write somethin' bout life,
ya gotta die a little first.
only the dead can write about life,
only the dead have the thirst.
So don't give me no crap, kid,
trying to talk with someone else's voice,
'cause your're too young,
ya don't got no choice."
Least that's what Michael said.
 
©2002

I provided some critique hopefully it is useful. I know I find your criticism useful.

[billy]

a few things stand out with this poem dale. it's not your usual style, it full of cliche, and the vernacular doesn't go far enough. it's also a bit wordy in places; wordy can work in the speech parts but maybe the narrators parts could be less so. (the none speech parts being told to us.
i think this sort of poem has to have some cliche in it to make it current [specially if it's about the subject of a wannabe gansta poet]
that said some of the clichés feel to obvious and overstated.

Michael Green – edit 0.01  (title change)

Had a friend name of Michael Green, for me the comma could be moved to [had a friend,]
he was hung up on Henry Miller.
He liked to write verse obscene no need for [he] is verse obscene a form or is it yoda speak, i'm asking because i'm not sure.
and wanted to be a gangster poet; is [and] needed?
long before rap this line works well on it's own line it juxtapose poet and  fake gangster
and gangster wannabees
who put out a lot of fairy tale crap; is [a lot] needed?
no real life too them. fairy tale sort of intimates this fact so is this line surplus to requirements?

Michael and me, we paid our dues, this is one of those clichés that feels a little to obvious if you tell how this was achieved and in what context it takes it out of the generalised mundane
how can you have done that this and the next two lines weaken the line above.
when your eighteen
and got nothing to lose?
You haven't lived long enough;
you haven't learned the dance,
or have a gun shoved in your face [had]
and shit your pants:
come face to face with embarrassment. it feels like you want to say fear here but realized it was cliche. embarrassment feels a little weak. a suggest would be anger, something that's often a by-product of fear.

Michael would say,
"How ya gonna write?
When you only play it safe:
still too afraid of the night.
You don't wanna get dirty:
don't want to get sweaty: wanna [keep it in character]
you haven't learned to see beyond yourself
and your world is so tiny and petty. this line reminds me of thor [sorry]
How ya gonna write if ya haven't died a suggest would be to move died to the next line
some… at least once? this  [died some]is cliche but this works well enough to keep

Cause if ya wanna write somethin' bout life, cause should have a comma in front of it or else it works as cause as in cause and effect.
ya gotta die a little first.
Only the dead can write about life,
only the dead have the thirst.
So don't give me no crap, kid,crap kid without the comma in between
trying to talk with some other writer's voice.
I know you're too young; no need for i know. or too
you’ve got no choice.
So pay your dues;
learn from life and listen to me.
I’m a man grown - of twenty-four;
your still just a know nothing kid. no need for still
Com’on, hang with me.
I’ll teach you how it is."

Now, you don’t need no grammar,
no punctuation, no caps, this is poetry man.
If someone tells you different don’t listen to their crap

and then…  the and then sort of makes me feel or at least makes me think that someone's talking crap and that possibly the poem is more a parody of would-be-poets. [i know i'm wrong but it's what i feel]

©2002-2015 rev
______________________________________________

all the point a use are suggestion to be dealt with how the poet sees fit

[Erthona]

Thanks Brownlie, I can always count on you to save me from not having any critiques. I understand what you mean by the have - had problem, but as I have used the contraction of "have not" in the previous lines, have would seem to be the appropriate usage. Maybe someone more grammatically adept than I can give a verdict. Still, I do understand, my natural inclination is to write had. Thanks for all of your good comments.

Dale

_________________________________________________________
Billy,

Billy wrote : "the and then sort of makes me feel or at least makes me think that someone's talking crap and that possibly the poem is more a parody of would-be-poets. [i know i'm wrong but it's what i feel]"

well, yes and no

I would characterize it as ironic rather than parody. In any other field of pursuit one would actually begin to be some what competent after six years of study, so it would be natural for a would be poet to make the same assumption. However in the case of the development of a poet, nothing could generally be further from the truth.

In terms of this not sounding like me; the original draft of this (which I no longer have a copy of) would have been written at or before 1998, as I distinctly remember submitting in a contest. This was probably the lesser of the three poems I submitted.

Billy wrote: "and your world is so tiny and petty. this line reminds me of thor [sorry]"

In my defense, I did write it long before Thor said it in the movies.

Billy wrote: "cause should have a comma in front"

I assume you mean a hyphen?
____________________________________________
Otherwise I believe I concur with all of your assessments. Very good eye Billy, thanks,

Dale

[tectak]

Michael Green – edit 0.01  (title change)
 
Had a friend name of Michael Green,
he was hung up on Henry Miller.
He liked to write verse obscene Unconvincing structure. I cannot go on. I want a rhyme and you misled me....you may as well write obscene verse
and wanted to be a gangster poet; completely unnecessary semicolon provided that you correct what comes after.
long before rap
and gangster wannabees
who put out a lot of fairy tale crap; It is over complicated grammar because you WANT it to be so. But what about what I want?
no real life too them.to
 
Michael and me, we paid our dues,
how can you have done that I didn't. It is a filthy, rotten lie unless you indicate rhetoric is the intent.
when your eighteen you're. This is serious
and got nothing to lose?
You haven't lived long enough;
you haven't learned the dance,
or have a gun shoved in your face
and shit your pants: Look, I get it. The character is illiterate...but tense is not eradicated by intensity.
come face to face with embarrassment.
 
Michael would say,
"How ya gonna write?
When you only play it safe:
still too afraid of the night.
You don't wanna get dirty:
don't want to get sweaty:
you haven't learned to see beyond yourself
and your world is so tiny and petty.
How ya gonna write if ya haven't died
some… at least once?
 
Cause if ya wanna write somethin' bout life,
ya gotta die a little first.
Only the dead can write about life,
only the dead have the thirst.
So don't give me no crap, kid,
trying to talk with some other writer's voice.
I know you're too young;
you’ve got no choice. Somebody said all of this. When did he stop?
So pay your dues;
learn from life and listen to me.

I’m a man grown - of twenty-four;
your still just a know nothing kid.
Com’on, hang with me.
I’ll teach you how it is."
 
Now, you don’t need no grammar,
no punctuation, no caps, this is poetry man.
If someone tells you different don’t listen to their crap Or mine. Best go home happy. In many ways I like this... but in more I do not. I need to see the vernacular-veritas. Then and only then can any of my critique  be balanced. I am not good at this.
Best, very best,
tectak

and then…
 
 
 
 Erthona
 
 
©2002-2015 rev
______________________________________________
original

What Michael Said
 
Had a friend name of Michael Green,
he was hung up on Henry Miller.
He liked to write verses obscene,
and wanted to be a gangster poet,
long before there was rap,
and gangster wannabees,
who put out a lot of fairy tale crap,
no real life too them.

Michael and me, we paid our dues,
how can you have done that
when your just 19, and have nothing to lose?
You haven't lived long enough,
you haven't learned the dance,
or have a gun shoved in your face,
and shit your pants,
come face to face with embarrassment.

Michael would say, "how ya gonna write,
when you only play it safe,
and your still 'fraid of the night?
And you don't want to get dirty,
you don't want to get sweaty,
you haven't learned to see beyond yourself,
and your world is still so tiny and petty,
'cause ya haven't died, at least once.

'Cause if ya want to write somethin' bout life,
ya gotta die a little first.
only the dead can write about life,
only the dead have the thirst.
So don't give me no crap, kid,
trying to talk with someone else's voice,
'cause your're too young,
ya don't got no choice."
Least that's what Michael said.
 
©2002

[Erthona]

Tom,

Sorry for not responding, I've had a fever most of the week. I'm just waiting til I have no fever to comment, cause at the moment all I can think of is that I should just file thirteen it. The revision has not made it any better and only screwed up the rhyme and rhythm. So I am waiting until I am better to comment on your comments.

Dale

[tectak]

Tom,

Sorry for not responding, I've had a fever most of the week. I'm just waiting til I have no fever to comment, cause at the moment all I can think of is that I should just file thirteen it. The revision has not made it any better and only screwed up the rhyme and rhythm. So I am waiting until I am better to comment on your comments.

Dale

Get right, Dale....write feverishly.
Very best,
nothing serious I hope,

tectak