The Roman Sonnet

[L Oquence]

Hello, name is L Oquence, this is only the 2nd poem I've wrote. I'm a rapper first and a poet second, so I tend to use a lot of multisyllabic rhyme schemes.

The Roman Sonnet (EDIT ONE)
From humble beginnings the mightiest rise,
Fresh like a forest that’s absent of cinders,
They are so anxious; providing demise,
Learnt code of honour, they aim to die victors.

Rigour and vigour is tested and learned,
Called into Gaul, then they wait for the dark,
Watch as the soldiers progress and emerge,
Do as they’re told lest they face up to Mars!

Barbarians rise and the war trumpet calls,
Orcus has spoken for those who oppose,
The judge uncontested and he’s trumping all,
Aquilo leaves every man froze in his bones!

The lesson is learned, tested; confirmed,
Believe in the legion or rest in an urn!


ORIGINAL POEM

The Roman Sonnet

From humble beginnings, the mightiest rise.
Valiant. Vigour. Forest absent of cinder.
They all are so anxious to provide a demise.
Must learn the code of honour. Aim to die victors.

Rigourous diligence is tested and learned quick.
Soldiers called to Gaulle, and they are waiting for dark.
Vigilant generals, direct the emergence.
Soldiers do what they’re told, lest they face up to Mars.

Barbarians rise, and then the war trumpet calls.
Orcus has spoken now for those who oppose.
His judgement uncontested, and it’s trumping all.
Aquilo’s wind leaves the wild froze in their bones.

The lesson is learned, and it is tested; confirmed
Believe in the legion; lest you rest in an urn!

[jeremyyoung]

I now understand your hasty rush though the serious workshop section.

It was for this.... this...

[L Oquence]

I now understand your hasty rush though the serious workshop section.

It was for this.... this...

My apologies for my first impressions. I'm still learning to fully critique poetry. I want to learn as much as possible about written poetry, as it truly fascinates me. I just struggle with good critiquing sometimes.
Anyway, I'll assume by the tone of your post the poem was sub par. Like I said, I don't have much experience in the realm of poetry, yet. And the first time we rode a bike we fell, I expect the same from my poems.

[milo]

Note: (Follows traditional sonnet pattern but is 12 syllables per line instead of 10.)

Hello, name is L Oquence, this is only the 2nd poem I've wrote. I'm a rapper first and a poet second, so I tend to use a lot of multisyllabic rhyme schemes.

The Roman Sonnet

From humble beginnings, the mightiest rise.
Valiant. Vigour. Forest absent of cinder.
They all are so anxious to provide a demise.
Must learn the code of honour. Aim to die victors.

Rigourous diligence is tested and learned quick.
Soldiers called to Gaulle, and they are waiting for dark.
Vigilant generals, direct the emergence.
Soldiers do what they’re told, lest they face up to Mars.

Barbarians rise, and then the war trumpet calls.
Orcus has spoken now for those who oppose.
His judgement uncontested, and it’s trumping all.
Aquilo’s wind leaves the wild froze in their bones.

The lesson is learned, and it is tested; confirmed
Believe in the legion; lest you rest in an urn!

For the most part, I found the stuff of the poem (the poetry) pretty uninteresting but you could use the bones of it as a practice - an exercise of sorts to get the sonnet form down.

Let's consider some commonly accepted elements of a sonnet -

1. consistent rhyme scheme
2. consistent meter
3. lyric
4. problem/resolution structure
5. 14 lines

of these five elements, your poem has only the last.

so, where to start? It might be a good idea to start your journey by at least choosing a meter. After you have made your choice, some helpful pigpennien is bound to tell you where you have missed it.

[L Oquence]

Note: (Follows traditional sonnet pattern but is 12 syllables per line instead of 10.)

Hello, name is L Oquence, this is only the 2nd poem I've wrote. I'm a rapper first and a poet second, so I tend to use a lot of multisyllabic rhyme schemes.

The Roman Sonnet

From humble beginnings, the mightiest rise.
Valiant. Vigour. Forest absent of cinder.
They all are so anxious to provide a demise.
Must learn the code of honour. Aim to die victors.

Rigourous diligence is tested and learned quick.
Soldiers called to Gaulle, and they are waiting for dark.
Vigilant generals, direct the emergence.
Soldiers do what they’re told, lest they face up to Mars.

Barbarians rise, and then the war trumpet calls.
Orcus has spoken now for those who oppose.
His judgement uncontested, and it’s trumping all.
Aquilo’s wind leaves the wild froze in their bones.

The lesson is learned, and it is tested; confirmed
Believe in the legion; lest you rest in an urn!

For the most part, I found the stuff of the poem (the poetry) pretty uninteresting but you could use the bones of it as a practice - an exercise of sorts to get the sonnet form down.

Let's consider some commonly accepted elements of a sonnet -

1. consistent rhyme scheme
2. consistent meter
3. lyric
4. problem/resolution structure
5. 14 lines

of these five elements, your poem has only the last.

so, where to start? It might be a good idea to start your journey by at least choosing a meter. After you have made your choice, some helpful pigpennien is bound to tell you where you have missed it.

Thank you for the feedback. I've only done minor research on sonnets. The main things I've found where the ab/ab rhyme scheme, 14 lines, ten syllables (which I openly altered). But I suppose that the topical part of the poem matters in this particular genre. I enjoy the 12 syllables, 14 lines structure I've come up with but I'll avoid referring to it as a sonnet from now on, thank you.
Also, I thought internals were separate from the ab/ab end rhyme scheme, which I provided? But I appreciate that.

As far as metre goes, I generally write to the 4/4 time of music, a habit I'll have to break out of as I transition to poetry, seeing as how poetry appears to follow the standard stressing of syllables in the English language and I can't twist words here as easily as I would in a song,

I'll have to learn about metre, iambic pentametre I've seen mentioned somewhere as the singy-songy basic metre. So I'll practice writing a poem in that.

[jeremyyoung]

Firstly, calm down

Secondly, breath

Thirdly, welcome to the forum - poetry costs and right here is where you start paying - god I loved that women with the cane....

[milo]

Note: (Follows traditional sonnet pattern but is 12 syllables per line instead of 10.)

Hello, name is L Oquence, this is only the 2nd poem I've wrote. I'm a rapper first and a poet second, so I tend to use a lot of multisyllabic rhyme schemes.

The Roman Sonnet

From humble beginnings, the mightiest rise.
Valiant. Vigour. Forest absent of cinder.
They all are so anxious to provide a demise.
Must learn the code of honour. Aim to die victors.

Rigourous diligence is tested and learned quick.
Soldiers called to Gaulle, and they are waiting for dark.
Vigilant generals, direct the emergence.
Soldiers do what they’re told, lest they face up to Mars.

Barbarians rise, and then the war trumpet calls.
Orcus has spoken now for those who oppose.
His judgement uncontested, and it’s trumping all.
Aquilo’s wind leaves the wild froze in their bones.

The lesson is learned, and it is tested; confirmed
Believe in the legion; lest you rest in an urn!

For the most part, I found the stuff of the poem (the poetry) pretty uninteresting but you could use the bones of it as a practice - an exercise of sorts to get the sonnet form down.

Let's consider some commonly accepted elements of a sonnet -

1. consistent rhyme scheme
2. consistent meter
3. lyric
4. problem/resolution structure
5. 14 lines

of these five elements, your poem has only the last.

so, where to start? It might be a good idea to start your journey by at least choosing a meter. After you have made your choice, some helpful pigpennien is bound to tell you where you have missed it.

Thank you for the feedback. I've only done minor research on sonnets. The main things I've found where the ab/ab rhyme scheme, 14 lines, ten syllables (which I openly altered). But I suppose that the topical part of the poem matters in this particular genre. I enjoy the 12 syllables, 14 lines structure I've come up with but I'll avoid referring to it as a sonnet from now on, thank you.
Also, I thought internals were separate from the ab/ab end rhyme scheme, which I provided? But I appreciate that.

As far as metre goes, I generally write to the 4/4 time of music, a habit I'll have to break out of as I transition to poetry, seeing as how poetry appears to follow the standard stressing of syllables in the English language and I can't twist words here as easily as I would in a song,

I'll have to learn about metre, iambic pentametre I've seen mentioned somewhere as the singy-songy basic metre. So I'll practice writing a poem in that.

the 4/4 beat of music is perfect to write sonnets to, it is iambic tetrameter. Unfortunately, when you sing, you will force syllables to fit the beats where they wouldn't naturally fall. Without the music, we are dependent on the words. Currently, there is no recognizable meter as it ambles precariously between anapaestic tetrameter and a metric mash. If you pick a meter I can show you how to jam this into it.

[L Oquence]

For the most part, I found the stuff of the poem (the poetry) pretty uninteresting but you could use the bones of it as a practice - an exercise of sorts to get the sonnet form down.

Let's consider some commonly accepted elements of a sonnet -

1. consistent rhyme scheme
2. consistent meter
3. lyric
4. problem/resolution structure
5. 14 lines

of these five elements, your poem has only the last.

so, where to start? It might be a good idea to start your journey by at least choosing a meter. After you have made your choice, some helpful pigpennien is bound to tell you where you have missed it.

Thank you for the feedback. I've only done minor research on sonnets. The main things I've found where the ab/ab rhyme scheme, 14 lines, ten syllables (which I openly altered). But I suppose that the topical part of the poem matters in this particular genre. I enjoy the 12 syllables, 14 lines structure I've come up with but I'll avoid referring to it as a sonnet from now on, thank you.
Also, I thought internals were separate from the ab/ab end rhyme scheme, which I provided? But I appreciate that.

As far as metre goes, I generally write to the 4/4 time of music, a habit I'll have to break out of as I transition to poetry, seeing as how poetry appears to follow the standard stressing of syllables in the English language and I can't twist words here as easily as I would in a song,

I'll have to learn about metre, iambic pentametre I've seen mentioned somewhere as the singy-songy basic metre. So I'll practice writing a poem in that.

the 4/4 beat of music is perfect to write sonnets to, it is iambic tetrameter. Unfortunately, when you sing, you will force syllables to fit the beats where they wouldn't naturally fall. Without the music, we are dependent on the words. Currently, there is no recognizable meter as it ambles precariously between anapaestic tetrameter and a metric mash. If you pick a meter I can show you how to jam this into it.

lets stick with the Iambic tetrametre you mentioned. If it follows closely to that of music. I appreciate the help. I'm really excited to learn more about poetry.

[ellajam]

Hi, L Oquence, welcome.

Have you read the sonnet practice threads here? They are a quick, clear, free education.

I came here counting syllables, and still like to in other forms, but learned here about meter, which is what you need for what you are attempting.

i hope you have as much fun here as I do, there is a lot to learn.

[L Oquence]

Hi, L Oquence, welcome.

Have you read the sonnet practice threads here? They are a quick, clear, free education.

I came here counting syllables, and still like to in other forms, but learned here about meter, which is what you need for what you are attempting.

i hope you have as much fun here as I do, there is a lot to learn.

I'll have to look at the threads. Thank you for the recommendation

[billy]

between miol's help and some of threads here you should learn what you need to.
that you're prepared to try is the best arrow in your quiver.

[L Oquence]

So, when counting metre, you just count which syllable of a word is stressed?
like sarCOPHagus, the long O is stressed, right?

[billy]

i think it would be sa COPH a GUS but like you i'm not to well up on meter. i'm sure someone will be along to put us both on the right track soon,

[L Oquence]

i think it would be sa COPH a GUS but like you i'm not to well up on meter. i'm sure someone will be along to put us both on the right track soon,

I think I figured out the difference, it seems a dialectal difference. I'm assuming you pronounce it gus like the name. So sarcophagus would have the exta stress. When I say it's with an is sound, and a similar stressing to dominance, or ominous. language sure is fascinating aha.

[shemthepenman]

if you are a rapper, then i suggest write down some of that. You should know that sonnets are just a prelude to poetry, just a footnote. 'return of the G' by outkast is better than any sonnet shakespeare ever wrote... or the underachievers 'herb shuffle' for that matter. I heard your sonnet with a beat behind it, and still nodding

"...and say y'all be gospel rappin'
but they be steady clappin' when you talk about
bitches & switches & hoes & clothes & weed
let's talk about time travelin' rhyme javelin
somethin' mind unravelin' get down..."

[Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXSWwsrSZ9o&feature=kp]

[L Oquence]

if you are a rapper, then i suggest write down some of that. You should know that sonnets are just a prelude to poetry, just a footnote. 'return of the G' by outkast is better than any sonnet shakespeare ever wrote... or the underachievers 'herb shuffle' for that matter. I heard your sonnet with a beat behind it, and still nodding

"...and say y'all be gospel rappin'
but they be steady clappin' when you talk about
bitches & switches & hoes & clothes & weed
let's talk about time travelin' rhyme javelin
somethin' mind unravelin' get down..."

[Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXSWwsrSZ9o&feature=kp]

I've written down most every rap I've spit that was not freestyled.. I'd share them on here but they differ a tad from written poetry, and I'm not too sure if the reception to such braggadocios lines would be too heavenly. but I have some that are more.. "poetic" you could say I might share sometime.

anyway fascinating what you said about the sonnet. I just like the format because its short and sweet.

edit: just a rhetorical thought. I wonder if I wrote my poetry with instrumentation in the background if it would "flow" better? obviously that's not substitute for learning proper metre, but I just wonder if by writing with the attempt to match up to a drum would make the words do the same... hmm. id have to make sure I follow standard stressing of syllables however.

[shemthepenman]

i think if you are a rapper you probably have natural meter (maybe not, i mean i don't know because you haven't posted any, but at least give it a go - and I am sure if you had a beat in mind or in the air or just about it will help the flow. Poetry is a snobbish affair, but if you do 'different' well enough in words then it trumps all that. so my suggestion would be, get a beat machine, stick in a slow beat like flylo 90bpm or even slower toKimonsta 75bpm and then hit the off beat with some samiyam (down load rap beats volume 1 samiyam) and then just start spitting. but make your themes more strange, personal and not so cliche. this is the point of poetry, even in rap form. the best hiphop is that one you havent quite heard before and you think, what the fuck! and I think, you asking about sonnets and such means you have the will and inspiration to really do something unique. good luck, I hope you make it.

plus, post anything, raps and what not in the newly registered forum. it is all good.

[L Oquence]

i think if you are a rapper you probably have natural meter (maybe not, i mean i don't know because you haven't posted any, but at least give it a go - and I am sure if you had a beat in mind or in the air or just about it will help the flow. Poetry is a snobbish affair, but if you do 'different' well enough in words then it trumps all that. so my suggestion would be, get a beat machine, stick in a slow beat like flylo 90bpm or even slower toKimonsta 75bpm and then hit the off beat with some samiyam (down load rap beats volume 1 samiyam) and then just start spitting. but make your themes more strange, personal and not so cliche. this is the point of poetry, even in rap form. the best hiphop is that one you havent quite heard before and you think, what the fuck! and I think, you asking about sonnets and such means you have the will and inspiration to really do something unique. good luck, I hope you make it.

plus, post anything, raps and what not in the newly registered forum. it is all good.

rhythm wise, hows this? I wrote it to a beat I made. (Im also a producer o

it's not really meant to be particularly poetic, just something so I can get the feel of ab/ab rhyme schemes in the context of poetry with more rhythm.

[abu nuwas]

Follow Milo.

As to metre, it is all stress. Forget music -it is a different thing.

Here is the beginning of Coleridge's famous 'Ancient Mariner'

''It is an ancient Mariner,
And he stoppeth one of three.
'By thy long grey beard and glittering eye,
Now wherefore stopp'st thou me?''

The metre goes:

It IS/ an AN/cient MAR/inER/
(And) he STOP/peth ONE/ of THREE'
'(By) thy LONG/grey BEARD/ and GLIT/tering EYE/
Now WHERE/fore STOP'ST/thou ME?/

so to give it a label, it alternates between iambic trimeter, and iambic tetrameter, that is, in English, three deDAs, and four deDAs, with the odd half foot thrown in. He keeps it up for the rest of the poem, which, in my opinion, is a must-read.

'Sarcophagus' is not a good example as people do pronounce it differently. I pronounce it with the stress on the 'O', which there makes 'sarCOPHagus'. =short long, short short.

I look forward to seeing the recast version. One final thought: try not to force rhymes - it is an absolute no-no.








.




As to metre, it is all stress, as in the Ancient Mariner here:

[L Oquence]

Follow Milo.

As to metre, it is all stress. Forget music -it is a different thing.

Here is the beginning of Coleridge's famous 'Ancient Mariner'

''It is an ancient Mariner,
And he stoppeth one of three.
'By thy long grey beard and glittering eye,
Now wherefore stopp'st thou me?''

The metre goes:

It IS/ an AN/cient MAR/inER/
(And) he STOP/peth ONE/ of THREE'
'(By) thy LONG/grey BEARD/ and GLIT/tering EYE/
Now WHERE/fore STOP'ST/thou ME?/

so to give it a label, it alternates between iambic trimeter, and iambic tetrameter, that is, in English, three deDAs, and four deDAs, with the odd half foot thrown in. He keeps it up for the rest of the poem, which, in my opinion, is a must-read.

'Sarcophagus' is not a good example as people do pronounce it differently. I pronounce it with the stress on the 'O', which there makes 'sarCOPHagus'. =short long, short short.

I look forward to seeing the recast version. One final thought: try not to force rhymes - it is an absolute no-no.








.




As to metre, it is all stress, as in the Ancient Mariner here:

I appreciate all this. It makes a lot more sense now. And I see, I try not to "force" rhymes. Polysyllabic rhymes are just really common in rap and it's a habit of mine in any more artful writing I do. I want to craft that tendency towards multies into a uniqueness of mine eventually, but I want to avoid forcing it obviously as well.