Cycle of flesh

[Jesstice]

I am here to learn. I have learned so much more from these critiques than I dreamed and expected. I am delighted by the responses, thank you very deeply. Here is my final draft (but then I always seem to think that.) ... what do I know? I certainly didn't obey as much as I should have but I took all suggestions/corrections into consideration and tried within my abilities to apply them.
After the awkward cliches were found, I remain interested in writing a second poem.
Jess
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REVISED 2

When the corpulent lips grow hard and dry
When the misty tongue lie stiff in mouth
toes bowed in permanence and fingers tangled
strands of hair brittle and without shine


warmth departs and feeling with it
skin peels away like cigarette-stained wall paper
whiteness of teeth from years and use darkened
like missing bricks and falling windows


memory of mother's joy
of white skin and dewy eyes
tiny hands and yellow curls
heart tapping like rain on aluminum
and lungs that shine like pink balloons


in photographs I cannot breathe, I cannot speak
puckered creases of time cross the face
like tire grooves worn into over-driven roads
and spots of life lay on hands and arms
as languid eyes touch hanging skin


________________________________________________________________________________________



REVISED
lips grow hard and dry
tongue lay still with stiffness in mouth
toes turned in permanence and fingers tangled
hair brittle and without shine
warmth departs and feeling with it
skin flakes away like cigarette stained wall paper
in photographs of me I cannot breathe
in photographs I cannot speak
whiteness of teeth from years and use darkened
like missing bricks and falling bridges
distant memory of mothers joy
of white skin and dewy eyes
tiny hands and yellow curls
lungs shining like pink birthday balloons
heart tapping like rain on aluminum
but puckered creases of time cross the face
and spots of life lay on hands and arms
sunken eyes sit by hanging skin
like tire grooves worn into over-driven roads
let us begin again
may sweat and spit join rain in clouds
buried body unite with mud
so make it true
the endlessness
hope of renewal
cycle of flesh
__________________________________
Before somebody dies
When the softness of my lips grow hard and dry
When the wet tongue in my mouth lay still with stiffness
My toes curled in permanence my fingers tangled
When my hair brittle and without shine
Warmth leaves and feeling with it
skin flakes away like cigarette stained paper
the memory in photographs, memory of me
whiteness of teeth, years and use made darkened
like missing bricks and falling bridges
the soft memory of mothers joy
skin anew and bright eyes
tiny hands and perfect curls
new and fresh warm and perfect
puckered creases of time across face
spots of life on hands and arms
sunken eyes sitting by hanging skin
like tire grooves sunken in brick roads
let us all begin again
make it true the endlessness
hope renewed cycle of flesh
reason for thought and loneliness

[billy]

hi jessice, thanks for the feedback left in the newly registered forum, only replies to poetry in the three main poetry forums outside this forum will count towards you being allowed to post in those threads. (just a heads up.)

the poem.
watch out for cliche, phrase used many times over already. softness of my lips aka as soft lips etc has been used many times already. while the latter part of the line is or reads as original the lips part weakens it. a suggestion is to turn lips into something you want to represent them, in this instance you go from young (soft) to old (hard) a suggestion would be something like:
When the spring of my lips grows hard and dry

also watch out for excessive word use (baggage)

When the softness of my lips grow hard and dry

the wet tongue in my mouth lay still with stiffness

My toes curled in permanence my fingers tangled

my hair brittle and without shine

also try and lay the piece down so it doesn't need punctuation if you're intent on not using it
My toes curled in permanence my fingers tangled  [permanence, my]

i think you have some really good lines in the poem with strong images,  (I've pointed out a few below)


i do think you have the main part of a really good piece of poetry here.
not sure the last stanza adds anything to the poem but with a fairly small edit and a bit of resolve you could lift this more than a level or so.

welcome to the site.

When the softness of my lips grow hard and dry
When the wet tongue in my mouth lay still with stiffness
My toes curled in permanence my fingers tangled
When my hair brittle and without shine

Warmth leaves and feeling with it
skin flakes away like cigarette stained paper for me this is excellent, though i wonder if it were something more to do with ash than paper.
the memory in photographs, memory of me
whiteness of teeth, years and use made darkened
like missing bricks and falling bridges this is different than the old tombstone teeth and works all the better for it. it good to see poets trying to evade using cliched phrases.

the soft memory of mothers joy
skin anew and bright eyes
tiny hands and perfect curls
new and fresh warm and perfect

puckered creases of time across face
spots of life on hands and arms
sunken eyes sitting by hanging skin
like tire grooves sunken in brick roads

let us all begin again
make it true the endlessness
hope renewed cycle of flesh
reason for thought and loneliness

[Jesstice]

Billy,
Thank you so much for the thorough critique. I can tell i've joined the right site. This is my first poem and it's my first draft. I wanted to know if I could get any positive feedback - if someone might see something in it. If there is any good in it at all, I will try to push it to the next level. I really appreciate more than anything, your pointing out cliches, because THAT is more irritating to me, the idea of being cliche, than herpes.

Thank you again,
Jess

[billy]

sorry if i went a little overboard. i think you deserve a bit of time on the edit.
watch out for excess word use. not sure the last stanza does you or the poem much good, it feels tacked on in order to finish the poem. a suggestion would be to finish with a single line under the penultimate stanza.
good edit.

REVISED

lips grow hard and dry while i preferred the other first line with a slighter adjustment, 
tongue lay still with stiffness in mouth again i preferred the original simply because it was easier to read.
toes turned in permanence and fingers tangled
hair brittle and without shine i preferred the line break in the original because it gave the reader a pause.  lets not forget the lack of punctuation.
warmth departs and feeling with it departs works much better than leaves, it has more finality
skin flakes away like cigarette stained wall paper i do like this line but the two clauses still needs to be more connected, a suggestion would be [skin falls away....]
in photographs of me I cannot breathe no need of [of me] the [I] shows it's about you
in photographs I cannot speak
whiteness of teeth from years and use darkened a suggestion would be to put darkened on the next line
like missing bricks and falling bridges

distant memory of mothers joy [distant] isn't really needed [mother's joy]
of white skin and dewy eyes
tiny hands and yellow curls
lungs shining like pink birthday balloons
heart tapping like rain on aluminum this stanza is a treat. some good images that show the joy of motherhood.

but puckered creases of time cross the face no need for [but]
and spots of life lay on hands and arms another solid image. i've got a few of those spots myself
sunken eyes sit by hanging skin would under hanging skin be more correct?
like tire grooves worn into over-driven roads a suggestion would be to make this the second line of the stanza. it was made to fit under the creases line. another good solid stanza.

let us begin again
may sweat and spit join rain in clouds
buried body unite with mud
so make it true
the endlessness
hope of renewal
cycle of flesh






__________________________________

Before somebody dies


When the softness of my lips grow hard and dry
When the wet tongue in my mouth lay still with stiffness
My toes curled in permanence my fingers tangled
When my hair brittle and without shine

Warmth leaves and feeling with it
skin flakes away like cigarette stained paper
the memory in photographs, memory of me
whiteness of teeth, years and use made darkened
like missing bricks and falling bridges

the soft memory of mothers joy
skin anew and bright eyes
tiny hands and perfect curls
new and fresh warm and perfect

puckered creases of time across face
spots of life on hands and arms
sunken eyes sitting by hanging skin
like tire grooves sunken in brick roads

let us all begin again
make it true the endlessness
hope renewed cycle of flesh
reason for thought and loneliness

[Jesstice]

Ah- Okay I love the suggestions, thank you. I am eager to see this become complete - how long do people normally take to write poems? ha! Thank you, thank you for the time and edits! Do you think without the last stanza it may seem a little too dark? I just felt I needed to make some happiness or hope of something better.... without it I feel like a bitter atheist - which I love but it's not a true representation of me! Okay I've talked myself out of the last stanza now. Thanks. I will get together another edit -

[billy]

it varies, i find i can spend an hour or two on one and then do some edits before i put it on the site. after that maybe a couple more edits. the more time you spend on it at the beginning the less time you'll spend on edits.. i have spent three or four hours on one over a few days or so. don't be overly quick to put another edit up for a while see if anyone else has any feedback first

[Jesstice]

Sounds good - although I've already finished another edit... maybe I'm overzealous because it's new to me! If no one's commented by this evening I am posting another edit Then you will be forced to give me your opinion again!

[bena]

Please don't revise too fast and too much it's really very wonderful as it is. I would only list a few nits and they are all punctuation issues like

cigarette-stained wallpaper (add hyphen, and one word on wallpaper)

and mother's joy.

You can get away with using very little punctuation like you have in this poem, but try not to confuse your readers even for a second, and things like mothers seems plural then reader thinks, oh wait its possessive ----in that split moment it takes for their brain to connect the dots, you've pulled them out of your wonderful setting.

I would also drop the second "In photographs" so that it reads:


in photographs of me I cannot breathe
I cannot speak


Other than that this is so damned good I wouldn't want anything about it changed, and it's really really nice to see young new talent. Juicy little morsels! I'll have some more!

PS..you don't know me, but I don't 'gush' about a poem often. I think I just did. Be very proud.

mel/bena

[rayheinrich]

Well... you asked:
Lots of crits, but for a first poem this is quite good. (My first poem, btw, was more than 100 times worse.)

lips grow hard and dry
    do lips grow hard? cracked and dry maybe /but then it's cliché
maybe find some other way to describe or leave out this line

tongue lay still with stiffness in mouth        awkward

toes turned in permanence and fingers tangled
     'toes turned in' or  'toes turned in in permanence' ? confusing as don't
know what 'in' goes with / toes curled? bent?

hair brittle and without shine       pare down
warmth departs and feeling with it
skin flakes away like cigarette-stained wall paper       good image though
logically cigarette stains don't make wallpaper flake

in photographs of me I cannot breathe       use comma after 'me' or make two lines
in photographs I cannot speak       maybe same as above, though it does work
whiteness of teeth from years and use darkened       awkward, do you mean that
white teeth have been darkened from years 'of' use or years 'and' use? /
either way it's cliché  so figure out some other 'teeth' image

like missing bricks and falling bridges       good idea but mouths sometimes
have dental bridges so it reads like a pun and that's not in keeping with
the attitude of the poem

distant memory of mothers joy       should be "mother's" / "mother's joy" is trite
of white skin and dewy eyes       dewy eyes cliché
tiny hands and yellow curls       use synonym of 'tiny'
lungs shining like pink birthday balloons        is 'birthday' necessary?
heart tapping like rain on aluminum        do hearts tap?

but puckered creases of time cross the face        do creases pucker? /
having 'time' directly proceed 'cross' makes it sound like the creases are moving as we are reading it

and spots of life lay on hands and arms        i know what 'spots of life' are (have some myself) but it sounds more awkward than poetic
sunken eyes sit by hanging skin       'sunken eyes' is cliché  but not that bad / but eyes sitting 'by' skin is a bit cartoonish
like tire grooves worn into over-driven roads      maybe something other than 'over-driven'

    this last stanza is corny, preachy, needs rewrite or elimination
but I did like the images in certain lines / if you rewrite use these /

just describe the images, don't give instructions, make decrees

let us begin again        cliché
may sweat and spit join rain in clouds       awkward but love connecting sweat, spit, and rain
buried body unite with mud        cliché  do like 'body' connected to 'mud' work with that
so make it true       cliché
the endlessness       cliché
hope of renewal       cliché
cycle of flesh       cliché