Family Picnic

[Erthona]

Family Picnic

Blood on his hands.
Blood on his brow,
where he wears a fake thorn crown;
another in a long line of saviors.
Blood on feet where spike
has been pounded; feet that
never will again touch ground.
If he was a true savior, why
would he not heal his wounds
and come down, let his feet
walk upon the ground. Instead
listen to him rant,

Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?

The cry of another delusional idiot,
just like the hundreds, or
thousands before. Big with words,
big with dying, ultimately another
masochist with a martyr complex,
getting what he wants, if not what he deserves.
Another egoist, making a spectacle,
of his death, rather than quietly
hanging himself from a tree,
leaving a bag of silver to pay
for his burial expenses.
Now that is a honorable man.
Unlike this slob, who hasn’t one shekel to his name,
letting the state pick up all the expense.

I bring the family and we picnic
on bread, fish and wine, sitting
on a speared out blanket, it’s the best
entertainment in town. Pity
the one in the middle died so soon,
hardly before we had gotten sat down.
My son ask me, why this happens,
I respond, ”Because they claim
to be King, and there is no king
but Caesar. He holds life and death
in his hands, but what do these
men on these crosses hold?
They have nothing in they’re hands,
as they squirm upon the tree."

I wonder which troublemaker
they will kill next week.
I hoped they do it upside down,
I’ve never seen a rock bleed.


–Erthona

©2014

[Truerenigma]

Erthona, this is an interesting persona poem; it appears to be maybe a soldier or a member of court on a family outing at Jesus' crucifixion. It does a lot to show a time and culture when public ridiculing and murders where a common form of entertainment, as well as a way of making an example. As civilized as we in the western world would like to think we are now, I think some would say that there is plenty of contemporary relevance here in both the east and the west. The main issue I see here is some awkward phrasing. If this is an attempt to show another time, one must remember that they would not have been speaking English. I think it would be best to stick to modern English diction.

Blood on his hands.
Blood on his brow,

I have no idea why you chose to open with a fragment. The period stops me short rather pulling me into the poem, as you would normally want to do in the opening line.

where he wears a fake thorn crown;
another in a long line of saviors.

A dash or a colon would be better than a semi colon here; what follows the semicolon is not an independent clause.

Blood on feet where spike
has been pounded; feet that
never will again touch ground.

The omission of articles here is painful.

would he not heal his wounds
and come down, let his feet
walk upon the ground. Instead

There is a strange way of filling out lines occurring here. "Let his feet walk" as if his feet are dying to walk on the ground but he just won't let them--as if he were the agent in prevention, but the feet would be the agent in walking. Our feet don't walk us, we use our feet to walk. Also, is this a question? Suggestion:

Would he not heal his wounds, walk
upon the ground?

or simply:

would he not heal his wounds and walk?

The cry of another delusional idiot,
just like the hundreds, or
thousands before. Big with words,
big with dying, ultimately another
masochist with a martyr complex,
getting what he wants, if not what he deserves.
Another egoist, making a spectacle,
of his death, rather than quietly
hanging himself from a tree,
leaving a bag of silver to pay
for his burial expenses.
Now that is a honorable man.
Unlike this slob, who hasn’t one shekel to his name,
letting the state pick up all the expense.

The persona and the satire come through well here in tone. The only suggestion I have right now is to remove the comma after "spectacle".

I bring the family and we picnic
on bread, fish and wine, sitting
on a speared out blanket, it’s the best
entertainment in town. Pity
the one in the middle died so soon,
hardly before we had gotten sat down.

I like the use of bread, fish and wine. "hardly before we had gotten sat down" is about the strangest and most painful diction I have ever seen. The line break on "pity" is inspired, I think--a peek behind the mask.

My son ask me, why this happens,
I respond, ”Because they claim

Why the comma after me? And why "my son ask me"? I'm begging to think this was a rather quick draft.

I wonder which troublemaker
they will kill next week.
I hoped they do it upside down,
I’ve never seen a rock bleed.

I don't really get the upside down>rock bleed thing here, unless the two aren't really connected, and except that Jesus is symbolically "the Rock".

I don't know if this is meant to be a soldier or citizen, or a court member; if it is the latter I would suggest a longer, more royally pompous line.

Thanks for the poem.

[Erthona]

TE,

I think I agree with you on most of your points. Yes, it was a very rough draft, but that is why I put it hear to see how people would respond to it. It's been my experience that if I put a fully worked piece in here, I get little response. SO I though I would try the reverse, As far as the "rock" being crucified, that is an allusion to Peter [Petros], whom Jesus called the rock upon which he would build his church. Peter requested to be crucified upside down because he was not worthy to die as his lord had.*

*

Crucified upside down

Origen wrote: "Peter was crucified at Rome with his head downwards, as he himself had desired to suffer."
"Sermon by Leo the Great (440–461)". Ccel.org. 2005-07-13. Retrieved 2010-09-12.
[Origen Adamantius (Ὠριγένης Ἀδαμάντιος, Ōrigénēs Adamántios; 184/185 – 253/254),[1] was a scholar and early Christian theologian who was born and spent the first half of his career in Alexandria. He was a prolific writer in multiple branches of theology, including textual criticism, biblical exegesis and hermeneutics, philosophical theology, preaching, and spirituality.]
______________________________________________________________
Matthew 16:18
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Matthew 16:18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
18 I also say to you that you are [a]Peter, and upon this [b]rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

Jesus told peter of his death, and describe his )Peter's) arms being stretched out against his will. I suspect also in Matthew, but I am too tired to look it up.

Matthew 16:18 Gr Petros, a stone
Matthew 16:18 Gr petra, large rock; bed-rock

Dale

[Truerenigma]

TE,

I think I agree with you on most of your points. Yes, it was a very rough draft, but that is why I put it hear to see how people would respond to it. It's been my experience that if I put a fully worked piece in here, I get little response. SO I though I would try the reverse, As far as the "rock" being crucified, that is an allusion to Peter [Petros], whom Jesus called the rock upon which he would build his church. Peter requested to be crucified upside down because he was not worthy to die as his lord had.*

*

Crucified upside down

Origen wrote: "Peter was crucified at Rome with his head downwards, as he himself had desired to suffer."
"Sermon by Leo the Great (440–461)". Ccel.org. 2005-07-13. Retrieved 2010-09-12.
[Origen Adamantius (Ὠριγένης Ἀδαμάντιος, Ōrigénēs Adamántios; 184/185 – 253/254),[1] was a scholar and early Christian theologian who was born and spent the first half of his career in Alexandria. He was a prolific writer in multiple branches of theology, including textual criticism, biblical exegesis and hermeneutics, philosophical theology, preaching, and spirituality.]
______________________________________________________________
Matthew 16:18
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Matthew 16:18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
18 I also say to you that you are [a]Peter, and upon this [b]rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

Jesus told peter of his death, and describe his )Peter's) arms being stretched out against his will. I suspect also in Matthew, but I am too tired to look it up.

Matthew 16:18 Gr Petros, a stone
Matthew 16:18 Gr petra, large rock; bed-rock

Dale

ah, I see - I was thinking of some old spirituals ("the wise man builds his house upon a rock" and "rock of ages").

Cheers

[tectak]

Family Picnic

Blood on his hands. all is opinion but comma here
Blood on his brow, no punctuation at this line end.
where he wears a fake thorn crown;
another in a long line of saviors. Your opening gambit is statemental and so keep it coralled. It is, or could be, a very nicely constructed sentence.
Blood on feet where spike
has been pounded; feet that
never will again touch ground.
Blood on his feet where
a spike has been pounded;
feet that will never again touch ground.

If he was a true savior, why There is now a complexity of meter which is not helped by precipitous enjambment. It seems, in fact, that you are going all out for point making at the expense of rhythm (not meter)
would he not heal his wounds
and come down, let his feet
walk upon the ground. Instead "Instead" is directed to/at who? "If he was a true saviour...instead hear him rant". And I am not at all sure about "rant".
listen to him rant,

Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? Frankly, in his position and belief this exactly what I would say....but it is not a rant or ranting.

The cry of another delusional idiot,
just like the hundreds, or
thousands before. Big with words,
big with dying, ultimately another
masochist with a martyr complex,
getting what he wants, if not what he deserves.
Another egoist, making a spectacle,
of his death, rather than quietly
hanging himself from a tree,
leaving a bag of silver to pay
for his burial expenses. This was becoming Simpsonian until you mixed up your character's oratorial abilities...delusional,ultimately,masochist, martyr, egoist, spectacle...then SLOB? No. Inconsistent.
Now that is a honorable man. an
Unlike this slob, who hasn’t one shekel to his name,
letting the state pick up all the expense. Is this what it's all about, Homer?

I bring the family and we picnic
on bread, fish and wine, sitting
on a speared out blanket, it’s the best speared or spread....has this been read?
entertainment in town. Pity
the one in the middle died so soon,
hardly before we had gotten sat down. This is good-ol'boys-round-the-campfire talk...before we had gotten sat down?
My son ask me, why this happens, My son asks me why this(?) happens. I answer,"Because they(strictly plural) claim to be a (strictly single)"...but there is acceptable form here. It's just awkward.
I respond, ”Because they claim
to be King, and there is no king
but Caesar. He holds life and death
in his hands, but what do these
men on these crosses hold? these these
They have nothing in they’re hands, Oh dear me. Are you unwell? You are not yourself. THEIR
as they squirm upon the tree."

I wonder which troublemaker
they will kill next week.
I hoped they do it upside down, "I had hoped" if referring to today's events, or "I hope.." if referring to next week's.
I’ve never seen a rock bleed.


–Erthona

©2014

Hi dale,
not your finest hour but you did say it was a first draft...well you can say it again. Conceptually I can read your "story-line" thinking but in terms of historical placement I cannot . This may not be a problem if the language was consistent with time and/or place but it seems off to me.
Best.
Tom

[Erthona]

Thanks for the comments (they are appreciated). Will return them as soon as I can. Hurt my hip and it is difficult to sit at the moment.

Dale

[tectak]

Thanks for the comments (they are appreciated). Will return them as soon as I can. Hurt my hip and it is difficult to sit at the moment.

Dale

...not that old childbearing excuse?

[tectak]

A common description of many of the modern day questions about Jesus and his death. Many ask why die when you have power to live? Why did Jesus not free himself? But then the answer is simple Jesus died and was raised again to life, to show the eternal soul survives beyond death. He also said that earth was next to nothing compared to the heavens, and to seek the riches of earth is folly compared to the riches of heaven, which leads me to disagree with your opinion that men who have no money are lowly scum. Some say it is the value of your heart and what is in it that makes one worthy, and not the gold in his pocket. and to this i agree. Does it make sense to you that rich folk who horde their money and care nothing of the poor and starving will reach a place of love and support, when they denied the poor people their aid? What aid will come to the rich then? If you support a life of greed and think all should be greedy then surely you will be with the greedy and the places where they go, the places where no one cares about you.

This is not critique of the poem but a polemic on the views of the author. I am tempted to move it to the Discussion Forum where it belongs, but in consideration of your likely misunderstanding of the Serious Workshopping purpose I shall leave it here as an example of what is not valid critique. At your request only will it be moved/deleted.
Mod.

[billy]

hi dale.

i found the poem to be a god read with need of an edit or two. at the end of the poem i got why the speaker was a non-believer. in that time few people followed christ (despite what films would have us believe) Catholicism only really caught on with Constantine. i liked the juxtaposition of death and picnic and that it seemed very matter of fact. i found the piece wordy in a couple of places and felt less would be more.
thanks for the read.

Family Picnic

Blood on his hands.
Blood on his brow,
where he wears a fake thorn crown; is where needed?
another in a long line of saviors.
Blood on feet where spike is this spike the fog or A spike?
has been pounded; feet that
never will again touch ground. is will again needed?
If he was a true savior, why
would he not heal his wounds
and come down, let his feet
walk upon the ground. Instead
listen to him rant, i get that the narrator in the poem isn't a believer in christ, but the arguments for why he didn't do such things are bolder than the question. that said any explanation would be a non starter if the speaker isn't a believer. i enjoyed it so far

Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? being brought up in a convent you'd think i know this piece of wordage, i had to google it (my comment is not mockery, just fact.

The cry of another delusional idiot, the idiom changes here a lot, the previous stanza felt as though the speaker witnessed the death. here there seems to be a acute change and the speaker seems to be looking back.
just like the hundreds, or
thousands before. Big with words, i have no idea why but i like this line immensely probably because of the enjambment and mid line period of which i'm not usually a fan.
big with dying, ultimately another
masochist with a martyr complex, feels a bit glib
getting what he wants, if not what he deserves.
Another egoist, making a spectacle,
of his death, rather than quietly
hanging himself from a tree,
leaving a bag of silver to pay
for his burial expenses.
Now that is a honorable man. from my last comment to here works really well in turning round the Iscariot image most have
Unlike this slob, who hasn’t one shekel to his name,
letting the state pick up all the expense.

I bring the family and we picnic and now i see the person is a witness,
on bread, fish and wine, sitting
on a speared out blanket, it’s the best speared or spread?
entertainment in town. Pity
the one in the middle died so soon,
hardly before we had gotten sat down.
My son ask me, why this happens,
I respond, ”Because they claim
to be King, and there is no king
but Caesar. He holds life and death
in his hands, but what do these
men on these crosses hold?
They have nothing in they’re hands,
as they squirm upon the tree."

I wonder which troublemaker
they will kill next week.
I hoped they do it upside down,
I’ve never seen a rock bleed. i like the reference to peter and i like how the speaker turns him into a troublemaker.


–Erthona

©2014

[Erthona]

Tom,

I agree with most of your criticism, except one. Jesus spoke in Aramaic, but the picnic goers most probably only Latin, or at best Greek. I believe in the Bible Jesus said to say these words in a very loud voice. If the picnic goers did not understand the language, nor the context in that Jesus was quoting Psalm 22:1, it would I think seem like a rant. After all the man believed he was God, and in Roman society that would have made him insane, either that, or the fact he was in tremendous pain could have had something to do about it. Anyway, this family, the wife would have had no education at all, the boy would have been too young, and the man, probably a common soldier/tradesman etc., would not have probably not known what he was saying either, but even if he did, I doubt he would have revealed that to his wife and son, as it would defeat the object lesson of watching the crucifixion. The last thing the father would have wanted to do is cast Jesus in a sympathetic light. That's my rational anyway. TE summed it up better than I have

"It does a lot to show a time and culture when public ridiculing and murders where a common form of entertainment, as well as a way of making an example."

This sort of thing was not uncommon, even in the old west at a hanging. People would bring the whole family and have a picnic. People tend to think the ethics of those times were the same as they are today, and when they see a deviance like this they think it extraordinary, when really it was quite mundane.

Billy,

Thanks for catching the typos, and other problems. I'll bring them on board.

And yes it was a rough draft, and this was to a purpose. In this form there are more possibilities than if I have edited the crap out of it, and had been more or less ahem, set in stone. And it seems to have worked as you have given me some great was to go with this. I appreciate all the input, except for sir loco which, while not helpful was very entertaining. This was not an attack on Christianity (If I were going to eviscerate Christianity I would have done a much better job that this), but rather an attempt to show the event from a different point of view.

Thanks again all for your critiques,

Dale

[poe]

Its a refreshing theme, actually quite original at that. Only thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is as Billy pointed out, the idiom change in S2, L1, "...another delusional idiot." I would like to see that sentiment expressed with a less modern day colloquially sounding expression." Such terms as "slob'", "egoist", and "martyr complex" if re -worded in a less modern day idiom would work better for the piece overall, as well. It would be worth the effort to see you polish this piece, in my humble ope.
poe

[Erthona]

Thanks Poe, I believe you are right, and some of the language could be made more consistent, however I am not sure how I will start with that. I am no longer capable of reading in Greek or Hebrew, and was never proficient in Aramaic, but I will consider it and see what I can do.

Thanks,

Dale

[poe]

Thanks Poe, I believe you are right, and some of the language could be made more consistent, however I am not sure how I will start with that. I am no longer capable of reading in Greek or Hebrew, and was never proficient in Aramaic, but I will consider it and see what I can do.

Thanks,

Dale

I don't think you need to write in a different language, there., Dale. I just think you could use a different style or way of saying the same things in English, just in a different way. If you typed the words "slob", or "idiot", "or delusional"or "masochistic", into your thesaurus, I'm sure you could find other words to express the same sentiments. I really liked the setting, and the idea, of this poem. Its almost like time travel, or a traipse back through history. Cool.

[Erthona]

"I don't think you need to write in a different language"

No sorry. I meant to say there is a difference in the way they would talk, or in the idioms used during that time period, but what it really needs is to use words that will make people think it is authentic, even though it is not. That is, as an example, I probably need to use the word "fool" instead of "idiot".


Dale

[poe]

"I don't think you need to write in a different language"

No sorry. I meant to say there is a difference in the way they would talk, or in the idioms used during that time period, but what it really needs is to use words that will make people think it is authentic, even though it is not. That is, as an example, I probably need to use the word "fool" instead of "idiot".


Dale

That works. The traipse back in time that your poem does was interesting, even fun in a way. I could imagine a whole set of poems based in that era from different character's points of view. And also as you did with crucifixion, you could do other events from the great book, stuff with John the Baptist, Moses, King Solomon and Bat Sheba, Abraham, from ordinary locals points of view. I'd read that.

[Erthona]

That does sound like a good idea. I have done that before, writing a poem from several different points of view of the same event. I did that with the Iraqi war.

Dale

I'll PM you another poem of this event