Judge overturns California gay marriage ban

[billy]

it seems same sex marriage is back on the cards, Here;
and rightly so in my opinion. it doesn't mean it the final say so
but it is a step closer to a sensible outcome.

[addy]

Hope the momentum keeps up. It's when issues like these fall out of the sphere of public discussion that extremists manage to hijack the rule of law and common decency.

It's be interesting to see such a discussion progress to the supreme court and be settled once and for all (with favorable results, one hopes). There was a speaker on TED talks whose topic was about democratic debate, and he made an interesting point. Using the issue of gay marriage as one of his examples, he explained that aside from the obvious freedom/human rights issue involved, what's crucial for a fair decision is an in-depth examination of the nature of marriage, its purpose, and what it means to society. Is it a private commitment between two people? Is it for procreation? Is it to create the basic building block of society (family)? etc. etc. It'll be interesting to see those issues really examined. Heck, an examination of the institution will likely bleed into and affect other laws/issues as well.

[billy]

if it is passed nationwide. i think we'll see the grip of religion and religious ideologies
losing a little more of the precarious grip it now has on the general public.

[mrmod]

Either way, it's going to be a long battle...

[billy]

yeah i know.
the sooner it goes to the supreme court the better.

[addy]

I'd be very surprised if the supreme court rules in favor of the ban. Seriously, it shouldn't even be a contest.

[billy]

do they need to be liberal to realize that everyone should be allowed to live with the partner
of their choosing without losing the rights of hetero married couples?

[billy]

well at the moment it seems the Christians are are losing this one (though it could change a few more times before the final battle. i wouldn't class myself as liberal. and no i don't live in the usa

[addy]

Hmm... speaking from an outsider's perspective, it seemed to me like the ultra-conservative right in the US has lost a lot of credibility and has been losing on all fronts recently. But yeah, I guess its hard to really appreciate how much of a grip they have on the national psyche, no matter how many times they embarass themselves.

[billy]

sooner or later the catholic church will fail and collapse apart from a few hard core hard liners. and then so will the Islamic religions. a new one will prob take it's place but i do think the old school religions are coming to an end. or at least the power they hold over many of us.

[addy]

Weird as it is to say, even though many people discriminate against homosexuals for religious reasons, I think many just use religion as a surface excuse. Their bigots, pure and simple, and even if they weren't religious they'd find some other excuse to judge their fellow man.

[billy]

you have a valid point.
many who say it's against god and the church
probably don't even pray or visit a church. it wouldn't surprise me if
many of them didn't even beat their wives. isn't that the norm for redneck Christians?
or am just stereotyping?

[addy]

it wouldn't surprise me if
many of them didn't even beat their wives. isn't that the norm for redneck Christians?
or am just stereotyping?

LOL I'm not sure if you're joking. :D

[altezon]

Protect Marriage is the group behind Proposition 8 and similar measures in other states.

http://www.protectmarriage.com/

Less than two weeks before Election Day, the chief strategist behind Proposition 8, which defines marriage as between a man and a woman in California, issued an urgent appeal and in a matter of days raised more than $5 million, including a $1 million donation from Alan C. Ashton, the grandson of a former president of the Mormon Church. The money allowed the drive to intensify a sharp-elbowed advertising campaign, and support for the measure was catapulted ahead; it ultimately won with 52 percent of the vote.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/15/us/pol...riage.html

But Judge Vaughn Walker gave a victory to Proposition 8 opponents by ruling that the Proposition 8 ballot initiative denying marriage rights to same sex couples in California was unconstitutional under both the due process and equal protection clauses of the US Constitution. What moved this conservative Republican judge was evidence presented at trial that children of gay couples do as well as children of straight couples, and that gay couples are as much full contributors to society and as psychology healthy as straight couples.

Now the question: given that for years gays have been the victims of institutional discrimination and regular acts of violence, and have been denied the emotional, social and economic benefits of legal family relationships, isn't it time to consider reparations? Perhaps Alan C. Ashton, who provided so much of the funding that caused Prop 8 to pass, should now be forced to pay for all the weddings of gay couples in California.

http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2010/08...eddings-ca

[billy]

somehow i can't see him paying anything to a gay couples wedding.

what happens if gays marry and the ruling is changed again ?

[altezon]

well at the moment it seems the Christians are are losing this one

Protect Marriage doesn't represent all of Christianity.

what happens if gays marry and the ruling is changed again ?

The law remains in effect until the appeals are settled.

[billy]

i thought the judge said they can marry, if thats so what happens to people who legally married before the appeal changes it (if it does)

[altezon]

Oops, I'd heard Judge Walker had granted a stay of his decision
pending appeal, but apparently it was temporary and has been lifted.

Judge Vaughn Walker will lift his temporary stay on last week's decision declaring Proposition 8 unconstitutional. However, as Joe My God notes, the stay won't expire until August 18. But after then, California will again become one of the few states where gay and lesbian couples can marry, at least until the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals takes further action.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscar...ted_on.php

I'm guessing that once they're legally married they can't be unmarried if the law changes, but I'm not sure.

[billy]

and if thats the case won't it give other gays the right to
ask for similar treatment in the courts.

[altezon]

and if thats the case won't it give other gays the right to
ask for similar treatment in the courts.

Everyone has the right to ask for anything.
What similar treatment do you mean?