HMS Metaphor Edit 1.1ellajam,crow

[tectak]

Ah, how fortune swings the points; stars by night, lodestone by day.
North by South, we tack the winds that once blew us the other way.
Never turning into gale or by Charybdis, we’ll not go;
that arrow flight to Scylla aimed
is test enough so we scrape by.
Good fortune brags out, loud proclaimed,
but tongues still lie...if we near die.

If we near die beneath the tide -- heaving, dragging deep below--
tell no one but mark the spot; hoist sail, strain sheets and onward blow.
Awkward seas confound us all, so through the spy-glass we must peer;
the promised land, a lighthouse beam,
is all our inward prayers demand.
But on this swell we live out dreams;
hopes come and go like sunken sands.

Sunken sands will come and go; charts and maps can not make clear
whither way to spin the wheel, or where to head or where to steer.
Cast adrift we rise, we fall, we spin, we toss, we plunge, we yaw.
The skipper tells us we’ll survive;
if we have faith, all will be well.
Then Metaphor makes one last dive
to Davy’s Deep…the last Eighth Bell.

Tectak
2002 revisited

[ellajam]

Ah, how fortune swings the points; stars by night, lodestone by day.
North by South...we tack the winds, that once blew us the other way.
Never turning into gale or by Charybdis, we’ll not go;
that arrow flight to Scylla aimed
is test enough so we scrape by.
Good fortune brags out, loud proclaimed,
but tongues still lie...if we near die.

If we near die beneath the tide -- heaving, dragging deep below--
tell no one but mark the spot; hoist sail, strain sheets and onward blow.
Awkward seas confound us all, so through the spy-glass we must peer;
the promised land, a lighthouse beam
is all our inward prayers demand.
But on this swell we live out dreams;
hopes come and go like sunken sands.

Sunken sands will come and go; charts and maps can not make clear
wither way to spin the wheel, or where to head or where to steer.
Cast adrift we rise, we fall, we spin, we toss, we plunge, we yaw.
The skipper tells us we’ll survive,
if we have faith all will be well.
Then Metaphor makes one last dive
to Davy’s Deep…the last Eighth Bell.

Tectak
2002 revisited

Hey, no surprise but great job. I like sunken sands, saying it and the threat of it. "so through the spy-glass we must peer" is so much better, and even "near die" is fine, I think the combination of the rhyme and the ellipsis really works. Thanks for the lesson.

[tectak]

Ah, how fortune swings the points; stars by night, lodestone by day.
North by South...we tack the winds, that once blew us the other way.
Never turning into gale or by Charybdis, we’ll not go;
that arrow flight to Scylla aimed
is test enough so we scrape by.
Good fortune brags out, loud proclaimed,
but tongues still lie...if we near die.

If we near die beneath the tide -- heaving, dragging deep below--
tell no one but mark the spot; hoist sail, strain sheets and onward blow.
Awkward seas confound us all, so through the spy-glass we must peer;
the promised land, a lighthouse beam
is all our inward prayers demand.
But on this swell we live out dreams;
hopes come and go like sunken sands.

Sunken sands will come and go; charts and maps can not make clear
wither way to spin the wheel, or where to head or where to steer.
Cast adrift we rise, we fall, we spin, we toss, we plunge, we yaw.
The skipper tells us we’ll survive,
if we have faith all will be well.
Then Metaphor makes one last dive
to Davy’s Deep…the last Eighth Bell.

Tectak
2002 revisited

Hey, no surprise but great job. I like sunken sands, saying it and the threat of it. "so through the spy-glass we must peer" is so much better, and even "near die" is fine, I think the combination of the rhyme and the ellipsis really works. Thanks for the lesson.

You did it ella. Thank you.
tectak

[Erthona]

S2 L7 Does "sands" need to be plural?

(Something about this line just doesn't work, don't think my suggestion works either, don't know what to suggest) You are not "cast adrift" plus that is too trite. A ship becomes adrift, a life boat is cast adrift.

"Cast adrift we rise, we fall, we spin, we toss, we plunge, we yaw."
Adrift we rise, we're spun, and tossed, we plunge then fall.

"wither way to spin the wheel, or where to head or where to steer."

Aren't all three saying the same thing?

Overall I like it but there are certain places that make me pause, make me frown, make me plunge, and make me drown!


Dale

[tectak]

S2 L7 Does "sands" need to be plural?

(Something about this line just doesn't work, don't think my suggestion works either, don't know what to suggest) You are not "cast adrift" plus that is too trite. A ship becomes adrift, a life boat is cast adrift.

"Cast adrift we rise, we fall, we spin, we toss, we plunge, we yaw."
Adrift we rise, we're spun, and tossed, we plunge then fall.

"wither way to spin the wheel, or where to head or where to steer."

Aren't all three saying the same thing?

Overall I like it but there are certain places that make me pause, make me frown, make me plunge, and make me drown!


Dale

Whatho capt'n,
First point on cast adrift. Meh. Cast adrift IS trite, but you can be cast adrift on ANYTHING if you have no power or navigational aids that work...so trite yes, rest no.
Course to set, is NOT the same as course to steer. You have to take tides and wind into account and steer accordingly. Currents and wind will bring you to the course you set. Furthermore, when on awkward seas you need to make rapid local adjustments which can mean fairly revolutionary activity at the helm. It's not like Star Trek. So there. Bleaghh.
Sands? Hmmm, grudging yes, I suppose, but in life we come oftimes (plural) to shallow water and ground ourselves. I wait for the tide before l throw stuff overboard...metaphor y'see?
I wrote this many years ago but I was naively hoping that I could get away with a simplistic holding position. Since coming to pigpen, and hitting the Erthonian buffers, I have realised that I need to rewrite a shitload of my stuff to pass muster. This is one attempt. Thanks again.
tectak

[crow]

tectak--this is a heavy edit that, I'm admitting, misses the point, but I think it's a necessary micro, and I hope it's useful.

So. Semicolons.

You did me a good turn bc I had to go get a refresher in their usage. In modern style, they either separate two "closely linked" (whatever that means) independent clauses or they function to create hierarchies in nested lists. There's an older usage where they'd mark a sharp turn in meaning, but that seems pretty woo-woo to me.

That said, the older "hairpin" usage could work here, if it's consistent.

And t h a t said, I don't think it is . . .

MICRO edit and proofread:

Ah, how fortune swings the points;
--a semicolon is as above--unless someone knows better . . . A *colon*, on the other hand, precedes a list of examples or an atomized set from a named whole (no, I don't know what that means, exactly).
--long and short is, I think you want a colon here. The rule-of-thumb I was taught is that a colon means "namely."

stars by night, lodestone by day.
North by South...we tack the winds[no comma here, preceding "that"]
--"North by South" is nonsensical. That's totally fine. But now I'm looking for a whirlpool or some other twisting force
--you don't tack winds, you tack in relation to winds

that once blew us the other way.
--what's the other way? North by south is opposites . . . I'm cool w this if it's for effect, though

Never turning into gale or by Charybdis, we’ll not go;
--I'm having trouble thinking how a ship would turn into a gale, as opposed to against or with
--should it be "into a gale" or "into gales"?
--the parallel clarifies things somewhat, but I'm left with a phrase that means "never risking sinking the ship"
--you've got a latent double-neg, but I'm not sure it's too problematic. It's easy to see if you swap the independent clause to the beginning, as in, "we'll not go never turning"

that arrow flight to Scylla aimed
is test enough so we scrape by.
--wasn't it a dove?
--the sense here is "we sailed between Scylla and Charybdis," so would you prefer "through" to "by"?

Good fortune brags out, loud proclaimed,
but tongues still lie...if we near die.
--I'm kind of alright w this construction, and . . . is lie--lie a crux ambiguity? Tongues lie as in deceive AND tongues lie as in rest silently?

If we near die beneath the tide -- heaving, dragging deep below--
tell no one[I could use a comma here, but your call] but mark the spot; hoist sail, strain sheets and onward blow.
--I'd prefer to see an Oxford comma before "and"

Awkward seas confound us all, so through the spy-glass we must peer;
the promised land, a lighthouse beam
is all our inward prayers demand.
--I'd strongly recommend a comma after "beam"

But on this swell we live out dreams;
hopes come and go like sunken sands.
--to me, this is the only truly valid semicolon in the piece
--I can't get the visual of sunken sands coming and going . . .

Sunken sands will come and go; charts and maps can not make clear
--"can not" should be one word, no?

wither way to spin the wheel, or where to head or where to steer.
--I like the spinning quality here
--for the life of me, I can't locate this use of "wither" in any online reference. Is it legit?

Cast adrift[,] we rise, we fall, we spin, we toss, we plunge, we yaw.
--I love the swashbuckling tone here, but "yaw" takes me out of it, largely bc I only ever hear it on relation to a plane

The skipper tells us we’ll survive,
--nix the comma here or, yes, use a semicolon, depending on the meaning

if we have faith all will be well.
--there needs to be some kinda punctuation between faith and all

Then Metaphor makes one last dive
to Davy’s Deep…the last Eighth Bell.
--cool image. maybe personify metaphor sooner?

---

Real quick, I'll bet it'd be an instant dramatic improvement if you put the last two lines up top and then allowed the Metaphor metaphor to ride through the rest of the poem

[tectak]

tectak--this is a heavy edit that, I'm admitting, misses the point, but I think it's a necessary micro, and I hope it's useful.

So. Semicolons.

You did me a good turn bc I had to go get a refresher in their usage. In modern style, they either separate two "closely linked" (whatever that means) independent clauses or they function to create hierarchies in nested lists. There's an older usage where they'd mark a sharp turn in meaning, but that seems pretty woo-woo to me.

That said, the older "hairpin" usage could work here, if it's consistent.

And t h a t said, I don't think it is . . .

MICRO edit and proofread:

Ah, how fortune swings the points;
--a semicolon is as above--unless someone knows better . . . A *colon*, on the other hand, precedes a list of examples or an atomized set from a named whole (no, I don't know what that means, exactly).
--long and short is, I think you want a colon here. The rule-of-thumb I was taught is that a colon means "namely."

stars by night, lodestone by day.
North by South...we tack the winds[no comma here, preceding "that"]
--"North by South" is nonsensical. That's totally fine. But now I'm looking for a whirlpool or some other twisting force
--you don't tack winds, you tack in relation to winds

that once blew us the other way.
--what's the other way? North by south is opposites . . . I'm cool w this if it's for effect, though

Never turning into gale or by Charybdis, we’ll not go;
--I'm having trouble thinking how a ship would turn into a gale, as opposed to against or with
--should it be "into a gale" or "into gales"?
--the parallel clarifies things somewhat, but I'm left with a phrase that means "never risking sinking the ship"
--you've got a latent double-neg, but I'm not sure it's too problematic. It's easy to see if you swap the independent clause to the beginning, as in, "we'll not go never turning"

that arrow flight to Scylla aimed
is test enough so we scrape by.
--wasn't it a dove? Ask erthona. When I read the tale the distance betwixt C and S was an arrow flight."...SCYLLA (Skulla) and CHARYBDIS, the names of two rocks between Italy and Sicily, and only a short distance from one another. In the midst ... You will see the other cliff [opposite Skylla] lies lower, no more than an arrow's flight away. "
--the sense here is "we sailed between Scylla and Charybdis," so would you prefer "through" to "by"? nearer to the rock than to the roll

Good fortune brags out, loud proclaimed,
but tongues still lie...if we near die.
--I'm kind of alright w this construction, and . . . is lie--lie a crux ambiguity? Tongues lie as in deceive AND tongues lie as in rest silently? Yes. Duality of lies deliberate but easy

If we near die beneath the tide -- heaving, dragging deep below--
tell no one[I could use a comma here, but your call] but mark the spot; hoist sail, strain sheets and onward blow.
--I'd prefer to see an Oxford comma before "and"

Awkward seas confound us all, so through the spy-glass we must peer;
the promised land, a lighthouse beam
is all our inward prayers demand.
--I'd strongly recommend a comma after "beam"

But on this swell we live out dreams;
hopes come and go like sunken sands.
--to me, this is the only truly valid semicolon in the piece
--I can't get the visual of sunken sands coming and going . . .

Sunken sands will come and go; charts and maps can not make clear
--"can not" should be one word, no? I want you to say "can NOT" not cannot.

wither way to spin the wheel, or where to head or where to steer.
--I like the spinning quality here
--for the life of me, I can't locate this use of "wither" in any online reference. Is it legit?

Cast adrift[,] we rise, we fall, we spin, we toss, we plunge, we yaw.
--I love the swashbuckling tone here, but "yaw" takes me out of it, largely bc I only ever hear it on relation to a plane Believe me, boats yaw.

The skipper tells us we’ll survive,
--nix the comma here or, yes, use a semicolon, depending on the meaning

if we have faith all will be well.
--there needs to be some kinda punctuation between faith and all

Then Metaphor makes one last dive
to Davy’s Deep…the last Eighth Bell.
--cool image. maybe personify metaphor sooner?

---

Real quick, I'll bet it'd be an instant dramatic improvement if you put the last two lines up top and then allowed the Metaphor metaphor to ride through the rest of the poem

Hi crow,
Deep gratitude...this is what makes workshopping er...work.
I will take my time over your edit suggestions but make a few generally defensive points
The piece is tongue in cheek...my avatar. The nauticalities are based on my experience of sailing and are bent by that experience in the sense that you can only pretend to play the piano badly if you can play it well....which I don't. Or sail.
Your colonic observations are moot. Formal definitions of purpose, conflict with equally formal definitions of use...and in both camps you are more right than wrong.
I once asked my schoolday mentor when to use semi/colons and he told me succinctly, "When necessary". Further prodding over time produced the definitions which you gave but with reticence because there are difficult decisions to be made concerning the obverse arguement...that you should not use either when unnecessary BUT...and a big but it is...they ARE used outside your tight boundaries by writers of merit, often in poetry but also in reportage, for quite another purpose. They are used to introduce variable duration pauses. That is how I use them in poetry. More on this would take the thread to the Discussion forum.
Thank you again and watch out for a further edit.
Very best,
tectak

[crow]

Tectak--

Your defensive remarks are well-earned, and you're right. So:

"The piece is tongue in cheek...my avatar."

I knew that'd wrench my edit, but I wanted to edit yours as a straight-piece, thinking that'd be most-helpful.

As to the semi's, I don't have a dog in the fight, except they stylize the poem. If you like them, keep them!

Best of luck,

crow.

[tectak]

Tectak--

Your defensive remarks are well-earned, and you're right. So:

"The piece is tongue in cheek...my avatar."

I knew that'd wrench my edit, but I wanted to edit yours as a straight-piece, thinking that'd be most-helpful.

As to the semi's, I don't have a dog in the fight, except they stylize the poem. If you like them, keep them!

Best of luck,

crow.

Hi crow,
It's not over 'til it's over...I will still correct to your comma suggestions as I can see your logic showing. Credit.
Best,
tectak

[Erthona]

No, this I think will not go down without a fight.

"but you can be cast adrift on ANYTHING if you have no power or navigational aids that work"

No you can be adrift on "ANYTHING if you have no power or navigational aids that work"

cast
[kast, kahst] Show IPA
verb (used with object), cast, cast·ing.
1.
to throw or hurl; fling:

The implication is the object being "cast" moves from where it was originally (and this is physically, not metaphorically), to somewhere else.
So something cannot be considered cast from itself, simply because it has become adrift (loss of navigational ability). If you get my drift.

Take that Admiral Hastings!

"...two years after Hastings' appointment to Excellent, Sir John Briggs, Reader to the Board, happened to show the examination paper to an Admiral on the Board."

"Do you know, it is very strange, but I do not understand all this. Pray, Sir, what is the meaning of 'impact'?" "I rather think that it means the force of the blow", replied Briggs. The Admiral turned to another Naval Lord, Sir John Beresford, and asked him: "What in the name of good fortune is meant by 'initial velocity'?" "I'll be hanged if I know", answered Sir John, "but I suppose it is some of Tom Hastings' scientific bosh; I'll tell you what I think we had better do - we'll go at once to Lord de Grey (First Lord) and get that Excellent paid off."
However, the First Lord replied: "I am afraid, my dear Beresford, I cannot sanction it, for you have no idea how damned scientific that House of Commons has become.""

Ed- You see the House of Commons had all become mycologist!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As regards Charybdis, and Scylla, when not preforming as singing duo at the local pub (you pick the pub), one is a pool of whirled peas, and one a snapping semi; colon! Thus one can neither sail through nor by, but only between, and this feet has been done butt once, thus the end or stern, if you prefer, of the HMS Matador...er Metaphor now sits listening to Davy Jones' sing renditions of old Monkeys' tunes ad nauseam.

dale

[tectak]

No, this I think will not go down without a fight.

"but you can be cast adrift on ANYTHING if you have no power or navigational aids that work"

No you can be adrift on "ANYTHING if you have no power or navigational aids that work"Je ne comprend pas la difference. Here comes Abu.

cast
[kast, kahst] Show IPA
verb (used with object), cast, cast·ing.
1.
to throw or hurl; fling:

The implication is the object being "cast" moves from where it was originally (and this is physically, not metaphorically), to somewhere else.
So something cannot be considered cast from itself, simply because it has become adrift (loss of navigational ability). If you get my drift.

Take that Admiral Hastings!

"...two years after Hastings' appointment to Excellent, Sir John Briggs, Reader to the Board, happened to show the examination paper to an Admiral on the Board."

"Do you know, it is very strange, but I do not understand all this. Pray, Sir, what is the meaning of 'impact'?" "I rather think that it means the force of the blow", replied Briggs. The Admiral turned to another Naval Lord, Sir John Beresford, and asked him: "What in the name of good fortune is meant by 'initial velocity'?" "I'll be hanged if I know", answered Sir John, "but I suppose it is some of Tom Hastings' scientific bosh; I'll tell you what I think we had better do - we'll go at once to Lord de Grey (First Lord) and get that Excellent paid off."
However, the First Lord replied: "I am afraid, my dear Beresford, I cannot sanction it, for you have no idea how damned scientific that House of Commons has become.""

Ed- You see the House of Commons had all become mycologist!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As regards Charybdis, and Scylla, when not preforming as singing duo at the local pub (you pick the pub), one is a pool of whirled peas, and one a snapping semi; colon! Thus one can neither sail through nor by, but only between, and this feet has been done butt once, thus the end or stern, if you prefer, of the HMS Matador...er Metaphor now sits listening to Davy Jones' sing renditions of old Monkeys' tunes ad nauseam.

dale

Aha! The hollow man I have considered...but the narrow man?
Cast off(nautical)? Cast iron? Castaway? Cast clay? Cast off( religious)? Cast adrift? Hmmm...I see no ships!
I am cast adrift upon a glassy sea, where nought but sea see I, and thou sees nought of me.
Cast adrift? Probably a cliche in the Royal Lancs Yacht Club
Wiki: A castaway is a person who is cast adrift or ashore. While the situation usually happens after a shipwreck, some people voluntarily stay behind on a deserted island, either to evade captors or the world in general. A person may also be left ashore as punishment (marooned).

Eden's Bridge
"Open Sea"
Cast adrift, there's time for me
To think of all that I have been, that I have been
To ponder upon your word to me
To own the gift you've given to me
Best and bleaggghhh,
tectak

[Erthona]

Hoisted?

Dale

[tectak]

tectak--this is a heavy edit that, I'm admitting, misses the point, but I think it's a necessary micro, and I hope it's useful.

So. Semicolons.

You did me a good turn bc I had to go get a refresher in their usage. In modern style, they either separate two "closely linked" (whatever that means) independent clauses or they function to create hierarchies in nested lists. There's an older usage where they'd mark a sharp turn in meaning, but that seems pretty woo-woo to me.

That said, the older "hairpin" usage could work here, if it's consistent.

And t h a t said, I don't think it is . . .

MICRO edit and proofread:

Ah, how fortune swings the points;
--a semicolon is as above--unless someone knows better . . . A *colon*, on the other hand, precedes a list of examples or an atomized set from a named whole (no, I don't know what that means, exactly).
--long and short is, I think you want a colon here. The rule-of-thumb I was taught is that a colon means "namely."

stars by night, lodestone by day.
North by South...we tack the winds[no comma here, preceding "that"]
--"North by South" is nonsensical. That's totally fine. But now I'm looking for a whirlpool or some other twisting force
--you don't tack winds, you tack in relation to winds

that once blew us the other way.
--what's the other way? North by south is opposites . . . I'm cool w this if it's for effect, though

Never turning into gale or by Charybdis, we’ll not go;
--I'm having trouble thinking how a ship would turn into a gale, as opposed to against or with
--should it be "into a gale" or "into gales"?
--the parallel clarifies things somewhat, but I'm left with a phrase that means "never risking sinking the ship"
--you've got a latent double-neg, but I'm not sure it's too problematic. It's easy to see if you swap the independent clause to the beginning, as in, "we'll not go never turning"

that arrow flight to Scylla aimed
is test enough so we scrape by.
--wasn't it a dove?
--the sense here is "we sailed between Scylla and Charybdis," so would you prefer "through" to "by"?

Good fortune brags out, loud proclaimed,
but tongues still lie...if we near die.
--I'm kind of alright w this construction, and . . . is lie--lie a crux ambiguity? Tongues lie as in deceive AND tongues lie as in rest silently?

If we near die beneath the tide -- heaving, dragging deep below--
tell no one[I could use a comma here, but your call] but mark the spot; hoist sail, strain sheets and onward blow.
--I'd prefer to see an Oxford comma before "and"

Awkward seas confound us all, so through the spy-glass we must peer;
the promised land, a lighthouse beam
is all our inward prayers demand.
--I'd strongly recommend a comma after "beam"

But on this swell we live out dreams;
hopes come and go like sunken sands.
--to me, this is the only truly valid semicolon in the piece
--I can't get the visual of sunken sands coming and going . . .

Sunken sands will come and go; charts and maps can not make clear
--"can not" should be one word, no?

wither way to spin the wheel, or where to head or where to steer.
--I like the spinning quality here
--for the life of me, I can't locate this use of "wither" in any online reference. Is it legit?

Cast adrift[,] we rise, we fall, we spin, we toss, we plunge, we yaw.
--I love the swashbuckling tone here, but "yaw" takes me out of it, largely bc I only ever hear it on relation to a plane

The skipper tells us we’ll survive,
--nix the comma here or, yes, use a semicolon, depending on the meaning

if we have faith all will be well.
--there needs to be some kinda punctuation between faith and all

Then Metaphor makes one last dive
to Davy’s Deep…the last Eighth Bell.
--cool image. maybe personify metaphor sooner?

---

Real quick, I'll bet it'd be an instant dramatic improvement if you put the last two lines up top and then allowed the Metaphor metaphor to ride through the rest of the poem

YIKES! Whither typo uncorrected! Good catch. I am hurting!
Best,
tectak