Simon in the Land of Chalk Outlines (Revision 3)

[Todd]

Revision 3

The lines would shiver as they grew;
this dark slate world sublime,
because the things I draw come true.
There was a girl I drew
with hands of silk within our mime.
The lines shivered and grew,
dropped the chalk, too soon withdrew—
no ladder left to climb,
because the things I draw come true.
I made one, she made two:
a village rose up from our grime.
The lines shivered and grew
to serve a god with worship due.
Amidst chants, the bells chime
because the things I draw come true.
On this slate, I start anew,
erase the details of my crime.
The lines would shiver when they grew,
the things I draw come true.

~~~
Edit: Still has issues fitting the 4-3-4-3 with the villanelle in a way I'm happy with, but it feels closer to my intent now.

Revision 2

The lines would shiver as they grew;
this dark slate world sublime,
because the things I draw come true.

One time, I sketched a girl I knew
with hands of silken mime.
The lines would shiver as they grew.
Passion spent, I withdrew.
There was no ladder left to climb.

The things I draw come true.
I began one, then she drew two:
a people touched by grime.

The lines would shiver as they grew
prostrate now, worship due
amidst the chants, the bells that chime.
The things I draw come true.

So, on this slate, I start anew
erasing details of my crime.
The lines would shiver when they grew,
the things I draw come true.

~~~
Edit: I tried to smooth out the meter per milo's advice. I had to mess with the second refrain of the villanelle, and the fourth line to make it work. I'm not sure if it does.

Revision

The lines would shiver as they grew.
The sky so cold, the world sublime
the things I draw come true.
One time, I sketched a girl I knew
with hands of silken mime
The lines would shiver as they grew
a whisper of heat withdrew.
There was no ladder left to climb
the things I draw come true.
I began one, then she drew two:
a people touched by grime.
The lines would shiver as they grew
prostrate my worship due
amidst the chants, the bells that chime.
The things I draw come true.
So, on this slate, I start anew
erase the past; my crime.
The lines would shiver when they grew,
the things I draw come true.

~~~
This is a revision from an earlier thread here

I got great advice from a number of people, but owe a debt to milo to even get this far. I don't think its done yet so I'm reposting.

[Erthona]

Todd,

A Villanelle. Not one of my favorite forms as the content is nearly always subsumed in the form, and I find this no different. Aside from this not making a whole lot of sense, it does read beautifully. Just in terms of reading it reminds me of some of the middle English ballads as it has that same constant dipping motion. As this form started as a type of ballad, I would say you did very well with that part. That this is from a reversed syntax language (French), it is somewhat of an accomplishment to make it sound natural. For me that is nearly always missing in most of these I have read. So well done in that regard.

Dale

[Todd]

Thanks Dale. I appreciate the comments. This is based on a childhood TV show (title of the poem). I imagined the six year simon with his chalk hitting puberty, and how screwed up that could get. I don't know it that gives context.

[bena]

That was one of my favorite books as a child (along with Where the Wild Things Are and the Lorax)

But I hate villanelles...not sure if it's because they sometimes make no sense, or because I could not write one to save my life. It does read well.

The only decent advice I could give you on this is that I think it is screaming for line breaks. I've seen many villanelles that do use them, so I don't think its a form rule--but totally not sure.

cheers and love,

mel.

[Erthona]

Todd,

I have a vague recollection of such a show, as though I saw it once, but not enough for this to make sense. Maybe if I had it would come together more for me. Maybe I'll see if there are episodes on u-tube, it sounds like a fun show. From what you say, it reminds me of flatland.


Dale

[ChristopherSea]

The lines would shiver as they grew.
The sky so cold, the world sublime
the things I draw come true.
One time, I sketched a girl I knew
with hands of silken mime
The lines would shiver as they grew
a whisper of heat withdrew.
There was no ladder left to climb
the things I draw come true.
I began one, then she drew two:
a people touched by grime.
The lines would shiver as they grew
prostrate my worship due
amidst the chants, the bells that chime.
The things I draw come true.
So, on this slate, I start anew
erase the past; my crime.
The lines would shiver when they grew,
the things I draw come true.

~~~
This is a revision from an earlier thread here

I got great advice from a number of people, but owe a debt to milo to even get this far. I don't think its done yet so I'm reposting.

It's usually sour grapes for those that despise the Villanelle. If you can't write one, you hate them. To me, it's the equivalent of saying, I hate music because they have choruses and repeat themselves a lot and have so little to say, NOT... As it is based on folk song, they both sing and dance for the reader, while the braided repeats strengthen the sense of both. It's like a lovely waltz when done right.

Alright, enough editorializing and on to your piece: What you pulled off is a rather disguised Villanelle poem that does not blatantly exploit the form with hard stops at the end of each line. Additonally, you pulled off a skillful use of enjambment of continuous lines. You also selected soft rhymes in ‘ew’ and ‘ime’ verses ones that can exhibit onomataopeia like ‘ish’ or ‘ash’ or harder ‘ide’s and ‘ight’s. In doing so, your Villanelle did not seem to sing and dance with the full potential of the form. This may have been deliberate on your part. Some of the loss of lyrical character may have been due in part to the single stanza structure, but perhaps the two syllable difference in the keystone repeats ( 8 vs. 6). Maybe ‘The things that I draw become true’? or something like it, would help the flow for me.

I thought of the cartoon Winky-Dink, where the story stopped and the viewer was to draw the kid out of trouble on a transparent screen applied to the TV screen. Many parents did not buy the screen for their sets and their little rats drew right on the TV itself in markers or crayon!

I'll have to post a Villanelle now!

[bena]

I take offense, Chris! Music and poetry are completely different, repetition in music is necessary, while in poetry it is more or less redundancy. (this is speaking in general, not directed at this poem at all) And I say this all light-heartedly, don't worry. I came back to admit I am totally wrong!

When I said I loved that book....(not knowing it was a show---I'm a dumb american, we just got BBC last year) I misspoke because the book I was thinking about was Harold and the Purple Crayon. Same in many ways, but not the same.

Maybe I should flex my muscles and attempt a Villanelle....

(((sorry to semi-hijack the thread, just wanted to say that about the book)))

[ChristopherSea]

Oh pooh, lyrical poetry is called such because it is musical!

Also, there are dozens of poetry forms with repeats. You need to go back to poetry school girl! Now change into a short plaid shirt, Oxford shirt and saddle shoes!!

[Erthona]

"It's usually sour grapes for those that despise the Villanelle. If you can't write one, you hate them."

Or it could be that the Villanelle is just a poor form for English, it is after all a French form.

Using your logic: I hate shit. Therefore my hate is due to jealousy because I am unable to create shit.

Maybe you should take a class in logical argument.


Dale

[ChristopherSea]

"It's usually sour grapes for those that despise the Villanelle. If you can't write one, you hate them."

Or it could be that the Villanelle is just a poor form for English, it is after all a French form.

Using your logic: I hate shit. Therefore my hate is due to jealousy because I am unable to create shit.

Maybe you should take a class in logical argument.


Dale

I wasn't making a logical argument. It was just my opinion, as valid as anyone else's. The 'schooling' was me joking about with bena. Nonetheless, there are millions of lyrical poems in dozens of poetry forms incorporating line repetition and there is no argument. If someone is not aware of it, then they do need to learn as much.

[bena]

OOoo cat fight between Lions! When did I go to poetry school...man that was like, 25 years ago. I guess it's just personal opinion that I despise "form" poetry. I'm a rebel! I was born in the 60's after all. Todd, apologies for the thread hijack, I think it's been my fault. I wonder, though, if I can write a villanelle in french...now there's a challenge...

[ChristopherSea]

OOoo cat fight between Lions! When did I go to poetry school...man that was like, 25 years ago. I guess it's just personal opinion that I despise "form" poetry. I'm a rebel! I was born in the 60's after all. Todd, apologies for the thread hijack, I think it's been my fault. I wonder, though, if I can write a villanelle in french...now there's a challenge...

Maybe we all should try to write one. I'll try one on!

[milo]

"It's usually sour grapes for those that despise the Villanelle. If you can't write one, you hate them."

Or it could be that the Villanelle is just a poor form for English, it is after all a French form.

Using your logic: I hate shit. Therefore my hate is due to jealousy because I am unable to create shit.

Maybe you should take a class in logical argument.


Dale

Most of the forms are from other languages. Probably not a great argument that they are no good just because they were founded in another language. I sure would hate to see this logic assigned to sonnets(!)

Anyway, i would probably hate it even worse if we used Todd's poem thread to debate the point.

For the poem -

I remember the original thread, it was probably my third post on this forum. Since then I have experimented with quite a few villanelles in a-symmetrical meters and I wonder if this one wouldn't work better as 4-3-4. It would be tough to tell at this time as you did stray away from meter in a couple places, i am going to return soon with my line by line suggestions.

---

OOoo cat fight between Lions! When did I go to poetry school...man that was like, 25 years ago. I guess it's just personal opinion that I despise "form" poetry. I'm a rebel! I was born in the 60's after all. Todd, apologies for the thread hijack, I think it's been my fault. I wonder, though, if I can write a villanelle in french...now there's a challenge...

I think most modern writers , especially on online forums, hate forms so i don't think that makes you a rebel.

On the other hand, i would love to see you read one of leanne's sonnets and tell me that you hate it.

[Todd]

Hello all, I appreciate all the comments. I live in free verse. I know though that working with form, especially if it seems appropriate to the piece, will help my writing grow.

I appreciate the comments and the advice. Thank you all very much.

milo as far as the 4-3-4 goes, I'm willing to try anything and see if it will work so I welcome any options you might think of.

Again all, thank you for reading and for the comments and critiques.

Best,

Todd

[ChristopherSea]

What is 4-3-4 reffering to?

[Todd]

What is 4-3-4 reffering to?

Moving from tetramater to trimeter back to tetrameter.

[ChristopherSea]

What is 4-3-4 reffering to?

Moving from tetramater to trimeter back to tetrameter.

Of course, metric footwork, Thanks!

[Todd]

I put a revision up. I hope it's a step forward.

[tigrflye]

Revision 2

The lines would shiver as they grew;
this dark slate world sublime,
because the things I draw come true.

One time, I sketched a girl I knew
with hands of silken mime.I don't understand silken mime
The lines would shiver as they grew.
Passion spent, I withdrew.because the rest is in iambs..and I believe passion is a trochee. PASHun. This line makes me slow down. Doesn't bother me really, I like this line if you wanted the iamb..maybe "my passion spent, withdrew"
There was no ladder left to climb.[/i]

The things I draw come true.
I began one, then she drew two:
a people touched by grime.

The lines would shiver as they grew
prostrate now, worship due
amidst the chants, the bells that chime.
The things I draw come true.

So, on this slate, I start anew
erasing details of my crime.
The lines would shiver when they grew,
the things I draw come true.love these last lines

I have liked this poem since I read it in a chess playing thread. You posted it on my birthday! It is a pretty thing to read. Like a sing song chant and I love the way it sounds. I don't understand all of it and I never saw the show (I googled it though)
I do get that the things he draws on the chalk board come true. He drew a girl.. had some fun..erased his crime. I don't understand why he is face down, worshipping amidst the chants and bells. Was the fun that good?

[Todd]

Thanks Jenn, I see about four minor corrections and one major one. I'm going to reassert pure 4-3-4-3 for rhythm and to fix key lines. The refrains will be altered slightly for the meter as necessary.

Best,

Todd