Breathe

[Erthona]

…confusing that which inspires with inspiration
you beggar your own generations
ending with a period
instead of an exclamation!


©2013 ~Erthona

[fim]

…confusing that which inspires with inspiration
you beggar your own generations
ending with a period
instead of an exclamation!


©2013 ~Erthona

Erthonia,
Compelling message. Powerful ending. Brilliant economy of words (I am envious) and excellent meter. The first line perplexes me (that is one of the aspects of the poem that intrigues me), but too often I focus on the thin layer of ice that covers the pond and not the richness of what lies beneath.
Nice job!
fim

[tectak]

…confusing that which inspires with inspiration
you beggar your own generations
ending with a period
instead of an exclamation!


©2013 ~Erthona

Well, it is not how I see my end, but my final EXPIRATION may well end with an exclamation. Something erudite, I hope. Et tu? Or was that it?
Best,
tectak

[Erthona]

Thanks fim. Yeah I guess you could say it is somewhat multi-layered. On one level I guess I meant it as the difference between the external trigger (that which inspires) and the "internal" muse, if you will. Generations here being used as "creations", i.e. poems. Thus referring to the poet who only is aware of the external, and not how that interacts with the "internal muse" to cause creation. Poems that are missing both sides are not inspired and thus end with a period. There are several other levels of which I am aware, but I suspect there are those I am unaware of, as the muse is generally in control of the depth. I know I have read poems I wrote from many years ago and find meanings there that I know I was unaware of at the time. Thank you for the meter comment, I try to make things lyrically fun.

Tom,

I would imagine you could not see your end without a mirror. "Et tu?" I was not consciously being autobiographical, but I suspect mine will be more as a whimper, as I have neither the courage nor the energy to do much else Yes, expiration is the subtext rhyme, or the implied extension. Very clever of you.

Dale

[billy]

it's almost a haiku okay, senryu
this is what i get. from it. inspiration is a concept. something that inspires is something that is an article. a real thing (even if it's a dream) ..i'll stop now. the last part was clever and i liked the piece as a whole,
okay i'm going on. if you confuse one with the other you'll have nothing to say or do of substance.

i give up, i liked it and see no nits.
i like the ... at the beginning and see the quote as part of a bigger idea because of it

…confusing that which inspires with inspiration
you beggar your own generations
ending with a period
instead of an exclamation!


©2013 ~Erthona

[Erthona]

Thanks Billy. Yeah I almost put it in the short form section. I think it actually comes closer to a senryu sans form, than something in English that incorporates the so-called senryu form, as equating "morae" to syllable is just so much bullshit in terms of what the morae actually does in the Japanese poem.

Dale

[ChristopherSea]

Without reading all of the other reviews or commentary, this struck me that it could serve as a summation of generation-X (the me generation), yet it can more than likely apply to a number of things, like today's rock music, as it may be inspired for the 'artist', its not inspirational to this listener (give me some names, if you've got em!). The 'confusing' contrasts motivation with revelation, motivation being punctuated with a period, revelation with an exclamation point. However, in my read generations would be either generation's or possibly generations'. Beggar is an intriquing choice of words. It can't mean 'defy' or 'go beyond' herein (in the manor of Shakespeare) or the period and exclamation would be reversed. So, I am going with the more colloquial, beg/ask the question. Breathe has too many connotations, but I'll do with manifest, as in, your poem manifests wisdom. I'll come back later, read it again and the responses and get an entirely different impression, ha ha... Cheers/Chris

[cidermaid]

Hi good read and like Billy I have no crit to offer.
For me I got a strong link with the text from a English parish Church service book. (I appreciate that this might have been the last thing you were thinking of…just where these words took me). It speaks of the state of the Church and those who would populate the world with faux spirituality. Week in week out they read of the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and speak of being inspired by such, but yet they are impoverished by their own lack of experience and outward expression and further still they "beggar" the following generations with their closed attitudes, (the period). Where now the Gloria or Hallelujah that there should be! The people need to learn how to breathe again.

Thanks for the read AJ.

…confusing that which inspires with inspiration
you beggar your own generations
ending with a period
instead of an exclamation!


©2013 ~Erthona

[Erthona]

Christopher, AJ,

Thanks for the read and the comments.

Christopher, I was using beggar to mean "make poor", or "to reduce to utter poverty; impoverish (from dictionary.com, def. #5), although I am only responsible for the first few levels of meaning, the muse is responsible for the rest So I could also see it as begging the question, as doing so would fruitlessly drain energy from whatever it was applied to, whether inspiration, or a generation.

AJ, Although I have no idea what an English parish Church service book is, I think your application of the poem to a spiritual problem, is energetically consistent with the intent of the poem, that is, I think it is a valid interpretation even if that wasn't my initial intent.

Dale

[Erthona]

Thanks Betralion. Yes, fear is often the roadblock to success, especially in regards to Truth, although they overcome their fear in the end. Usually we must fail to succeed. Unfortunately it takes a toll on our teachers I guess out of such patterns the idea of karma emerges.

Dale

[btrudo]

…confusing that which inspires with inspiration
good opening. I could read some subject/object separation and/or cause/effect separation here
though the later lines suggest that this is more simply just about writing as in the image that inspires is not the same as being full of inspiration. In other words, people can't write.
you beggar your own generations
beggar has implications of panhandling for me. So I get more sense of a leach here.
I did read your comments, Dale. The "make poor" fits. But in either case, does the poem really earn this in the sense of any sort of development? It's a common concern particularly with a short poem.
I do think that this could fall into the pit of being whatever the reader doesn't like about the world.
Perhaps the narrator needs to take responsibility instead of you.
ending with a period
instead of an exclamation!
so these go on without passion...
the last 2 lines sound good, but does it offer much more?
Also, does this poem contemplate the very thing that it's complaining about? Rationality has seemed to have taken over and it has confused "that which inspires with inspiration". The ending seems too neat and tidy. Of course, this could be what the poem really wants to reveal.

Tom had the read of life in this. I think that fits well with the use of the ellipsis.

I did read your comments. The point about the muse is well-said. I wish people would trust more what they originally wrote. The muse is right, though usually difficult to understand.

a few thoughts,
Bill

[Erthona]

Thanks Bill,

"But in either case, does the poem really earn this in the sense of any sort of development? It's a common concern particularly with a short poem."

Yes, I think so. If I had written it to be more mechanical it would be more obvious in the sense that B follows from A, i.e., one cheapens his creations (poems) when he thinks all inspiration is external and does not understand the interplay between the event and the muse.

"Also, does this poem contemplate the very thing that it's complaining about? Rationality has seemed to have taken over and it has confused "that which inspires with inspiration". The ending seems too neat and tidy. Of course, this could be what the poem really wants to reveal."

Just because a poem is more or less clear, or simple, doesn't mean it is not inspired. At least my experience writing this was from what I call the muse, and was not mentally cobbled together to be clever in proving a point (which is not to say it doesn't come across that way). As to neat and tidy, I'm not sure what "too neat and tidy" implies. If you could explicate on that I would be happy to reply.

Hope to talk further with you on this subject.

Thanks,

Dale

[btrudo]

Compare the first two lines to the last two. I say both semantically and sonically the first two lines are much richer and deeper. So the ending comes across quite flat in comparison. I wasn't surprised either by the ending; the exclamation! didn't shake me. I guess I really want an actual exclamation! instead of just the word and the symbol and the hope that they will hold the weight.

But like I said, this might be the very thing that the poem is trying to reveal. This is what happens when the confusion is made and you go on and make a point!

The first two lines are really sharp and rich.

a few thoughts,
Bill

[Erthona]

Oh yes, I think I see what you mean... I think Yes it does runs downhill in order to demonstrate the point. However, I don't think ending on a low note is counter to the idea about inspiration, any more than is a denouement in a short story or a novel. For music to occur you need both the sound and the silence. As Aristotle pointed out, a drama must have a large part of comedy in order to be dramatic, and vice versa for comedy. For the poem to be all richness and depth, is to drone a single note from end to end. If you only mean you were not surprised, I would suggest you anticipate the words for the dichotomy better than most. Certainly the "end with a whimper or a bang" conclusion has been much used before, although I do not necessary consider that a bad thing, the use of "period" and "exclamation" are not in themselves a trite or cliche usage in my mind, but I will concede that the form of argument is much covered ground.
In my defense I think demanding a surprise twist in a piece so short is..well..rather demanding Theoretically your point seems valid (and I have certainly come down on that side of the argument many times in the past), but in practice I think it becomes the antithesis of what one wishes to achieve. However, I do think you bring up a valid point for poetry in general (I am not entirely sure I have responded exactly to what you have stated), and if you would like to continue to discuss it, I would welcome that.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Dale

[ChristopherSea]

Christopher, AJ,

Thanks for the read and the comments.

Christopher, I was using beggar to mean "make poor", or "to reduce to utter poverty; impoverish (from dictionary.com, def. #5), although I am only responsible for the first few levels of meaning, the muse is responsible for the rest So I could also see it as begging the question, as doing so would fruitlessly drain energy from whatever it was applied to, whether inspiration, or a generation.

AJ, Although I have no idea what an English parish Church service book is, I think your application of the poem to a spiritual problem, is energetically consistent with the intent of the poem, that is, I think it is a valid interpretation even if that wasn't my initial intent.

Dale

Much obliged for the reply!

[btrudo]

Oh yes, I think I see what you mean... I think Yes it does runs downhill in order to demonstrate the point. However, I don't think ending on a low note is counter to the idea about inspiration, any more than is a denouement in a short story or a novel. For music to occur you need both the sound and the silence.
In a fractal, every smaller scale is a reflection of a whole, so too you should be able to have denouement in a smaller work, though probably harder to achieve.

As Aristotle pointed out, a drama must have a large part of comedy in order to be dramatic, and vice versa for comedy. For the poem to be all richness and depth, is to drone a single note from end to end.
Very true. Contrast is a part of life. However, on a side note, watch out for Aristotle's endless categorizing.

If you only mean you were not surprised, I would suggest you anticipate the words for the dichotomy better than most. Certainly the "end with a whimper or a bang" conclusion has been much used before, although I do not necessary consider that a bad thing, the use of "period" and "exclamation" are not in themselves a trite or cliche usage in my mind, but I will concede that the form of argument is much covered ground.
Interesting, talking about cliché in terms of a poetry workshop becomes its own cliché. I really don't have a problem with much covered ground; it's how you cover the ground. Stars are brilliant and love is warm and fuzzy. And they're still worthy of words.

I'm going to read that ! as a period; that's how it comes across to me. I'm not suggesting you change it. Anyways, you seem to have enough sense to not be too swayed by this babble.

In my defense I think demanding a surprise twist in a piece so short is..well..rather demanding Theoretically your point seems valid (and I have certainly come down on that side of the argument many times in the past), but in practice I think it becomes the antithesis of what one wishes to achieve. However, I do think you bring up a valid point for poetry in general (I am not entirely sure I have responded exactly to what you have stated), and if you would like to continue to discuss it, I would welcome that.

Perhaps it was just me reading that first line and seeing a whole valley open before me and then I can only see a two lane road. This probably resides in me more than all the vast interconnections that could be. But, ultimately I can only give at best what I see.

just a few thoughts,
Bill

Thanks for the discussion. I firmly believe the discussion is where there is the most possibility for a workshop to give the poem some nutrients in the editing process.

[ScurryFunger]

…confusing that which inspires with inspiration
you beggar your own generations
ending with a period
instead of an exclamation!


©2013 ~Erthona

Ah, story of my life.

(see what I did there!)

Surely that 'which inspires' is 'inspirational', I'm failing to see the difference. Perhaps this is where I go wrong.

[Erthona]

Bill,

"I'm going to read that ! as a period"

Well if you are going to read things other than they are, I think we have gone beyond the place where I could concede a point and make a change However, I do understand what you are saying. Outside of this I think we are in general agreement about poetry, but I must remain hypocritical in this specific application. I look to Blake for resolving this paradox,

"for contracting our infinite senses We behold multitude; or expanding: we behold as one"

ps sorry so slow to respond, I do not have my own internet connection, plus my health does not at times allow me to respond quickly.

Dale
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Betralion,

Not sure the forms work, but if it is pleasant to you, you have my permission to use it in that context if you like.

Dale
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ScurryFunger

Thanks for giving it a read, and your comments.

"Surely that 'which inspires' is 'inspirational', I'm failing to see the difference. Perhaps this is where I go wrong."

Surely

There is the external process (the trigger, that which inspires) and the internal process (the muse, inspiration). To report the external event is simply to write the factual occurrence, to do so lacks inspiration.

Thanks again,

Dale