Rumi Poem Interpretation

[pepperspice]

I have been thinking about the meaning of Rumi's poem "The Dream That Must Be Interpreted." Especially the part:

"Everything cruel and unconscious
done in the illusion of the present world,
all that does not fade away at the death-waking.

It stays,
and it must be interpreted.
......
You know about circumcision here.
It's full castration there!"

Can someone tell me what you think this means?

[ellajam]

If anyone has a different translation it would be interesting to see it.


From Essential Rumi
by Coleman Barks

The Dream That Must Be Interpreted

This place is a dream.
Only a sleeper considers it real.

Then death comes like dawn,
and you wake up laughing
at what you thought was your grief.

But there's a difference with this dream.
Everything cruel and unconscious
done in the illusion of the present world,
all that does not fade away at the death-waking.

It stays,
and it must be interpreted.

All the mean laughing,
all the quick, sexual wanting,
those torn coats of Joseph,
they change into powerful wolves
that you must face.

The retaliation that sometimes comes now,
the swift, payback hit,
is just a boy's game
to what the other will be.

You know about circumcision here.
It's full castration there!

And this groggy time we live,
this is what it's like:

                              A man goes to sleep in the town
where he has always lived, and he dreams he's living
in another town.

                           In the dream, he doesn't remember
the town he's sleeping in his bed in.  He believes
the reality of the dream town.

The world is that kind of sleep.

The dust of many crumbled cities
settles over us like a forgetful doze,

but we are older than those cities.
                                                   We began
as a mineral.  We emerged into plant life
and into the animal state, and then into being human,
and always we have forgotten our former states,
except in early spring when we slightly recall
being green again.
                            That's how a young person turns
toward a teacher.  That's how a baby leans
toward the breast, without knowing the secret
of its desire, yet turning instinctively.

Humankind is being led along an evolving course,
through this migration of intelligences,
and though we seem to be sleeping,
there is an inner wakefulness
that directs the dream,

and that will eventually startle us back
to the truth of who we are.

[bena]

Rumi was a philosopher, so much of his writing can have many interpretations. I have a friend whose published several Sufism poetry books, including one entitled "In the Footsteps of Rumi" ummm lemme get a link, since I'm mentioning him...

http://www.amazon.com/Rashid-Osmani/e/B00ATFYJ9Y

He might have a better interpretation than I do. I'll direct him to this page and see what he can find on other interpretations. =) In other words, I don't know, but I can usually find someone who does.

[Leanne]

Every action has a consequence -- your subconscious will exaggerate things to make a point, and if you ignore it, it will only become more insistent.

It also means that if you don't do your own damned homework, you'll never learn anything.

[bena]

Rashid's response was pretty much what Leanne just summed up so well, but I'll post it anyway:

Here's my take on this:
Its about after-life. The Sufi thinking is that while God Almighty may forgive a person for his or her sins committed in the life of this world, if they wrong some other person here, they'll need their forgiveness directly. So if someone is cruel to another person in this life, they need the victim's forgiveness in the after-life (when they are raised from the dead on the day of resurrection). Those cruel deeds will stay with the person in the other world unless they are forgiven. Also, punishment in the other world is more severe and Rumi uses a bawdy example to illustrate that and I think he often does that more to titillate than to sprinkle humor...(IMHO)

[rayheinrich]

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to
cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

- John 1:8-10

[bena]

So now we can compare the Bible to the Qu'ran ...there isnt much difference which might surprise some people, but I'm sure not the intelligent people would be. The quote from Rashid, above, is from a Muslim POV. His almighty God is Allah. I say all paths are good that lead to God.

[rayheinrich]

"It is not that God forgives, while human beings do not. To the contrary, only God
can forgive sins against God, only human beings can forgive sins against human beings."
- Jonathan Sacks, Chief Rabbi of the United Hebrew Congregations of the Commonwealth

[rayheinrich]

Has a dog Buddha-nature?
This is the most serious question of all.
If you say yes or no,
You lose your own Buddha-nature.

[Erthona]

Bena wrote: "So now we can compare the Bible to the Qu'ran ...there isnt much difference which might surprise some people, but I'm sure not the intelligent people would be. The quote from Rashid, above, is from a Muslim POV. His almighty God is Allah. I say all paths are good that lead to God."

Both the Bible and the Koran can be interpreted in many different ways, i.e., "jihad" can mean spiritual journey.  
_____________________________________________________________________________________

pepperspice,

So as not to do your homework for you I will give you only a brief analysis  

BTW Coleman Barks does excellent translations of Rumi. (go ellajamer, like a ball peen hammer)

The following is an illusion to the story of Joseph in Genesis.

"those torn coats of Joseph,
they change into powerful wolves
that you must face."

"Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours."  
Genesis 37:3

And Joseph brothers stripped him of his coat, and sold him into slavery. The wolves are ones sins, so to speak.
Life is but a dream, then we die and wake up to the true reality, laughing at how seriously we took a mere dream. Even so, Joseph brothers were eaten up with guilt and fear until they had the chance to make amends to Joseph.

"You know about circumcision here.     Earthly life. "dream like"
It's full castration there!"                    Life after death. "true reality" Instant Karma

"Everything cruel and unconscious
done in the illusion of the present world,
all that does not fade away at the death-waking."  ("not fade away" - Buddy Holly. How did Rumi know about Buddy Holly )

One is responsible for every cruel act done in this earthly dream/illusion, even after awakening from death into the true reality.

Of course as bena said, Rumi is multilayered. This is only the first layer of interpretation, that is the most obvious.   

Dale

Leanne wrote, "Do your own damn homework!"

[bena]

Yes Dale, when a poem is translated from any language to another, the meanings can shift. It's not just in poetry but more obvious in poetry. Have you read any instructions lately? I have one that came with my son's bb gun, that is saved because it gives us the serious giggles every time we read it. One of them is "Do not direct eyes to the first end of bb gun"--the rest are funnier, but that's the one I remember well enough to quote. The point is made (sort of)...but it seems like a serious enough situation that it should be a bit clearer. Makes the name of that game "Chinese Whispers" seem apropos.

So any language gets misconstrued when translated, and when you throw religion in the mix, now there's a party.

[billy]

i read the question and left the room...i thought [i]what was just said[i]
i did think of an answer that would have made rumi smile, but thought better of giving it.

[ellajam]

i read the question and left the room...i thought [i]what was just said[i]
i did think of an answer that would have made rumi smile, but though better of giving it.

[rayheinrich]

i read the question and left the room...i thought [i]what was just said[i]
i did think of an answer that would have made rumi smile, but though better of giving it.

I thought of an answer that would have made billy smile,
but my mind melted before I could type it.