Gratification

[Alex13]

Its a physical love,

it always is.

It’s a battle for dominance,
for peak and for show.

It sent me to hell and back,
yet the thought of not having it haunts me.

The masochist in me is at war
with my soul I watch fire torch my spirit,
but you never let me burn

alone.

I can't obtain facts to prove my theory,
but in the end
I won't stop loving you.

And as the rub turns to grind
and the grind turns to blister,
to blood,

I wonder if I've ever had a place in your heart.

[Alex13]

Great piece of poetry, but i have question,
Is the physical love coming from the counterpart, or from the "I"-person? As, in my opinion, it looks a bit like your own love turns from physical to true love (from line 1 to the end of line 5) But that might just be something i misunderstood, don't know if it's just me ^^

You are correct It began as lust and pure infatuation, but eventually became love. Unhealthy love.

Is it confusing? Anything I can do to make it more clear?

[billy]

not sure the layout does you any favours. how we show the poem can have a large bearing as to how it's read.
i'd also try and use less of the smaller words.

an example of what i mean : (all your own words.)

The masochist in me is at war
with my soul I watch fire torch my spirit,
but you never let me burn

alone.

I can't obtain facts to prove my theory
...................

[Alex13]

not sure the layout does you any favours. how we show the poem can have a large bearing as to how it's read.
i'd also try and use less of the smaller words.

an example of what i mean : (all your own words.)

The masochist in me is at war
with my soul I watch fire torch my spirit,
but you never let me burn

alone.

I can't obtain facts to prove my theory
...................

Thank you I'll work on the layout, always something I've struggled with.

[Alex13]

Great piece of poetry, but i have question,
Is the physical love coming from the counterpart, or from the "I"-person? As, in my opinion, it looks a bit like your own love turns from physical to true love (from line 1 to the end of line 5) But that might just be something i misunderstood, don't know if it's just me ^^

You are correct It began as lust and pure infatuation, but eventually became love. Unhealthy love.

Is it confusing? Anything I can do to make it more clear?

Awesome, really like the whole meaning with it then!

But as billy said, changing the layout as he showed might try and help the poem show the change from physical to the real affection, and also maybe try to describe the change more clearly, maybe adding a line or two?

Thank you so much!

[Erthona]

Alex,

This is a somewhat original idea as far as love poems go, and you manage to avoid most of the cliches usually associated with such poetry. However there is a fair amount of ambiguity, as well as missing material the reader would need to make much of this. Some notes below.
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This reads a little to stiff and pedantic, the first three lines start with some form of "it".

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This phrase is a bit cliche "It sent me to hell and back"
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" I watch the fire torch my spirit, but you never let me burn alone." What fire?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The masochist in me is at war with my soul"
As soul is undefined, do you mean it as "conscience" "essence" "ego". Soul can be used in many ways, and without qualifying how you are using it, the phrase has no graspable meaning.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think if you are going to work with this, it needs to be expanded to give more of the story behind these thought burbs. As it is it fails to elicit an emotional response as there is not enough here for the reader to become invested in it.

"I can't obtain any facts to prove my theory, but in the end I won't ever stop loving you."
Is the theory that you "won't ever stop loving" them?

Best,


Dale

[Alex13]

Alex,

This is a somewhat original idea as far as love poems go, and you manage to avoid most of the cliches usually associated with such poetry. However there is a fair amount of ambiguity, as well as missing material the reader would need to make much of this. Some notes below.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This reads a little to stiff and pedantic, the first three lines start with some form of "it".

----------------------------------------------------------
This phrase is a bit cliche "It sent me to hell and back"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
" I watch the fire torch my spirit, but you never let me burn alone." What fire?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The masochist in me is at war with my soul"
As soul is undefined, do you mean it as "conscience" "essence" "ego". Soul can be used in many ways, and without qualifying how you are using it, the phrase has no graspable meaning.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think if you are going to work with this, it needs to be expanded to give more of the story behind these thought burbs. As it is it fails to elicit an emotional response as there is not enough here for the reader to become invested in it.

"I can't obtain any facts to prove my theory, but in the end I won't ever stop loving you."
Is the theory that you "won't ever stop loving" them?

Best,


Dale

Thanks Dale.

Do you believe it would serve me better to focus on a single aspect of the work? For example, expanding the physical aspect of the relationship? Navigating exactly what it means to enjoy the masochism? Eventually that would lead me back to the psychological aspects of the relationship, should I expand on this as well? I struggle with recognizing good starting points at times.

[Erthona]

I think there are psychological aspects of masochism that should be explored, even more so than the physical ones, but they have nothing to do with love, and I don't think that is clear in your writing. Love is something other than you getting what you need to get off sexually, nor is letting someone abuse you a form of demonstrating your love to them. If there is love to begin with and pleasuring each other this way is part of that, then it may be said to be done out of love, although I have a hard time imaging a sadist as anything but a manipulative control freak, and certainly not given to love. Love seems the antithesis of a sadist. I can see where a masochism could mistake giving themselves to someone to be abused as love, but in reality they are not physically a masochism as they do not get off sexually to the pain. Their love experience is all mental, and a demonstration to themselves and the other that they are willing to endure whatever they need to for their love. Yet still, I would be dubious to call that love either.

Of course to my mind many people call many things "love", but if you really look at the dynamics it turns out to be something else, such as a man with a trophy wife, he does not love her, she is merely a reflection of his ego, and so it is really a form of narcissism. Most things that people call love are like this. Love is a mutual reciprocation of concern for the welfare of the beloved (the other person). It can involve sex as an expression of that love, but the love exists apart from sex, and is not kindled by it, that is simply lust and fades as the novelty wears off. This is why in a sadomasochistic relationship things generally become more extreme as a way to keep at least the sadist interested.

But of course you may characterize it as you will, most people do. I would simply suggest you state as though you feel you are in love rather than state it as a fact, as that might make it seem more genuine. Don't get me wrong I am not trying to say I know how you feel, I am saying this is what makes sense in this type of relationship. I only go this far since you asked.

Best,

Dale

[Alex13]

I think there are psychological aspects of masochism that should be explored, even more so than the physical ones, but they have nothing to do with love, and I don't think that is clear in your writing. Love is something other than you getting what you need to get off sexually, nor is letting someone abuse you a form of demonstrating your love to them. If there is love to begin with and pleasuring each other this way is part of that, then it may be said to be done out of love, although I have a hard time imaging a sadist as anything but a manipulative control freak, and certainly not given to love. Love seems the antithesis of a sadist. I can see where a masochism could mistake giving themselves to someone to be abused as love, but in reality they are not physically a masochism as they do not get off sexually to the pain. Their love experience is all mental, and a demonstration to themselves and the other that they are willing to endure whatever they need to for their love. Yet still, I would be dubious to call that love either.

Of course to my mind many people call many things "love", but if you really look at the dynamics it turns out to be something else, such as a man with a trophy wife, he does not love her, she is merely a reflection of his ego, and so it is really a form of narcissism. Most things that people call love are like this. Love is a mutual reciprocation of concern for the welfare of the beloved (the other person). It can involve sex as an expression of that love, but the love exists apart from sex, and is not kindled by it, that is simply lust and fades as the novelty wears off. This is why in a sadomasochistic relationship things generally become more extreme as a way to keep at least the sadist interested.

But of course you may characterize it as you will, most people do. I would simply suggest you state as though you feel you are in love rather than state it as a fact, as that might make it seem more genuine. Don't get me wrong I am not trying to say I know how you feel, I am saying this is what makes sense in this type of relationship. I only go this far since you asked.

Best,

Dale

I truly appreciate you taking the time to respond to me in the way that you did. I very much need to go back to the basics with this piece and breakdown exactly what it is I am trying to convey. I always want my work to be genuine, I will take my time with this.

Again, thank you so much.